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Stoll vs Richards

let's face facts....yes facts, both guys production are down this year.

last summer Dean had a choice to make and at this point his decision on Richards doesn't look good. we know that if Dean has a weakness it is undying belief in "his guys". i love Richards, but i honestly feel Dean made a poor choice when it comes to Mike and his long-term effectiveness.

this summer Dean has to make the decision on Stoll (JDub and Regehr also). i pray he makes the right decision this time. he can't make this from his heart, it has to be a business decision. he has better options available in MAN and he can possibly shop the UFA market and improve the roster without re-committing to Jarrett.

i'm prepared for them to move away from all three guys to be honest. Williams is the only guy i would entertain bringing back, but term and $$$ are stacked against him in LA. Dean must also look at a JDub contract only for the short-term and most likely below market rate to fit within the cap next season and beyond. any contract past 3-years imo just doesn't work for LA down the road.

Dean must begin turning over this roster and bringing up the guys from MAN that are ready. he has gone with essentially the same roster now for three years and it is apparent this season there are players in decline (not just Richards and Stoll).
 
Whiskeypete said:
Dean must begin turning over this roster and bringing up the guys from MAN that are ready. he has gone with essentially the same roster now for three years and it is apparent this season there are players in decline (not just Richards and Stoll).
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Yep, this group has had it's run.

And DL should be pretty happy overall that he can revamp the roster while keeping the true core guys intact, most teams do not have that luxury. He's timed things extremely well and it's going to pay off. Think of the spot San Jose is in. Our core has at least a few really good years in front of them, if not more.
 
Stoll is the most physical top 6 forward the king have. If he leaves they have to replace his hitting with another player. The Kings could sign Steve Downey as a free agent.
 
Whiskeypete said:
let's face facts....yes facts, both guys production are down this year.

last summer Dean had a choice to make and at this point his decision on Richards doesn't look good. we know that if Dean has a weakness it is undying belief in "his guys". i love Richards, but i honestly feel Dean made a poor choice when it comes to Mike and his long-term effectiveness.

this summer Dean has to make the decision on Stoll (JDub and Regehr also). i pray he makes the right decision this time. he can't make this from his heart, it has to be a business decision. he has better options available in MAN and he can possibly shop the UFA market and improve the roster without re-committing to Jarrett.

i'm prepared for them to move away from all three guys to be honest. Williams is the only guy i would entertain bringing back, but term and $$$ are stacked against him in LA. Dean must also look at a JDub contract only for the short-term and most likely below market rate to fit within the cap next season and beyond. any contract past 3-years imo just doesn't work for LA down the road.

Dean must begin turning over this roster and bringing up the guys from MAN that are ready. he has gone with essentially the same roster now for three years and it is apparent this season there are players in decline (not just Richards and Stoll).
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I totally agree, great post, but to the bold, part of the problem is...who are they? Shore, Weal, O'Neill? No sure fire NHLers there, and most likely not able to actually replace a winger like Williams or even Stoll in the short term. We have guys like Kempe, Zykov in the system, but they're most likely not ready for NHL duty either. Next year is gonna hurt, imo, unless a prospect can surprise us, someone like TOffoli or Pearson breaks out even further, or we magically get a cheap UFA signing on the wing. I think Shore and Weal are going to take spots, if I had to project, and holding onto Weal at the deadline tells me that. I'd love to see O'Neill get a cup of coffee or even guys like Mersch, Dowd, but still, who knows, lotta wild cards. But I guess we get to see our development system at work, eh?

Luckily these problems are mostly in the bottom 6 rather than the top 6. Our top sixers have had issues this year, but it's less because they aren't actually top sixers and more because they're having off years (i.e we aren't looking for replacements for Kopitar, Gaborik, Carter, et. al.).
 
sinister6000 said:
Stoll is the most physical top 6 forward the king have. If he leaves they have to replace his hitting with another player. The Kings could sign Steve Downey as a free agent.
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There is a guy named Dustin Brown playing for the Kings. Maybe you have heard of, or seen him.
 
