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Stoll vs Richards

CowMix

CowMix

Go Kings Go!
Feb 12, 2006
5,687
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I get everyone hates Stoll but I cringe every time Richards and Stoll get compared because its completely wrong. Stoll is way better than Richards defensively, Richards can't play a physical game and would be consistently manhandled by opposing teams bottom lines. Richards had the worst goals allowed per ice time of the entire team, while Stoll has one of the best.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201415&sit=5v5&pos=forwards&minutes=50&teamid=14&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

Also look at TMGA60 and OppGF60 to see how many goals each of their linemates are giving up without them and how many goals the opposition usually scores. Stoll's linemates are giving up more goals playing without him and Richards are giving up less. Stoll is also allowing less goals than his opposition normal scores while Richards was giving up more.
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Let's get real, Stoll is marginally better and it's only because he's better on defense. Both have no place on this team next season. Everything dies when the puck is on Stoll's stick and Richards is lost in the defensive zone. Kings need an aggressive and hungry 3C. Shore will take over at 4C (he looks great already).
 
Its all the same at the end of the day. We don't like our centers after Kopitar and Carter.
 
Trash vs Garbage

Richards is a gong show in the defensive zone and Stoll is where offense goes to die.
 
Richards only has 3 goals and 10 assists in the AHL, right? Do people who watch him there feel like he's "found his game" yet?

Stoll is trash.
 
I think Stoll's value is more evident in the playoffs, when games are generally decided by one goal, and Stoll can shut down the other team when the Kings are up by one. I think when Richards is paired with skilled wingers, he is able to set up the plays and rack the assists.

I have been pleased with Shore's play thus far, as he has shown to be defensively responsible. The points will eventually come for him, and I think he will be a great replacement for Stoll. However, going into the playoffs (if we make it) I agree with Sutter's mentality of using veterans over rookies and wouldn't want to use Shore as our 3 or 4C.

I would roll the following lines in the playoffs if our squad is healthy:

Pearson - Kopitar - Brown
King - Carter - Toffoli
Gaborik - Richards - Williams
Clifford - Stoll - Lewis
 
This team's most pressing need for next year is a solid #3. That's better than some other teams will have to deal with. If Richards can recapture that, fantastic. If not...there are options.

I'd kill for Soderberg but that's not realistic with the cap :(
 
DocWest said:
Do you watch him play or just look at the stats? How is his passing?
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Both. He's played very well. He is playing with great wingers who take a bit of the load off of him and can actually finish. Obviously it's the AHL, but he's shown many positives since being sent down.
 
I'd say Richards=Stoll skill wise. Stoll is literally invisible until he has the puck and fires it into the stands or the last two minutes when every fan is biting their nails watching him wondering when The Stoll Penalty is coming. Maybe he is a little bit better than Mike because he'll block some shots but everything else is pretty much the same.

However, contract wise, Stoll>>>>>>>>>>>Richards (unless he gets a ****ing extension). The dumb ass is gone by the end of the season while we still have 'Richards enormous contract.
 
Stoll is not the defensive dynamo people make him out to be(two years ago ? sure). This season Stoll has simply been average for a King on defense. Stoll is simply not hurting the Kings on Defense, doesn't mean he is helping the team at all.

Stoll's last 33 games played.

3G 2A 5P -4. That's terrible for a player that receives the ice time Stoll does(it's worse than Trevor Lewis territory).

J-Dubs production has nose dived over the last 20 games due to being paired with Stoll.

The argument is not Richards Vs. Stoll.

It's how do the Kings rid themselves of two unproductive Centers in the bottom Six; That are killing all momentum on Defense/Offense, and dragging their line-mates down with them(Stoll).
 
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I would rather have Richards, give him a shot back with the big boys, maybe he can start over.
 
Ollie Weeks said:
Its all the same at the end of the day. We don't like our centers after Kopitar and Carter.
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Let's be real, for some, not even Kopitar makes it on the "like our centers" side of the ledger this year.

Reclamation Project said:
Richards has played extremely well in Manchester.
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Mike Richards is even back to making those instinctual defensive plays to intercept passes like he used to do so often before, but doesn't it seem like he's still a little off?

I don't know whether it's timing, decision making, or what exactly, but he's not quite capitalizing on the scoring opportunities that he's generating -- at least not in the way you would hope a veteran NHL-player stuck in the AHL would.

Maybe you see it differently?
 
Reclamation Project said:
Both. He's played very well. He is playing with great wingers who take a bit of the load off of him and can actually finish. Obviously it's the AHL, but he's shown many positives since being sent down.
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I also watch the games and agree. Also the increased minutes seems to be helping his flow and feel of the game. Also, MR is being very professional about all this, at least on the ice. You definitely see flashes of his old self, with brilliant plays, and yet his teammates seem more excited after all this than him. With him it's more like been there done this!!!
 
