MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
- Feb 14, 2018
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This is a pretty inaccurate look at how trades work, especially at the deadline.
TSN: Sweeney praised by other GMs for work on TDL day
- Thread starter DominicT
- Start date
Fire Sweeney
Registered User
I don't know what is worse, Sweeney's draft record or the hundreds of discussion threads fabricating unrealistic expectations from these garbage players.
weaponomega
Registered User
You're making the mistake of equating draft picks directly to lottery tickets, but that comparison ignores a key factor: development and scouting. Winning a literal lottery is pure chance. But turning a draft pick into a productive NHL player involves organizational input—scouting, development, coaching, and even deployment. It's not random unless you're suggesting every team has zero influence and Pasternak, Marchand etc just happened to become elite by luck.
Of course, draft picks carry risk, but so does holding onto a mid-tier NHLer who's peaked at ~20 goals. If you're not contending now, there's value in trading that player for a shot at long-term upside. Teams that fail to develop picks aren’t proof that picks are worthless—they’re proof those teams failed at the next step.
To use your lottery ticket analogy: it’s not like scratching a ticket with predetermined odds. It’s more like buying a seed. It can grow into something amazing, but you need to nurture it properly. If you're bad at farming, don’t blame the seed.
- Mar 3, 2002
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I've been critical of Sweeney for years but last three or four I think he's done pretty good. At some point this had to happen and it may take a few years to get back. Will be a few critical drafts now high picks that have be to successful and be careful with the UFA signings. Players have gone and that I accept.
Don't do the same mistake again signing over the hill big names (!) in desperation. Not even Marchand at 37. With a little luck this draft and next the Bruins could have two first round picks 2026, another in 2027 then two again in 2028. Could turn it around but I expect a few ugly years.
The Boston Bruins are 2nd best regular season team in the history of NHL. Only Canadiens are better. Time to revisite the accomplishment of winning in regular season play. It's too bad it's not rewarded like in European Soccer Leagues where it's almost bigger winning the league rather than a cup.
Being the best team over a 80-game season should be worth much more than it is today.
This year also we were expecting quite the opposite result. I don't know but most of us have been crying for a bigger & tougher team for years. Don Sweeney tried and to be honest we were quite optimistic and pleased last summer. The Bruins tried and whatever happened it didn't work. It was one very tough season to follow, even harder to understand. After many year years over achieving this was the worst I've ever experienced by far, even worse than 1996-97. The reward for that year was Joe Thornton. Will we get something similar this year. Hopefully
Don't do the same mistake again signing over the hill big names (!) in desperation. Not even Marchand at 37. With a little luck this draft and next the Bruins could have two first round picks 2026, another in 2027 then two again in 2028. Could turn it around but I expect a few ugly years.
The Boston Bruins are 2nd best regular season team in the history of NHL. Only Canadiens are better. Time to revisite the accomplishment of winning in regular season play. It's too bad it's not rewarded like in European Soccer Leagues where it's almost bigger winning the league rather than a cup.
Being the best team over a 80-game season should be worth much more than it is today.
This year also we were expecting quite the opposite result. I don't know but most of us have been crying for a bigger & tougher team for years. Don Sweeney tried and to be honest we were quite optimistic and pleased last summer. The Bruins tried and whatever happened it didn't work. It was one very tough season to follow, even harder to understand. After many year years over achieving this was the worst I've ever experienced by far, even worse than 1996-97. The reward for that year was Joe Thornton. Will we get something similar this year. Hopefully
After 2020-21 season Bruins had $30m in the cap space.
4 years later and not a single name is on the roster.
Another 4 year re-tool?
At best, this marks the fifth-worst season by a Bruins team in the past 55 years; at worst, it stands in a tie for the second-worst. And that’s without even accounting for how fundamentally different overtime is in today’s game.
No further comment.
No further comment.
Jesus this is scary bad. I know people say the late rounds are a crap shoot and they aren’t 100% wrong but not landing more than 1 decent player later than the 2nd round in 10 years is unacceptable.
Mr. Make-Believe
The happy genius of my household
Are you suggesting they held value in either of those deals? Surely you can't be.
The Bruins had to pay to remove their respective cap hits from the roster. They were negative-value assets in both of their deals.
Can't believe you would suggest otherwise.
Mr. Make-Believe
The happy genius of my household
Listen, I am and have been VERY critical of Sweeney's work during his tenure as GM. At the time of Cassidy's firing, I wanted them ALL gone. Out of a f***ing cannon.