Brad Doty said:
I totally agree, great post, but to the bold, part of the problem is...who are they? Shore, Weal, O'Neill? No sure fire NHLers there, and most likely not able to actually replace a winger like Williams or even Stoll in the short term. We have guys like Kempe, Zykov in the system, but they're most likely not ready for NHL duty either. Next year is gonna hurt, imo, unless a prospect can surprise us, someone like TOffoli or Pearson breaks out even further, or we magically get a cheap UFA signing on the wing. I think Shore and Weal are going to take spots, if I had to project, and holding onto Weal at the deadline tells me that. I'd love to see O'Neill get a cup of coffee or even guys like Mersch, Dowd, but still, who knows, lotta wild cards. But I guess we get to see our development system at work, eh?

Luckily these problems are mostly in the bottom 6 rather than the top 6. Our top sixers have had issues this year, but it's less because they aren't actually top sixers and more because they're having off years (i.e we aren't looking for replacements for Kopitar, Gaborik, Carter, et. al.).
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I feel that VV will be traded to find a replacement for Williams. Sekera might cost a bit more, but FA's are even more expensive. VV + a solid prospect would net a pretty capable player. This is far more likely than signing a FA, judging by DL's moves in the past.
 
I also like to add that Jarret Stoll is leading the team in minor penalties this year, woot woot!
 
Kings don't have anyone in Manchester to replace Stoll and the UFA center poll isn't great, Shore is going to have to have a break out playoff like Toffoli and Pearson did in 2013 to replace Stoll. Much to everyone's displeasure don't be surprised to see Stoll back on a Greene-like contract when everyone thought Mitchell would be signed over Greene.
 
Exactly. Shore can't even show he is a full time NHL 4th line center let alone a 3rd line.

Weal hasn't played an NHL game and doesn't have Stoll's size.
 
Shore's been alright. He'd be an okay third liner if he can put up some points. Seems like Sutter is just worried about playing a rookie. He doesn't seem lost in the defensive zone and pretty much equal to Stoll in the offensive zone.
 
Jeff18 said:
Shore's been alright. He'd be an okay third liner if he can put up some points. Seems like Sutter is just worried about playing a rookie. He doesn't seem lost in the defensive zone and pretty much equal to Stoll in the offensive zone.
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King in 2011-12, Toffoli in 2012-13 and Pearson in 2013-14. Sutter will play rookies if they earn it. Shore a played solid on the 4th line but nowhere near good enough to get a promotion.
 
CowMix said:
King in 2011-12, Toffoli in 2012-13 and Pearson in 2013-14. Sutter will play rookies if they earn it. Shore a played solid on the 4th line but nowhere near good enough to get a promotion.
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Over Stoll though? I would think so, especially because he would be playing with the likes of Williams and Brown. I agree for any other team (except BUF, EDM, ARI) he is a 4th liner or scratch.
 
Jeff18 said:
Over Stoll though? I would think so, especially because he would be playing with the likes of Williams and Brown. I agree for any other team (except BUF, EDM, ARI) he is a 4th liner or scratch.
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What has Shore done to earn the 3rd line center spot over Stoll? Its should always be up to a rookie to take a spot, not to have it handed to them. Thats how the Red Wings were so successful for so long.
 
CowMix said:
What has Shore done to earn the 3rd line center spot over Stoll?
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What has Stoll done to earn himself on the 3rd line? :naughty:

If Stoll does more and we start winning more, then I guess putting a rookie on the fourth line is not a bad idea. We are on a losing streak now though, need to try something different because it's quite clear Stoll is content on being a dumb ass. I just think if he can't change, maybe a lineup change might help. Shore was a scorer in the AHL, surely that can translate to at least bottom six scoring in the NHL?
 
