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Stoll/Vey

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HolyShot*

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Now, I love Stoll just as much as the next guy, but is it safe to say that Vey could do at least the same offensively and almost as good defensively if he plays 3C this season? I know that Stoll is great on faceoffs and the PK, but I think we could get that extra push if Vey was in there on the 3rd. Vey is younger and less injury prone. We could use Stoll in a trade. I know stolly has a great shot, but vey could bring something to the table right? Let's hear what you got. I'm ready for it.
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Vey has hasn't proven anything yet! He hasn't been in a single game. Let's see if that boat can float first before taking it out to sea!
 
Vey for Stoll... no

Vey for Fraser... yes

line up of
Brown/Kopitar/Williams
Fratting/Richards/Carter
King/Stoll/Lewis
Clifford/Vey/Toffoli

if things start out a little rocky with Vey at C then swap bot 6 lines around.
King/Stoll/Toffoli
Clifford/Lewis/Vey

PS: is this the new roster discussion page since the last one seems more focused on the hocky wives/gf's?

PPS: Who is the hottest hockey wife/gf on each team? hmm what section would that fit on the main board under?
 
Rhino 350 said:
Vey for Stoll... no

Vey for Fraser... yes

line up of
Brown/Kopitar/Williams
Fratting/Richards/Carter
King/Stoll/Lewis
Clifford/Vey/Toffoli

if things start out a little rocky with Vey at C then swap bot 6 lines around.
King/Stoll/Toffoli
Clifford/Lewis/Vey

PS: is this the new roster discussion page since the last one seems more focused on the hocky wives/gf's?

PPS: Who is the hottest hockey wife/gf on each team? hmm what section would that fit on the main board under?
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TT and Vey on the 4th line? Nah. Put them on 3rd. Vey and TT aren't grinders or enforcers. You need some tough mother ****ers on that 4th line that can **** people up. TT is a top 6. Vey's a top 9. People talk about how Datsyuk and Zetterberg started on the 4th line, well this ain't the 1990's redwings. This is 2013 and this is the Kings.
 
Hitman47 said:
TT and Vey on the 4th line? Nah. Put them on 3rd. Vey and TT aren't grinders or enforcers. You need some tough mother ****ers on that 4th line that can **** people up. TT is a top 6. Vey's a top 9. People talk about how Datsyuk and Zetterberg started on the 4th line, well this ain't the 1990's redwings. This is 2013 and this is the Kings.
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When you run like the Kings and put a physical presence on each line you don't need a 4th that can run around and goon it up. Who cares if your 4th line beats the hell out of the other teams 4th line... I'd rather see Brown light up one of the Sedins.

Brown's hit against Sedin in the playoffs... never gets old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpEPilV3N8k

TT has the talent to go top 6 probably. It's just he's behind Williams/Carter.

Also I don't really care about labeling the lines. Is Clifford/Vey/TT a 4th or 3rd? is King/Stoll/Lewis the 4th or 3rd? Who cares let the play time and match-ups be based off what's working better.

For me Clifford/Vey/TT looks like a good line on paper and I'd like to see how it works. Also it is a way of fitting everyone in for playing time with the current roster.


And if the Kings are matching up with the Sharks/Blues teams that are bigger more physical with less offensive ability sure throw the Hanson's out there (Carcillo/Nolan) and play some old time hockey
 
Hitman47 said:
TT and Vey on the 4th line? Nah. Put them on 3rd. Vey and TT aren't grinders or enforcers. You need some tough mother ****ers on that 4th line that can **** people up. TT is a top 6. Vey's a top 9. People talk about how Datsyuk and Zetterberg started on the 4th line, well this ain't the 1990's redwings. This is 2013 and this is the Kings.
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And in 2013 they are two of the best players in the game, especially two of the best all around players.

That said, no way I start Toffoli on the 4th line. Vey though, totally would. Not one game of NHL experience, and some people are seriously considering placing him ahead of Stoll, a proven veteran that wins a lot of faceoffs and does well offensively for a 3rd liner.

Like the other guy said, let's see if the boat even floats first.

Vey should be taking over for Fraser and working his way up from there, not bumping a solid veteran who is a key cog in the top three lines.

I'd have thought the idea of sticking rookies like Vey (solid prospect but hardly a stud) into key spots without any expereince was gone after we won the cup, but I guess not.
 
kingsfan said:
And in 2013 they are two of the best players in the game, especially two of the best all around players.