So when I suggest that Sweeney et al have earned this offseason to right the ship, it's not as some some adamant humper of this regime. Far from it.
For me when one is at a crossroads, it's all about "what is your plan going forward?"
If the answer is: Stay the course or worse... Then f*** ya.
But the moves at the deadline this year showed to me that there's a sense in the room that a change in approach to team building is required. They moved on from long-term roster pieces who they felt couldn't be part of the team if improvement was the goal. Staples. Core members of the leadership in the locker room. It's a major change in direction.
So I want to see what Sweeney and company do with the coaching staff, draft and free agency for another season. Depending on what those answers are will determine if I want to see yet another. There's a real opportunity here IMO to turn things around in a hurry if they play it right. So play it right. I think they can.
So when I suggest that Sweeney et al have earned this offseason to right the ship, it's not as some some adamant humper of this regime. Far from it.
For me when one is at a crossroads, it's all about "what is your plan going forward?"
If the answer is: Stay the course or worse... Then f*** ya.
But the moves at the deadline this year showed to me that there's a sense in the room that a change in approach to team building is required. They moved on from long-term roster pieces who they felt couldn't be part of the team if improvement was the goal. Staples. Core members of the leadership in the locker room. It's a major change in direction.
So I want to see what Sweeney and company do with the coaching staff, draft and free agency for another season. Depending on what those answers are will determine if I want to see yet another. There's a real opportunity here IMO to turn things around in a hurry if they play it right. So play it right. I think they can.
mar2kbos
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- Sep 28, 2017
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But again you are projecting on something that simply hasn’t happened yet. Nobody has proven a thing yet. Joki may not stay with the team. He could leave via UFA and honestly after being on the Sabres losing all the time and the fact the Bruins have only won a few games since he was traded I wouldn’t blame him for going to a more competitive team. Same with any UFA. People aren’t understanding the damage to the organization with the steep performance drop off will scare guys away or require more money thrown at a UFA.
Milly has known issues with consistency. Right now he is and probably will be no better than Coyle
Lysell while seeing some better play recently isn’t a sure thing. I believe Minten probably has a better chance of sticking because of his well rounded game. Not seeing elite talent from him and his stats show that most likely a dependable third liner which I am fine with
Knut and Lauko are fourth liners that can spot duty third line.
They have a glut of players that all could be third fourth liners.
All I am saying is until these younger players establish themselves and the draft picks are a hit I can’t praise Sweeney yet. He owns the scout departments too so if they miss on pro players and scouts that’s also on Sweeney.
So it’s not about being positive or negative on Sweeney more than I rather simply wait and see how this all shakes out because this is his first serious rebuild.
mar2kbos
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right because no one goes back in time and looks at who was taken in the draft after trading players right? We never see an analyst do that comparison. Ok
MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
- Feb 14, 2018
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You evaluate the trade separately from what player you used that pick on. It’s not that hard.
I am Bettman
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- May 23, 2022
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Ullmark turned into a first and won a vezina here, well worth the signing. Carlo just got us a first and a good prospect after years of serviceable play. Reilly was a bust. Hall was good while he was here. Frederic got us a second and was pretty good for two years before this one. Forbort was a solid penalty killer for us. Haula got us Zacha so not sure what you are complaining about.After 2020-21 season Bruins had $30m in the cap space.
Sweeney had used it all to re-sign Hall, Carlo, Reilly, Frederic and to sign UFAs in Ullmark, Foligno, Forbort, Haula and Nosek.
4 years later and not a single name is on the roster.
Another 4 year re-tool?
Out:
Ullmark, Carlo, Frederic, Haula
In:
1st rounder 2024
1st rounder 2026
Fraser Minten
Pavel Zacha
Mark Kastelic
2nd round pick
Seems pretty reasonable.
- Jan 29, 2003
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As a personal aside….seeing you post the date July 4, brought the first smile to my face during this dreary, brutally stressful (work related) week, because on July 4th I’ll be jn DC watching the Sox-Nationals and then celebrating the USA’s 250th anniversary, hopefully from a roof top restaurant for the fireworks.
(To those inclined, please save the negative comments about the Sox, the country or my choice of a weekend away).
Thanks!
mar2kbos
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Whether you change the analogy or not. Sweeney also is part of that development. He advises the prospects on training, he hires the coaches, etc. He hired the scouts that told him to take a certain player. That is on him too.