Jeff18 said:
What has Stoll done to earn himself on the 3rd line? :naughty:

If Stoll does more and we start winning more, then I guess putting a rookie on the fourth line is not a bad idea. We are on a losing streak now though, need to try something different because it's quite clear Stoll is content on being a dumb ass. I just think if he can't change, maybe a lineup change might help. Shore was a scorer in the AHL, surely that can translate to at least bottom six scoring in the NHL?
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CowMix said:
What has Shore done to earn the 3rd line center spot over Stoll? Its should always be up to a rookie to take a spot, not to have it handed to them. Thats how the Red Wings were so successful for so long.
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Stoll is the Veteran, Shore needs to push him out of his spot, he hasn't done that yet. Shore is currently on the bottom six and is not scoring. The only bottom 6 players that have been scoring are Lewis and Nolan.
 
CowMix said:
What has Shore done to earn the 3rd line center spot over Stoll? Its should always be up to a rookie to take a spot, not to have it handed to them. Thats how the Red Wings were so successful for so long.
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3.25 > 0.925

Cap is going to be tight.... and if the choice is between Stoll or Martinez, that isn't much of a choice.

Edit: Didn't say Shore had earned the spot or he would succeed at the 3C position. He is going to get a shot at it because of the cap.
 
CowMix said:
Stoll is the Veteran, Shore needs to push him out of his spot, he hasn't done that yet. Shore is currently on the bottom six and is not scoring. The only bottom 6 players that have been scoring are Lewis and Nolan.
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Since you threw Nolan in there as a bottom six scorer; he's got 3 pts in the last 14 games, he hasn't really been scoring. Stoll has 2 pts in his last 17 games and is -3. Shore has 2 in the last 16 games and -2. Nolan's offense has pretty much been ass his entire career while Shore has put up respectable stats in Jr and College levels. I think Stoll has sucked enough for Shore's mediocrity to allow him to be bumped up.

To me, Shore has done enough and is just as good or even better than Stoll defensively. Shore may not have the stats at the NHL level but he has shown some solid defense at this level for a rookie.

I also didn't get to read the last part of your previous post so please disregard what I said before.
 
i felt last year and this season were going to be transition years. the 2014 Cup, well face it that was a surprise. i think winning the second Cup once again lead to a roster that was hardly touched going into the 2014-15 campaign.

at some point Dean is going to have cut ties with vets that he respects and loves, if he doesn't then he sets the team up for a slow decline into mediocrity. i feel that is what has happened this season. at the same time the guys in MAN (ONT next season) begin to get lost to either trades or lost to free agency. one can only wait for their chance and keep a smile on their face. a GM can't keep guys down inevitably, without negative consequences on the back end.

i would prefer to see them next season revamp with the kids filling the holes and having a mediocre season. in the long run it becomes a trial by fire, in which they are lead by the current core (DB, DD, JQ, Carts, Kopi, etc) and shown how to win at the NHL level. i thought this was going to occur last year.

i felt that way because the amount of vets moving into FA and cap space. this summer is yet another perfect storm to force this type of result. the cap sticking around $69-72M, limited cap space to re-sign FA's like Toff, Pearson, Jones and the white elephant down the road - Kopitar.

without Capgeek i feel totally unarmed to even begin putting together a plan and roster, but i think its time to start seeing the likes of Mersch, Dowd and others up. i would rather see these young men get their shot sooner than later, because it will mean that LA is re-tooled sooner than later. continuing to run with the same vets is just delaying inevitable that new players are coming.
 
On mobile so limited replying, but for those who want to tinker with lineups using money/contract info, see Telos' thread up top--he's done a wonderful job of keeping it up and that should give you just about all you need from a kings perspective.

If you need to involve other teams' players/contracts, nhlnumbers is good but you can also use an archived version of capgeek with the way back machine
 
Thank Gibson for Carter, otherwise it'd be true (Stoll as 2nd line centre).
 
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