Sweden is not a hockey power anymore

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

it's a shame that we can only guess it but will probably never see this to be decided on ice once again...

That's sad. NHL players could compete and possibly win anything in Olympics, only before their drafts and NHL contracts, or after their active NHL careers.

That means we must get used to see these Euro-heavy motley Olympic rosters combined from youngsters, rejects, neverheards, 8th rounders, and NT-grandpas. It only comes then to who can assemble best team from such material to win it all. The ultimate prestige of Olympics itself doesn't take hit from it.

 

[Yenn 22]

Olympics as a concept is highly overrated. And I for one am happy that the NHL doesn’t bend over to the corrupt money hungry shit that the IOC is. Albeit the NHL’s motivations aren’t exactly noble, I’m still glad.

OK, I agree there is something on it.. but still, it is probably best chance to see full strength national teams competition, which we miss so much.. Why can't we have it at least once per couple of years... How many times we saw full strength national teams tournament during McDavid era?

 

[Eye of Ra]

No. There isn't anything that says Sweden would be ahead of Finland right now. Do you guys even have a coach? Let me remind me you of 2019. You had at least half of your best NHL-players and you didn't manage to beat a Finnish team without NHL & KHL players. These last eight years Finland have 3 gold and one bronze in the WJC´s. What about Sweden? Three silver and one bronze. You are just completely wrong.

yes finland is clearly much better than sweden. finland is so far ahead that finland without nhlers is stronger than swedens best possible team with nhlers. too many people live in the past. sweden where top 5 from 50s to 2018. so it makes sense people still think sweden is a power. but we are not.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

IMO, Sweden, with a 'best on best' roster is certainly a hockey power!

 

[Eye of Ra]

That was a 2nd tier tournament.


Second tier tournament.


2nd tier tournament.


This is a legit point... oh no, wait... it's just another 2nd tier tournament.

well. wjc is not going well. neither was last best on best, 2016 world cup where we got kicked out by a gimmic team "team europe". 2017 and 2018 we had almost best on best team aswell, but in world championship, we where struggling both tournaments. And in 2019 WC with many NHLers we had no chance. you also have to take a look at the players sweden have in nhl, in no way are they better than the players canada, usa, russia, finland, czechia, germany, swizerland, slovakia, belarus and denmark have.

 

[Jugitsu]

OK, I agree there is something on it.. but still, it is probably best chance to see full strength national teams competition, which we miss so much.. Why can't we have it at least once per couple of years... How many times we saw full strength national teams tournament during McDavid era?

I agree. We need a best on best tournament. But it doesn’t have to be the Olympics.

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

yes finland is clearly much better than sweden. finland is so far ahead that finland without nhlers is stronger than swedens best possible team with nhlers. too many people live in the past. sweden where top 5 from 50s to 2018. so it makes sense people still think sweden is a power. but we are not.

You're too pessimistic. Swedish tradition is something that will overcome temporary struggles. Hell! You even sent Kurt Lindström to Finland to give a last push to grow Finnish hockey program.

Maybe we should send Jukka Jalonen as for our turn. Unfortunately it seems he won't be free in a near future as if his recent success rate continues few tournament further he will be likely nominated Finnish NT Head Coach for the life time by The Federation, parliament, his post coded to the constitution of the republic.

 

[Eye of Ra]

IMO, Sweden, with a 'best on best' roster is certainly a hockey power!

did not show in world cup 2016. nor in worlds 2017, 2018 and 2019 where we had almost our best possible team and still struggled like hell.

 

[Eye of Ra]

If you're just going by a mixture of straight up NHL best players and up and coming youngsters the list is like this

Canada
Russia
USA
Finland
Sweden

So they are still a top 5 hockey power

what makes sweden better than slovakia, czechia, germany, switzerland, denmark, belarus? we done worse than them since 2018. cant live on old merits. we dont have any lidström anymore or peter forsberg, mats sundin, we dont have world class players. you can find world class players in slovakia, czechia, germany, switzerland, denmark, belarus.

 

[THE JAM]

Losing Culture - losing most of the important games - swedes have now gotten used to that (like e g the czechs in more than a decade)

 

[TheGreatOne11]

More like:
Canada
USA
Russia
Sweden
Finland

Based on current players in NHL and draft rankings.

USA is very close to Russia u almost out them tied for second, but I still give the edge of this year to Russia, mostly due to Our still killing it, the best goalie in the league and also that Russian kid coming up in the draft soon which is going to rival Bedard.

So yeah they are still slightly above USA, but USA is coming like a freight train.

As for Sweden over Finland I have to disagree that Finland has performed better and has very good young guns coming up, still close between the two countries though.

 

[Eye of Ra]

so the argument is that sweden is still good becuse we where good in the 90s. and becuse we have many nhlers. and becuse we won 2017 and 2018.

it makes zero sense. 90s is past. so is 2017 and 2018 which by the way we where lucky and struggled as hell. and the only reason we have many nhlers is becuse of our past generations that where legit good, so the current generation gets overated just becuse they are from sweden. we dont have any players which is on the level of lidström, zetterberg, sedins, sundin, forsberg etc any more.

also SHL is not even a good league. 2018 og and 2022 og is showing this. and the fact that our players from shl always suck in wc and last place year after year in eht. doing crap in wjc too. nobody cares about the gimmic tournament called champions league. SHL is not even top 5 in europe.

swedens decline in hockey reminds so much of handball...we where top 3 in world in handball beetween 1988 - 2002. then we turned into shit and still are. "sweden have sports culture and will recover" does not work as an argument, we have not become good again in handball so i doubt we will recover in ice hockey. we are only good in bandy and floorball right now.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Losing Culture - getting used to losing most of the important games - swedes have now gotten used to that (like e g the czechs in more than a decade)

no. its not that. we are not good enough. our players is not good enough. thats the reason.

and dont start to bring up "well sweden have bad coach thats why hohoho". yeah right. how is grönborg, monten and garpenlöv even bad coaches? what makes them bad? we are gonna struggle under hävelid and hallam aswell. perhaps then people will understand that we are shit, and its not a coaching problem.

take the gold tomorrow!

