Strome, Vatrano, Copp

[haohmaru]

Trocheck is SO much better for this team, particularly in the playoffs, than Strome could ever be.

When it mattered, how was that Strome/Panarin connection in the post season?

Trocheck wins draws, will likely score more points than Strome ever did this year, adds snarl, hunts the puck, etc...

No way do I look back longingly at Strome at the expense of moving this team forward. I liked Strome and what he brought, but Trocheck at the same money is a no-brainer.

As for Copp, he had a good, albeit short, run here. You look at his career numbers (including this year) and he's no match for the Trocheck.

And I'll take Kane & Tarasenko over Vatrano any day of the week.

Look at the Malkin quotes on the this team. If they can put it all together this is a very dangerous team.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

34 points, 34 points, 37 points

In 69 games this season so far.

I think we made the right choice not to waste cap space on them.

I said last year that Copp is just another Ryan Spooner and that we were better off not handing out an extension. Sometimes trade deadline acquisitions have a hot streak. It happens. It's by no means an indication of what they may bring long term.

 

[zlev]

Copp pre-injury and surgery was probably a better fit than Trocheck but he's been awful this season. I assume he will get it together next year and beyond but we didn't have time to wait for that.

 

[bernmeister]

Okay Bern, whatever. I'm not playing super deep GM, regardless of "assets" that 1/8 of the time turns into an actual "asset"..................well, I would rather have what we have gotten. Even if quite possibly that it's only for 1 year. Winning the cup is a win win. Almost winning a cup is a win, with either or BOTH wanting to finish the job that barely alluded them.


Okay Bern, whatever. I'm not playing super deep GM, regardless of "assets" that 1/8 of the time turns into an actual "asset"..................well, I would rather have what we have gotten. Even if quite possibly that it's only for 1 year. Winning the cup is a win win. Almost winning a cup is a win, with either or BOTH wanting to finish the job that barely alluded them.

Not for nothing,, but "whatever" is not particularly responsive.
In the words of Ringo Starr: "get yourself together now and give me something tasty".

Moving forward, if you have sufficiently deep roster, it ups your chances.
To put together and then keep such a roster, you need to build with youth first, vets second, not the other way around.
Vets' experience = extra salary $s which in hard cap league restricts roster

Dealing youth for rentals we are not keeping is just not good mgmt.

Remember, we got KAM b'c we had extra pick to attach so we could move up AT THE DRAFT.
Ya wanna go there x 2?
Need to have those picks instead of pissing them away.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Strome did score an empty net last night.

Too Soon

 

[Leonardo87]

Too Soon

Yeah, but he has already missed like a half a dozen.

 

[The New Russian Five]

We should have paid more for Vatrano and kept him for the 3+ he got.
Copp was a sugar high we were not extending in any event = waste of assets spent to acquire.
Concur w/bold

eff bread insisting we keep Strome. They should have moved him. If they couldn't get 2nd, then even 3rd/3rd+ I could more than live with.

Rs pissing away draft picks = stupidity that will eventually come back to bite in the ass, if not otherwise than certainly in opportunity cost(s). For example, the late 1st we coughed up for Copp could have been repurposed with add to get better valued prospects than we did, or even better later first pick.


Copp and Tro are roughly Coke + Pepsi to extent Copp = a bit bigger, tougher and Tro a better skater, but ballpark comparable.
But everything else, Tro is better player imo

Classic case of overvaluing draft picks. Rangers window to win something is now. This is as good as it's going to get as a roster with this core. So yes, you take a chance on it. And I'm someone who believes in accruing draft picks and being patient. But this is not the time to be patient anymore. We are firmly in our window now.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

They made the right decision signing Trocheck over Strome or Copp and they didn't have money to sign anybody else. Copp and Vatrano were good additions last year but I would much rather have Trocheck, Kane, Tarasenko going into the playoffs than Strome, Copp, Vatrano.

 

[The Gloaming]

Copp was an awesome utility forward who could play anywhere in the lineup. If the cap was higher, would have loved to keep him.

The others...meh. Vatrano could score from anywhere but if he wasn't putting pucks to the back of the net, he was a big liability. Tried hard defensively but some players just have no idea where to go.

Strome was a good soldier for us, but Trocheck is an upgrade.

 

[Fitzy]

Copp being the slowest forward on the slowest team in the NHL was reason enough for us to not commit money to him, all his other positive characteristics aside.

 

[will1066]

I raise you Trocheck, Tarasenko and Kane.

 

[bobbop]

In a vacuum, I like Trocheck’s game more than Strome’s game. But objectively speaking, Panarin paced 105++ points every year partnered here with Strome. This year he’s pacing 90. So this is not a cut and dry “look at Trocheck vs Strome pt totals this year” comparison.

