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Stoll/Vey

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**** the liberalization of hockey. There has to be enforcers and fights.
 
Johnny Utah said:
We are over the salary cap and Vey makes 790K with a 900K cap hit if he plays in the NHL. More than Nolan, Carcillo, King, Fraser, or Frattin.
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Yup. In fact almost every top forward in Manchester makes around 900k to a mil. We may get call ups only if there are injuries or it's late in the season.
 
Johnny Utah said:
We are over the salary cap and Vey makes 790K with a 900K cap hit if he plays in the NHL. More than Nolan, Carcillo, King, Fraser, or Frattin.
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Yeah you're probably right.... DL will go into next season without being able to call up Pearson, Forbort, Vey, or anyone else making over 500k... lol.... more likely is DL will trim the roster and free up space by moving Martinez.


FORWARDS
Dustin Brown ($3.175m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Matt Frattin ($0.488m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.273m)
Dwight King ($0.750m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.250m) / Trevor Lewis ($1.325m)
Kyle Clifford ($1.075m) / Linden Vey ($0.900m) / Tyler Toffoli ($0.870m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Robyn Regehr ($3.000m)
Slava Voynov ($4.167m) / Willie Mitchell ($3.500m)
Jake Muzzin ($1.000m) / Matt Greene ($2.950m)
Jeff Schultz ($0.700m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($5.800m)
Ben Scrivens ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,496,894; BONUSES: $245,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,048,106
 
Vey is going to struggle when he is eventually given an opportunity by the Kings. Plays a "lazy" game, not physical enough, no heart. Just my observations anyways. He looks like a diamond, but looks can be deceiving sometimes.. Just saying.
 
Kings need to clear -$86,894 of cap space according to Cap Geek.

I see one of Fraser, Ellerby, or Schultz being waiver or Martinez traded. At that point, I think Lombardi will refrain from calling up any of the high priced youth to save himself the cap space.

Lombardi always like to have a little bit of space so dealing one of those guys above and replacing them with a 900K does nothing to solve the cap dilemma. Considering Schultz, Fraser and Ellerby make less than Vey as well.

It's just simple math.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Kings need to clear -$86,894 of cap space according to Cap Geek.

I see one of Fraser, Ellerby, or Schultz being waiver or Martinez traded. At that point, I think Lombardi will refrain from calling up any of the high priced youth to save himself the cap space.

Lombardi always like to have a little bit of space so dealing one of those guys above and replacing them with a 900K does nothing to solve the cap dilemma. Considering Schultz, Fraser and Ellerby make less than Vey as well.

It's just simple math.
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this is with 24 players they have to get down to 23 so the 86,894 will go away when one of the players gets reassigned.

So they are not really over the cap they are over the allowed players by one. they will be under the cap by at least 600,000 so they could bring players up thru out the year. as if they bring up a player one of the other players either has to go on the IR or one of the other players have to get reassgined.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Kings need to clear -$86,894 of cap space according to Cap Geek.

I see one of Fraser, Ellerby, or Schultz being waiver or Martinez traded. At that point, I think Lombardi will refrain from calling up any of the high priced youth to save himself the cap space.

Lombardi always like to have a little bit of space so dealing one of those guys above and replacing them with a 900K does nothing to solve the cap dilemma. Considering Schultz, Fraser and Ellerby make less than Vey as well.

It's just simple math.
Click to expand...


Simple math.... Martinez makes 1.1M and is a 7th D.... Schultz makes 700k at 7th D... Martinez is gone.

then Fraser at 825k or Vey at 900? (900 includes his bonus but that will be left out of the "simple math" discussion) Since more then enough money's been freed up by trading Martinez there is 0 reason to start Fraser over Vey on the 4th line. Fraser's 28, not going to have a break out year and if I remember right wasn't getting a lot of ice time last year. The question is what's Vey going to do? Will he pull it off? Who knows, but there is one way to find out. Is Vey going to have to adjust probably. If Clifford/Vey/TT isn't working drop Lewis at 4c and put TT up a line and move Vey to right wing...

Is there an argument for keeping Fraser and not giving someone a shot at the 4c position? Asides from there's no money to bring someone up making 100k more then Fraser.

Also DL will leave himself the flexibility to call up Pearson/Vey/Forbort, Will they get call ups? That will probably depend on injuries like Pearson playing in last years playoffs. Clearing the cap space needed to allow for bringing players up more then covers a 100k increase from Fraser to whomever.
 
Hitman47 said:
You trade stoll and a **** load of cap space opens up.
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You trade Stoll and we aren't even close to the same team. Let's ignore leadership, intaligibles, penalty killing, etc and just look at Face offs and who would replace Stoll in the faceoff dot
Code: 
              Regular Season                      Playoffs 
Stoll            56.0                                     51.0
Lewis           48.4                                     39.8
Fraser          46.4                                     46.4

Do you not remember all the Sharks series when Stoll was hurt? It was murder in the faceoff circle


the cap space problem is very very likely to only be for this season, let's not overreact
 
Stoll is far and away the best face off man on the Kings.