You are basically telling me if he picked a guy projected to go in the second round with his first round pick and if that player doesn’t grow the way they expect it’s on the player? That’s what I mean about he has parts that in all of this. You can’t let Sweeney off the hook. His bet on players he picks up has to pay off.
mar2kbos
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But you still can’t be negative or positive on Sweeney because we simply don’t know how it will shake out. If it’s simply thank you sir for giving us a chance to rebuild and then screwing up that same rebuild kind of makes it a net 0 at that point isn’t it?
Because of all cap space spent Bruins had to sign Bergeron and Krejci in summer 2022 to a cap penalty contracts. The result was no cap space in summer 2023 to sign either Orlov or Bertuzzi and wasting another 1st pick on rental.
MarchysNoseKnows
Big Hat No Cattle
- Feb 14, 2018
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If that’s the case you can’t evaluate anything for years and years.
You look at the return he got. Minten and a first is very good value for Carlo. A second is excellent value for Frederic. Others around the league say it was a great deadline for Sweeney, it’s ok to say that.
Then you see how they draft, of course keeping in mind where they are picking (lol) and again evaluating at the time and along the way, not six years later.
Etc.
weaponomega
Registered User
I’m not saying you let a GM off the hook if the picks flop. I’m saying the value of a draft pick lies in the potential and the organization’s ability to develop that potential. If they fail, it’s a development failure, not a flaw in the idea of trading for picks (lottery ticket...).
You can't say it's “just a lottery ticket” and then also say the GM has accountability. That proves it's not pure chance. It’s a calculated rsik not a coin flip.
TP70BruinsCup
Let’s Go Bruins👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I think Sweeney did a good job at the deadline but I wish Brad had of stayed. Sentimental more than anything
With that he has one year left on his contract. I think if they were going to fire him they would have by now. When his time does end with the Bruins he will get another job easily. He’s a smart guy and well respected around the league. That being said I think the Bruins need to move on from him and Neely too. It’s time. They won’t but IMO it’s time. Fresh new takes on everything. It worked when we had Chia and Claude. Time for new people. I do agree with those that have said it would be interesting though to see Sweeney perform without Neely as I think what Cam says and what happens at times are two different things (ie: wanting to get faster then signing 28 and 91……….)
With that he has one year left on his contract. I think if they were going to fire him they would have by now. When his time does end with the Bruins he will get another job easily. He’s a smart guy and well respected around the league. That being said I think the Bruins need to move on from him and Neely too. It’s time. They won’t but IMO it’s time. Fresh new takes on everything. It worked when we had Chia and Claude. Time for new people. I do agree with those that have said it would be interesting though to see Sweeney perform without Neely as I think what Cam says and what happens at times are two different things (ie: wanting to get faster then signing 28 and 91……….)
After 2020-21 season Bruins had $30m in the cap space.
Sweeney had used it all to re-sign Hall, Carlo, Reilly, Frederic and to sign UFAs in Ullmark, Foligno, Forbort, Haula and Nosek.
4 years later and not a single name is on the roster.
Another 4 year re-tool?
Ullmark played great for 3 seasons and they traded him for a #1, and some pieces
Huala played well and they dealt him for Zach who has been complete steal
Hall and Foligno did ok and were traded for cap space
Carlo did well and was traded for a good prospect and a first round pick.
Reilly disappointed, Forbert was ok, and left as a FA .
Guys are not around forever in this league. In the end Sweeney's class was able to contribute to multiple playoff teams, including the best regular season team in league history, and also turn now into the next generation of Bruins players. Considering that year a failure in any way seems absurd to me
22Brad Park
Registered User
Yea I get that feeling but if that trade turns into Florida's 2028 1st rounder I think it's a great trade.Its a 2027 2nd now so all in all not bad for a team trying to fix things .
Zacha's 1 goal in 20 playoff games is steal? He can't keep up the high tempo in the playoffs. He is lost without Pasta.
Foligno was injured and absolute garbage the 1st year
Reilly was another overpaid garbage
Forbort was overpaid bottom pair D
If Reilly or Forbort were any good why did the Bruins trade for H. Lindholm in March 2022 and Orlov in Feb 2023 then?
Over the volcano
Registered User
Not sure that missing out on signing Orlov to his 7.5 mil/year deal or giving Bertuzzi to his 5+ is all that damning for Sweeney.
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