I think a large part of that rests on Panarin. He has been very streaky this year. I wonder if it is the beginning of a long team decline. (I hope not)

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Copp pre-injury and surgery was probably a better fit than Trocheck but he's been awful this season. I assume he will get it together next year and beyond but we didn't have time to wait for that.

He Ryan Spooner'd Steve Yzerman

 

[bernmeister]

Classic case of overvaluing draft picks. Rangers window to win something is now. This is as good as it's going to get as a roster with this core. So yes, you take a chance on it. And I'm someone who believes in accruing draft picks and being patient. But this is not the time to be patient anymore. We are firmly in our window now.

At what point do you and others capitulate to the fact that 99% of the time win now = epic fail BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK.

Adding both quantity and quality of assets is only way to go, along with smarter personnel decisions

 

[PuckLuck3043]

At what point do you and others capitulate to the fact that 99% of the time win now = epic fail BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK.

Adding both quantity and quality of assets is only way to go, along with smarter personnel decisions

It doesn't work most of the time because only 1 team wins it all so the odds are against every team yet every real contender made moves to get better because they understand that when you have a chance you try to win the hardest trophy in sports to win. The Rangers did an outstanding job this deadline and brought in quality proven cup winning players and still didn't give up any top prospects or roster guys who were going to be here next year like Blais, Gauthier, and Kravs. I also think they will sign at least 1 of Tarasenko or Kane. I don't even know why I'm even wasting my time anyway because we all know you want a team of 23yo's and will never trade draft picks to get better. Lets just keep building for the next 3-4 years until we have a real shot right?

 

[cheech70]

At what point do you and others capitulate to the fact that 99% of the time win now = epic fail BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK.

Adding both quantity and quality of assets is only way to go, along with smarter personnel decisions

Window is next 3yrs including this one...then you recoup assets by moving 8-20-10-resign or trade 31....lots of options as we move into next window with 13-24(maybe still a head case)-72-79-23-4-93-Oth

 

[Kovalev27]

34 points, 34 points, 37 points

In 69 games this season so far.

I think we made the right choice not to waste cap space on them.

Trocheck Tarasenko Kane

Quite the friggen upgrade for a team that was 2 wins from a Cup Final

 

[bernmeister]

It doesn't work most of the time because only 1 team wins it all so the odds are against every team yet every real contender made moves to get better because they understand that when you have a chance you try to win the hardest trophy in sports to win. The Rangers did an outstanding job this deadline and brought in quality proven cup winning players and still didn't give up any top prospects or roster guys who were going to be here next year like Blais, Gauthier, and Kravs. I also think they will sign at least 1 of Tarasenko or Kane. I don't even know why I'm even wasting my time anyway because we all know you want a team of 23yo's and will never trade draft picks to get better. Lets just keep building for the next 3-4 years until we have a real shot right?

Try to understand this.
It doesn't work nearly all the time, why is irrelevant.
Your desperate irrational desire to disregard reality is not helpful.

Now if you ADD both quality and quantity assets, you can actively challenge to be the top seed.
Granted, games must be played and injuries are always a wild card.

But as long as hard cap = reality and there is no getting around, THIS is the ONLY way to create a cup finalist other than pure luck.

Again, you are not answering my question.
If you want another KAM, you need surplus assets to move up.

Do you want to repeat that and go there again?
Then do it bern's way and stop squandering assets.

 

[bernmeister]

Window is next 3yrs including this one...then you recoup assets by moving 8-20-10-resign or trade 31....lots of options as we move into next window with 13-24(maybe still a head case)-72-79-23-4-93-Oth

If we were/are careful bern's way, window could be 5-6 years

Kreider atm cannot be replaced anytime soon. Someone could show up next training camp or one after making that statement stale, but atm, that is not the case.

The key here now is to extend, not bridge ATM and Chytil.
Since bread is unmoveable, we should consider Shesty IF AND ONLY IF top young elite talent [Byfield, Sanderson] comes back, which is a thinkable real thing for a return now, not later when there is less term. Did we learn nothing by holding on to Buch too long.

It is a gamble, but Talbot + Halak both cheap with Garand coming in early 2024 can work.

And the Vezina level of ability of Shesty commands that from those teams, unless they want to languish while waiting for a top option to emerge.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Try to understand this.
It doesn't work nearly all the time, why is irrelevant.
Your desperate irrational desire to disregard reality is not helpful.

Now if you ADD both quality and quantity assets, you can actively challenge to be the top seed.
Granted, games must be played and injuries are always a wild card.