Vey is a different player than Stoll. So is Fraser. Stoll is a combo of both, he has the size and physical play of Fraser but some of the skill of Vey.

Right now the Kings have two top end centers in Kopitar, Richards, who could be #1 on any team. Then we have Stoll, a #3 center, who could be a #2 on some teams. Then we have Carter who could be a #1 or #2 on most teams. Fraser, a #4 center, and Lewis, pretty much a 3rd line winger or #4 center.

It's tough to shift a one dimensional player to the 3rd line role like Vey, when Stoll can pretty much do anything. Physical, wins face-off, well liked in the room, clutch in big games, great in shootouts and a sick shot. It's even harder to shift Lewis or Fraser, who are terrible in face-offs to that position.

Kings will miss Stoll when he departs. Vey needs to develop a strong two way game and come up big in the face-offs if he plans on being the Kings #3 center for the next decade (which is pretty much no choice with Kopi/Richards on long term deals). He has shown he has the passing/shooting ability and can produce points, but a ideal #3 center is a Stoll, Bolland, type.
 
Hitman47 said:
That speaks volumes. You don't think it was right that Brown started off on the 4th line at 18. Shouldn't you listen to you conscience?
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The fact that you think starting an 8 year old in the NHL is equal to starting a 22 year old in the NHL speaks volumes as well. Brown should have been back in the OHL scoring 50+ goals and pinching puck bunny buns, not seeing more pine than a lumberjack.

Rhino 350 said:
Yeah you're probably right.... DL will go into next season without being able to call up Pearson, Forbort, Vey, or anyone else making over 500k...
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Only at first. As the season goes along, he can recall anyone he wants, because we'll have more cap sapce available. For each day that goes by that we don't spend to the cap, the more we can spend later in the season.

The Dingo said:
Do you not remember all the Sharks series when Stoll was hurt? It was murder in the faceoff circle
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Amen.

Johnny Utah said:
It's tough to shift a one dimensional player to the 3rd line role like Vey, when Stoll can pretty much do anything. Physical, wins face-off, well liked in the room, clutch in big games, great in shootouts and a sick shot.
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I support keeping Vey in the AHl another year as well, but he's not a one dimensional player.
 
Vey's only 22. This will be the start of his 3rd pro season in the AHL. Stoll will be entering the 2nd year of a 3 year deal.

So entering the 2014-15 season next year, Stoll will have 1 year left on a deal, which is prime time to deal a player. Vey will then be finishing up his 3rd season in the AHL, his second full season will Tanner Pearson as a line mate and playing 1st line center minutes.

Look how long it took Kyle Quincey to break through in the Red Wings organization (3 seasons in Grand Rapids)...Or even our own Voynov (3.25 seasons in Manchester).
 
I know that stoll's a warrior, but isnt it possible that we could be getting more from Vey if he was in that spot. I mean offensively. Guy puts up points. Top 5 in the A last season.
 
The Dingo said:
You trade Stoll and we aren't even close to the same team. Let's ignore leadership, intaligibles, penalty killing, etc and just look at Face offs and who would replace Stoll in the faceoff dot
Code: 
              Regular Season                      Playoffs 
Stoll            56.0                                     51.0
Lewis           48.4                                     39.8
Fraser          46.4                                     46.4

Do you not remember all the Sharks series when Stoll was hurt? It was murder in the faceoff circle


the cap space problem is very very likely to only be for this season, let's not overreact
Click to expand...

Also...

Who's that 28 on the 4 on 5 and then the 3 on 5 kill (2:28)?
 
Hitman47 said:
I know that stoll's a warrior, but isnt it possible that we could be getting more from Vey if he was in that spot. I mean offensively. Guy puts up points. Top 5 in the A last season.
Click to expand...

While losing Stoll's faceoffs, defense, PK, and leadership. And whose to say Vey would step right into Stoll's spot and score more? He could be a total dud offensively and then what? We lose all the other things Stoll brings that Vey doesn't.

I hope Vey makes the team this year on the 4th line, but no way in hell I'd take a shot in the dark throwing him into the top 9 with zero NHL experience over an established veteran in Stoll who was instrumental in our Cup run last year and even this year in the playoffs and regular season after he broke out of his early season slump.

Now on the other hand if Stoll still isn't medically cleared when the season rolls around then yeah I'd try Vey in his spot and keep Lewis on the wing.
 
Hitman47 said:
I know that stoll's a warrior, but isnt it possible that we could be getting more from Vey if he was in that spot. I mean offensively. Guy puts up points. Top 5 in the A last season.
Click to expand...