 

[ManWithNoName]

I think we can all agree that we have dropped a few spots on the world ranking since the golden days of Foppa, Sudden, Lidas etc.

Finland has clearly passed us the last couple of years with Barkov, Aho, Laine and so on but I still feel we have a bright future with Raymond, Holtz, Höglander, Eklund and Wallstedt. We’ll have to give it a few years but we’ll be back for sure.

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

what makes sweden better than slovakia, czechia, germany, switzerland, denmark, belarus? we done worse than them since 2018. cant live on old merits. we dont have any lidström anymore or peter forsberg, mats sundin, we dont have world class players. you can find world class players in slovakia, czechia, germany, switzerland, denmark, belarus.

Those names give still me chills after all these years.

Sundin, Forsberg, Näslund, Alfredsson, Jönsson, Lidström, Axelsson... and so on.

Did they all disappeared somewhere? Did they lost their interest in Hockey? Are they all unable to mentor younger generations?

Do not despair, bro!

 

[Elias40]

No. There isn't anything that says Sweden would be ahead of Finland right now. Do you guys even have a coach? Let me remind me you of 2019. You had at least half of your best NHL-players and you didn't manage to beat a Finnish team without NHL & KHL players. These last eight years Finland have 3 gold and one bronze in the WJC´s. What about Sweden? Three silver and one bronze. You are just completely wrong.

This is quite controversial to claim that Sweden is completely bad. Yes, they don't have WJC gold medals like Finland, yet there are more draft Swedish players and Finland probably won't change that. Finland has better coaches, Sweden a larger base. If the Swedish team at the WJC does not win a medal or a gold medal but gets 5-6 players into the NHL as a stable part of the first team, does that mean they are completely wrong?
From the winning team of Finland in 2016, the following players are stable components of the NHL teams:
Aho, Laine, Rantanen, Hintz - world level
Kahkonen, Puljujärvi, Mikkola, Lammiko, Kapanen - average level
Juolevi, Niku - AHL level
Sweden 2020, third place:
Raymond, Sandin, Höglander, Broberg, Lundkvist, Björnfot, Holtz, Söderström - prospects with the potential to become an important part of the first team
Henriksson, Norlinder, Berggren, Fagemo, D. Gustafsson - ideally average NHL players
Today, some of Finland's elite players have become the elite of their teams today, let's wait for the Swedes from 2020 to turn out. How many of them will one day be an important part of their teams. And all this despite the handicap on the bench because of Monten.

 

[hirawl]

No one can really think Sweden's not a hockey power. Which makes this thread pretty odd.

 

[Morgs]

2nd best league outside the NHL, 3rd most players in NHL by country.

Olympic team would line up favourably against anyone but Canada. Some of the best young prospects in the league at each position. Strong draft class with ~4 first rounders.

Yep, time to relegate the country to D2.

 

[Eye of Ra]

No one can really think Sweden's not a hockey power. Which makes this thread pretty odd.

many agree with me, on different social media plattforms. But since we are on HFboards, i will give you 2 users from finland that agree with me: THE JAM and Georgeleafer12.

 

[Eye of Ra]

2nd best league outside the NHL, 3rd most players in NHL by country.

Olympic team would line up favourably against anyone but Canada. Some of the best young prospects in the league at each position. Strong draft class with ~4 first rounders.

Yep, time to relegate the country to D2.

if SHL is so good why are we shit in eht every year. why are we struggling in wjc, olympics and wc?

 

[Elias40]

if SHL is so good why are we shit in eht every year. why are we struggling in wjc, olympics and wc?

Will the NT coach choose the best of SHL at every EHT tournament? I guess not, man. The team at EHT also consists of players from KHL or NL.

 

[THE JAM]

many agree with me, on different social media plattforms. But since we are on HFboards, i will give you 2 users from finland that agree with me: THE JAM and Georgeleafer12.

I'm not from Finland / Winland !!

 

[Eye of Ra]

I'm not from Northern Estonia !

so where are u from. uganda?

 

[Morgs]

if SHL is so good why are we shit in eht every year. why are we struggling in wjc, olympics and wc?

Because when two good teams play each other its most likely a coin flip on who wins. A couple games don't define whether a nation is good at hockey.

Even if they're not good as a team it doesn't mean they aren't a "hockey power". Even with the Czechs and Slovaks pushing lately they're still not at the same level of any of the big 5 without sustained success.

 

[hirawl]

many agree with me, on different social media plattforms. But since we are on HFboards, i will give you 2 users from finland that agree with me: THE JAM and Georgeleafer12.

That supposed to be a winning argument? I lolled.

I didn't want to include the in their right mind in my 'no one can really think...' but I guess I should have.