That said, no way I start Toffoli on the 4th line. Vey though, totally would. Not one game of NHL experience, and some people are seriously considering placing him ahead of Stoll, a proven veteran that wins a lot of faceoffs and does well offensively for a 3rd liner.

Like the other guy said, let's see if the boat even floats first.

Vey should be taking over for Fraser and working his way up from there, not bumping a solid veteran who is a key cog in the top three lines.

I'd have thought the idea of sticking rookies like Vey (solid prospect but hardly a stud) into key spots without any expereince was gone after we won the cup, but I guess not.
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The bad part about having Vey on the 4th line is that he's matched against other 4th lines and their physical play. This could stagnate his development and not allow him to play his game. This is why I don't like the idea of using the 4th line to "break" players in or give them a spot.
 
To asnwerr the OPs Q with another, I'd ask if you'd be comfortable having Vey-Mitchell-Greene kill that two minute 5-on-3 in the 2012 Finals? I wouldn't, and still wouldn't now!

I'd love to see Vey on a 4th line hybrid role ala Frolik.
 
I hate when people think a 4th line Needs to be a goon line. If you can put 4 sexy lines up. You put them up.
 
Hitman47 said:
The bad part about having Vey on the 4th line is that he's matched against other 4th lines and their physical play. This could stagnate his development and not allow him to play his game. This is why I don't like the idea of using the 4th line to "break" players in or give them a spot.
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That's false for the most part. Sure at times 4th gets matched against 4th, but really, have you seen how often that happens?

Firstly, both lines, by definition, get little ice time, usually six to 10 minutes a game. They don't meet up against each other all the time.

Secondly, Sutter has been one to not worry about match ups much, if at all, so while he might not throw a 4th line out against guys like Toews and Kane, he'll throw them out there when he feels he needs to the vast majority of the time. He's always been one to reward effort, so if Vey et al are playing well, they'll hit the ice regardless of who is out there.

Thirdly, the only time that any coach will really try and worry about matchups against the Kings 4th line is the opposition coach, when the Kings are on the road because they get last change and it's much easier to create match ups. And you don't usually try to exploit the other teams 4th line with your own 4th line.

And fourth, if Sutter is really worried about another teams 4th strength being so worrisome, for that game Vey would likely get scratched in favor of a dude like Carcillo anyways. Odds are if Vey is coming in, he's going to be expecting to get the odd scratch here and there, whether do to poor/inconsistent play or concerns over being physically outmatched.
 
Hitman47 said:
Now, I love Stoll just as much as the next guy, but is it safe to say that Vey could do at least the same offensively and almost as good defensively if he plays 3C this season?
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Stoll, 641 regular season games, 67 playoff games

Vey, 0 regular season games, 0 playoffs games

Is it safe to say that? No, it's not safe to say it. It's iffy to say it.
 
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Luc Gretzky said:
To asnwerr the OPs Q with another, I'd ask if you'd be comfortable having Vey-Mitchell-Greene kill that two minute 5-on-3 in the 2012 Finals? I wouldn't, and still wouldn't now!

I'd love to see Vey on a 4th line hybrid role ala Frolik.
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Vey is not a vet so no i wouldnt feel comfortable about that. Kind of a flawed argument dont you think? And without stoll, does vey score the series clinching goal vs vancouver?
 
kingsfan said:
That's false for the most part. Sure at times 4th gets matched against 4th, but really, have you seen how often that happens?

Firstly, both lines, by definition, get little ice time, usually six to 10 minutes a game. They don't meet up against each other all the time.

Secondly, Sutter has been one to not worry about match ups much, if at all, so while he might not throw a 4th line out against guys like Toews and Kane, he'll throw them out there when he feels he needs to the vast majority of the time. He's always been one to reward effort, so if Vey et al are playing well, they'll hit the ice regardless of who is out there.

Thirdly, the only time that any coach will really try and worry about matchups against the Kings 4th line is the opposition coach, when the Kings are on the road because they get last change and it's much easier to create match ups. And you don't usually try to exploit the other teams 4th line with your own 4th line.