And Stoll one year had more points in the NHL (68 with the Oilers) than Vey had this year in the AHL. Based on your theory, we'd get more offense out of Stoll than Vey.

Vey has proven NOTHING in the NHL yet. Yet we are supposed to give him a prime spot on the team, at the expense of a proven veteran who brings a lot of little things to the table, because he scored 67 points once in the minors?

Let vey win his way on the team. Better yet, let him earn a recall when someone gets hurt and from there.

You don't find it telling that when Stoll was hurt the entire (minus one game) series with SJ Vey never once was dressed? You'd think if management felt Vey was close to replacing Stoll he'd have came into the line up then, at least once.
 
Exactly. Great post. Even Pearson got a sniff of the playoffs but when Stoll went down the Kings decided to shift Carter to center and make Richards the #3 center.

This upcoming season, the Kings are even more stacked on the wing so I would figure that scenario would happen again if Stoll is hurt or traded since Clifford, Carcillo, Nolan, Toffoli, King, Fraser will all be battling for the bottom 6 spots.

Even without Stoll or Vey....

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Frattin-Carter-Toffoli
King-Richards-Lewis
Clifford-Fraser-Nolan

Even then Carcillo is still a spare. Or the Kings could shift Lewis to the 4th center center.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Carcillo-Carter-Frattin
King-Richards-Toffoli
Clifford-Lewis-Nolan

Spare: Fraser
 
Johnny Utah said:
Exactly. Great post. Even Pearson got a sniff of the playoffs but when Stoll went down the Kings decided to shift Carter to center and make Richards the #3 center.

This upcoming season, the Kings are even more stacked on the wing so I would figure that scenario would happen again if Stoll is hurt or traded since Clifford, Carcillo, Nolan, Toffoli, King, Fraser will all be battling for the bottom 6 spots.

Even without Stoll or Vey....

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Frattin-Carter-Toffoli
King-Richards-Lewis
Clifford-Fraser-Nolan

Even then Carcillo is still a spare. Or the Kings could shift Lewis to the 4th center center.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Carcillo-Carter-Frattin
King-Richards-Toffoli
Clifford-Lewis-Nolan

Spare: Fraser
Click to expand...


First, I must say I do not see Richards, a potential Canadian Olympic candidate, playing on our third line. Second, although I agree with your post as to what our group of forwards will end up looking like come October, plus Stoll if healthy, I think it must also be said that we probably have little to no chance of actually winning another cup if we actually do end up using such a lineup. I really do not like this "double-down" mentality by Lombardi and Sutter by creating a bottom six completely devoid of any kind of offensive zone ability. Do we really think we can win by getting almost nothing from our bottom six? Do we really think it is a good idea to play half the game with almost little to no chance of actually creating something offensively?

I only bring this up because I think certain players in our lineup could be replaced with players we already have in the system, and it really makes no sense to me as to why we would continue to play players who, in my opinion, are inferior (King, Nolan, Fraser, Carcillo.) We need to get more speed into our lineup, and if the younger guys currently in the minors can withstand the physical game (Vey, Pearson, Kozun), then we would be MUCH better off IMO, both in the short and long term, playing guys who can both bang and put the puck in the net. Not to mention the added energy that may be infused throughout the lineup by playing younger guys getting their first taste of the "show." Seems to me we should be looking for ways to actually improve the squad from top to bottom. We already know what King, Nolan, Carcillo, and Fraser bring to the table, and IMO it's a whole lot of "winding down the clock" type hockey, giving the star players a break before we rely on them to produce all of our offense. I think we currently have guys within the system who can be better than that.
 
I don't think DL and Co. built a 3rd/4th line devoid of talent. Expecting Lewis (former first rounder) Stoll (former 20 goal, 68 point player) Clifford and King to contribute offense should not be a huge issue. All are capable of contributing well enough to provide secondary scoring in their roles, and have shown that touch in flashes as well, yet all produce at or below expectations. To expect 10 goals from King, Stoll and Clifford over an 82 game season shouldn't be asking to much, and Lewis should be able to generate 25 points as well.

I'd support DL making a move to get more offense into the bottom six, though I'd support him doing so at the expense of a guy like King, not Stoll.
 
DL cleared off some dead weight in Richardson and Penner and brought in Frattin and Carcillo. Toffoli will be back in the mix. Nolan and King need to have bounce back years. Fraser will be a UFA. There is a lot to prove with our bottom 6 and a lot of incentive.

By the way, Hockey CA, there is no way Kozun and Vey could withstand a 82 game schedule with there size. Even Pearson needs to put on more weight. The conferences and divisions changed and the Canucks and Flames are all big in the bottom 6. Hell, even Edmonton will probably play guys like Eager, Brown, Gordon, Jones and Smyth in the bottom 6 according to there boards.
 
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