But as long as hard cap = reality and there is no getting around, THIS is the ONLY way to create a cup finalist other than pure luck.

Again, you are not answering my question.
If you want another KAM, you need surplus assets to move up.

Do you want to repeat that and go there again?
Then do it bern's way and stop squandering assets.

The time for gathering assets as your primary strategy is over. It's ok to give up high draft picks for quality players when you already have an outstanding core of players. You win championships by a combination of drafting, trades, and free agents. The Rangers as they stand now are as good as any team in the league aside from maybe Boston who still have to be considered the favorite. It would not be luck if the Rangers won the cup. They are legit good. You still obviously can't give away the farm but the Rangers have done none of that. They still own a first this year and have retained all of their top prospects. I like my team taking calculated risks rather than being conservative. I believe Carolina's reluctance to make a big trade at the deadline will be their undoing in a very tough east, especially with the injury to Svech.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Window is next 3yrs including this one...then you recoup assets by moving 8-20-10-resign or trade 31....lots of options as we move into next window with 13-24(maybe still a head case)-72-79-23-4-93-Oth

Exactly. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[The New Russian Five]

At what point do you and others capitulate to the fact that 99% of the time win now = epic fail BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK.

Adding both quantity and quality of assets is only way to go, along with smarter personnel decisions

Faulty logic. Most, if not all teams that have won the Stanley Cup give up assets at the trade deadline to win the Stanley Cup. In the last 20 years, name me three teams that didn't give up assets at the deadline and won a Stanely Cup. If we go by your standard of success the rangers will be a consistent playoff team that loses in the first or 2nd round. At some point, you put your chips in to give you the boost you need to give you a shot.

Also, you act like the Rangers have sacrificed their future. From what I see they still have 1st round picks for each of the next 3 years, as well as, Othamann, Jones, Robertson, Cullye, and Sykora.

 

[Peltz]

At what point do you and others capitulate to the fact that 99% of the time win now = epic fail BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK.

Adding both quantity and quality of assets is only way to go, along with smarter personnel decisions

If this team were to adopt your mindset, they'd never trade a draft pick and the best players in their prime on the team would always be aging out before putting it all together. A lot of picks to do not amount to anything for years if at all.

This team, here today, is in its window to compete. You owe it to the players and the fans to give them that opportunity. They went to the conference finals last year and have shown to be a far better team at 5v5 this year. Do you really want players like Panarin and Zib to play with linemates like Vesey and Goodrow going into the playoffs?

Players like Fox and Kane come to the NYR because they're known as a first class organization. Part of that is giving your guys a chance to win while they can. Not trying to flesh out the top 6 would be a shame considering the team we have. I'd be pissed if I were a player on the team and the organization didn't believe in me enough to get someone like Tank after the last 2 seasons of hockey they've played.

I do still think the cup is a long shot, but I'd rather the organization shoot for it now than place all of its focus on the upcoming draft. Let's face it - the cup is a long shot for everyone, even Boston. You need every edge you can get.

Planning to win a cup in 2030 by never trading picks/prospects is how you end up with the Sabres - a talented group of youths who still aren't competitive.

 

[bernmeister]

If this team were to adopt your mindset, they'd never trade a draft pick and the best players in their prime on the team would always be aging out before putting it all together. A lot of picks to do not amount to anything for years if at all.

This team, here today, is in its window to compete. You owe it to the players and the fans to give them that opportunity. They went to the conference finals last year and have shown to be a far better team at 5v5 this year. Do you really want players like Panarin and Zib to play with linemates like Vesey and Goodrow going into the playoffs?

Players like Fox and Kane come to the NYR because they're known as a first class organization. Part of that is giving your guys a chance to win while they can. Not trying to flesh out the top 6 would be a shame considering the team we have. I'd be pissed if I were a player on the team and the organization didn't believe in me enough to get someone like Tank after the last 2 seasons of hockey they've played.

I do still think the cup is a long shot, but I'd rather the organization shoot for it now than place all of its focus on the upcoming draft. Let's face it - the cup is a long shot for everyone, even Boston. You need every edge you can get.

Planning to win a cup in 2030 by never trading picks/prospects is how you end up with the Sabres - a talented group of youths who still aren't competitive.

I am too busy for at least a wk to respond to these and other similar ones
will hope to catch up then
but I do want to briefly correct one of the errors you represented.

If this team were to adopt your mindset, they'd never trade a draft pick

I specifically said one of the reasons you do not squander picks is so you can bundle and upgrade, as we did with KAM.
But you have to have additional high pick(s) to add to that 1st you kept.

Feel free to issue a retraction