And fourth, if Sutter is really worried about another teams 4th strength being so worrisome, for that game Vey would likely get scratched in favor of a dude like Carcillo anyways. Odds are if Vey is coming in, he's going to be expecting to get the odd scratch here and there, whether do to poor/inconsistent play or concerns over being physically outmatched.
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You need a 4th line out there to create energy and to police the ice. The kings will roll the 4th line 6-10 mins /game. Thats not good ice time for a skill guy trying to break into the game. That kind of 4th line duties can ruin a guys development when hes asked to match up against the other teams goons. This will happen if hes placed on the 4th line. Sure, every line can have a PF and we can roll 4 sexy lines, but then you dont really have an energy line.
 
Stoll will play out that 3 year deal or get traded before Vey ever gets a shot.

No way Kings have room with Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Stoll, Lewis and Fraser all able to play center. Lewis and Carter are already playing wing because of center depth.
 
4th line Center is a perfect spot to find out if Vey can play in the NHL.

Gone are the days of the Kings ruining Kids with putting too much on their shoulders too fast.

Vey is being developed the correct way.
 
Johnny Utah said:
No way DS and DL put a scoring center on the 4th line. It will be Fraser or Lewis. That is not there style.
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There is no scoring lines/Energy lines anymore.

Toffoli played some time on the fourth line this season.

The Kings roll 4 lines.....They are just played different minutes/situations.

If Fraser is not up to snuff or playing poorly, DS and DL would have no problem trying Vey there.

And Vey is not just a Scoring Center, the Kid plays 200ft. It's just no one really knows if he can do it at the NHL level.

Lewis is a much better winger, keeps his game simple and out of the face-off circle.
 
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kingsfan said:
That's false for the most part. Sure at times 4th gets matched against 4th, but really, have you seen how often that happens?

Firstly, both lines, by definition, get little ice time, usually six to 10 minutes a game. They don't meet up against each other all the time.

Secondly, Sutter has been one to not worry about match ups much, if at all, so while he might not throw a 4th line out against guys like Toews and Kane, he'll throw them out there when he feels he needs to the vast majority of the time. He's always been one to reward effort, so if Vey et al are playing well, they'll hit the ice regardless of who is out there.

Thirdly, the only time that any coach will really try and worry about matchups against the Kings 4th line is the opposition coach, when the Kings are on the road because they get last change and it's much easier to create match ups. And you don't usually try to exploit the other teams 4th line with your own 4th line.

And fourth, if Sutter is really worried about another teams 4th strength being so worrisome, for that game Vey would likely get scratched in favor of a dude like Carcillo anyways. Odds are if Vey is coming in, he's going to be expecting to get the odd scratch here and there, whether do to poor/inconsistent play or concerns over being physically outmatched.
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This ^

You try Vey out on the fourth line too see if the kid can even handle the minutes (low minutes)

What good is putting Vey on at third or second line Center/Wing if the kid can only manage 9 mins a night ?

So you try the 4th line role.

Sutter did the same with Toffoli at certain points. Once Toffoli showed he could handle the load, and play at a high level.

Sutter played him more minutes and with better players.
 
Hitman47 said:
You need a 4th line out there to create energy and to police the ice. The kings will roll the 4th line 6-10 mins /game. Thats not good ice time for a skill guy trying to break into the game. That kind of 4th line duties can ruin a guys development when hes asked to match up against the other teams goons. This will happen if hes placed on the 4th line. Sure, every line can have a PF and we can roll 4 sexy lines, but then you dont really have an energy line.
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Again, I call bull.

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, many skill guys have started on lower lines and done great. You can even argue that Brown has down well after starting on the 4th line at 18. I don;t think that was right, but the point is it didn't ruin him.

Additionally, Vey is 22 and finished his second AHL season. Now I'd like to preface things by saying I think he should be in the AHL again next year, at least to start the season and work his way in as an injury recall, like Toffoli did. That said, if Vey comes in and starts by eating 6-10 minutes a game on the fourth line, that's fine. Odds are someone will get hurt on the upper lines eventually, and Vey can move up when needed. It's very unlikely that he'll play 82 games, getting just 6-10 minutes each and every game.

As well, as I said in the very post you quoted, it's unlikely that even a quarter of the time he's out on the 4th line that Vey will be against the other teams 'goons.' It's a falsity in today's NHL, most teams employ guys like Clifford, Cooke, etc., physical players that can actually play. 'Goons' like Westgarth and even Carcillo are more and more rare, and not even every team has one.
 
Hitman47 said:
That speaks volumes. You don't think it was right that Brown started off on the 4th line at 18. Shouldn't you listen to you conscience?
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I think the point is he shouldn't have started off on the 4th line at 18. Vey is four years older with two years of professional experience.
 
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