Strange timing on the thread as it doesn't really matter a whole lot at this point. It's looking like a maximum of 20 games left for both of them. Maybe 27-30 games if the Kings get really lucky.

Now the fun part! If Lombardi is unable to move Richards in the offseason and the cap doesn't jump 72+ be prepared for your 3/4C to be Shore/Weal and the Left side of the D to look like Muzzin/McNabb/Forbort. :laugh: This one is going to be good.
 
Is Richards even going to be called up anytime soon? To be honest I was thinking he was only going to get maybe 5-6 games in the AHL and then get called back up.
 
Right now, I would take Richards over Stoll. But is that really saying much?

Stoll was playing pretty good going into the break. 14 straight games with a FO% of 50 or higher, a +1 in those games, and making things happen.

Since Richards was waived?

15gp

1 freakin point

In only 4 of those games did his FO% break 50.

a -4 over that stretch. 1 single penalty. He can't even catch guys to drag them down.

Keep in mind the team had an 8 game winning streak during this span.

That... is bad. He's hurting the team offensively, he's not doing anything defensively, he's not very involved in the play, and his faceoffs have been going downhill.

Richards wasn't good, but he was generating a heck of a lot more than Stoll does. That 11 game stretch where he was a -8 did him in. The guy has been a square peg in a round hole all year, while Stoll has played with far better offensive players, yet they have the same amount of points despite Stoll playing 15 more games. Think of all the golden chances the guy had where he missed/whiffed and looked at the ceiling. Stoll rarely, if ever, generates those kinds of chances.

Obviously much more is expected of Richards, he makes a ton of money, he's been an impact player in the past, and it's obvious he has conditioning issues. He was slacking defensively something fierce. Yet with all that, Stoll has found a way to play worse than Richards since the break.

Jeez, we're ****ed.
 
Primakov! said:
Let's be real, for some, not even Kopitar makes it on the "like our centers" side of the ledger this year.



Mike Richards is even back to making those instinctual defensive plays to intercept passes like he used to do so often before, but doesn't it seem like he's still a little off?

I don't know whether it's timing, decision making, or what exactly, but he's not quite capitalizing on the scoring opportunities that he's generating -- at least not in the way you would hope a veteran NHL-player stuck in the AHL would.

Maybe you see it differently?
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RICHARDS

I've not seen games, but I have listened to them, watched the highlights, and read CNS' recaps. I completely agree with you, Primakov!. Other parts of his game are coming back, but the finishing ability is still not there yet. Richards said as much in one of the Mayors Manor interviews with him. I would guess that this Manchester period is giving Mike the time and coaching to make the needed adjustments to his game, time you don't have when you're playing every other day with the Kings and traveling so much of the time.

STOLL

Stoll is a hard worker who puts in time in the gym and yoga classes to keep his body in peak condition. Why the drop-off in his game when he's only 32? Someone mentioned arthritis on these boards and, if true, could partially explain it, but I hadn't heard the arthritis rumor before so I don't know.

Fishhead, that was an informative post. I didn't realize Stoll's face-off percentage and point total had dipped so much, or that Rick was a -8 in 11 games.
 
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PJ Kings Hockey said:
RICHARDS

I've not seen games, but I have listened to them, watched the highlights, and read CNS' recaps. I completely agree with you, Primakov!. Other parts of his game are coming back, but the finishing ability is still not there yet. Richards said as much in one of the Mayors Manor interviews with him. I would guess that this Manchester period is giving Mike the time and coaching to make the needed adjustments to his game, time you don't have when you're playing every other day with the Kings and traveling so much of the time.

STOLL

Stoll is a hard worker who puts in time in the gym and yoga classes to keep his body in peak condition. Why the drop-off in his game when he's only 32? Someone mentioned arthritis on these boards and, if true, could partially explain it, but I hadn't heard the arthritis rumor before so I don't know.

Fishhead, that was an informative post. I didn't realize Stoll's face-off percentage and point total had dipped so much, or that Rick was a -8 in 11 games.
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Not that it means much but I believe the arthritis was confirmed after like the 2012 cup run.

edit: only thing I could find was from 2009
http://kings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=510128
 
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Stoll is good defensively. For the other team that is. See he neutralizes any sort of offensive chemistry on whatever line he is on. He is also good defensively for the Kings because most of the other guys on the ice are scratching their heads at the **** he does like skating with his ass sticking out, tapping his stick on the ice repeatedly before a face off and his patented push the back of the head into the glass move.
 
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