Steve Yzerman is not a good GM.

[Maurice of Orange]

Steve Yzerman has done a good job considering what he had to work with from the previous GM, who left Detroit with a bunch of overbloated contracts and very little draft capital to speak of.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

he did even less in 5 years than the guy who became GM after the Leafs had already drafted Reilly, Matthews, Nylander, and Marner

No shit.

What move could Yzerman have made that turns them into a contender since 2019?
Answer that in earnest and i will admit that Yzerman sucks as a GM.
As far as I'm concerned, as of now, Seider, Raymond, and Edvinsson were solid picks. Does drafting Wyatt Johnston and Logan Stankoven instead of Edvinsson and Buium turn us into a contender? I doubt it.

Wyatt Johnston next to Seider and Raymond?

Yeah they'd be better off I don't think that's really up for debate

 

[bleedgreen]

It's factually true, nobody else will say it because It's Yzerman but it is the reality of the situation.

The man has been GM in Detroit since April 19 2019, and in that time the team has played in a grand total of 0 playoff games and let's be honest they don't look they are making it next year either, in fact they look like they took a step back.

Other than possibly replacing Perron with Tarasenko NOTHING Yzerman did this off season was good.

Trading Wallman and a 2nd literally for free, and then not replacing him was an awful choice.

Signing Jack Campbell and Cam Talbot was an awful choice because all it does is create a logjam in net, and yeah I know Campbell is probably going to be in the AHL but that still leaves you with 3 goaltenders that all expect NHL minutes and you can't give NHL minutes to 3 goalies that all know they are at least backups at this point.

Yeah there is a couple good draft picks in there and I know people will point that out but again those picks have led to 0 playoff games.

If it were any other GM in any other city, in any other sport and that GM missed the playoffs for 5 straight years that GM would get fired.

But It's Yzerman and Detroit so it won't happen but his track record is his track record he's missed the playoffs for 5 straight years, the team has missed the playoffs for 8 straight years, their goaltending is a mess, their defense is an overall mess, their forwards are OK.

If this team misses the playoffs again and they look like they it will be their 9th straight year and Yzerman 6th.

At what point do you stop living in denial and admit Yzerman has done a shit job?

This is the 300th thread hating on Yzerman.

I think he’s doing a good job and find it amusing so many people actively root for him to fail.

He inherited an awful cap situation and it took time to clear that. They’ve been rebuilding and are have a pretty good bunch of young players. I don’t get why people stopped getting the concept of a rebuild.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

In the next couple of years, i think you'll be eating your words.

You think he's not good because it took him almost 5 years to:
disassemble a team
restock picks
draft prospects
add the right vets, AND win playoff series'?

Lots of teams do it namely, Colorado from 2017-2022, Pittsburgh from 2004-2009

Vegas was winning from literally day 1, I mean I don't expect that from Yzerman.

But yeah It's been done several times

 

[DuklaNation]

It's a fair criticism. Not having 1 top 3 pick during that time has hurt. I'm optimistic about their '23 draft picks.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This is the 300th thread hating on Yzerman.

I think he’s doing a good job and find it amusing so many people actively root for him to fail.

He inherited an awful cap situation and it took time to clear that. They’ve been rebuilding and are have a pretty good bunch of young players. I don’t get why people stopped getting the concept of a rebuild.

Facts Are not hate, the results speak for themselves.

His results suck.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Lots of teams do it namely, Colorado from 2017-2022, Pittsburgh from 2004-2009

Vegas was winning from literally day 1, I mean I don't expect that from Yzerman.

But yeah It's been done several times

Colorado drafted Landeskog in 2011, MacKinnon in 2013, and Rantanen in 2015. Anyone claiming that rebuild started in 2017 is delusional.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Yzerman is no longer universally viewed as a top GM in the league, which seems appropriate (if not a little too recency biased).

Its hard for me to look at what he’s done in Detroit as anything less than decent,
though. Not spectacular, maybe not even good, but not much below that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Colorado drafted Landeskog in 2011, MacKinnon in 2013, and Rantanen in 2015. Anyone claiming that rebuild started in 2017 is delusional.

2017 is used because it is the 48 point season that's about as low as it gets.

Yzerman never started with a team THAT bad.

 

[bleedgreen]

Facts Are not hate, the results speak for themselves.

His results suck.

They missed the playoffs by a point?!? It came down to someone else’s game didn’t it?

That’s not the suck. It’s far from it.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They missed the playoffs by a point?!? It came down to someone else’s game didn’t it.

That’s not the suck. It’s far from it.

They have missed the playoffs 8 straight years, 5 straight years under Yzerman.

His results suck It's not about just last year

 

[SantosHalper]

 

[bleedgreen]

They have missed the playoffs 8 straight years, 5 straight years under Yzerman.

His results suck It's not about just last year

You’re saying he sucks but you keep mentioning three years he wasn’t around for…

The whole point of a rebuild is to reset the roster, and once it’s in place start improving each year until you make the playoffs. It would appear that they’re improving which means the rebuild is working and that you’ve got some bias against Yzerman.

 

[Raistlin]

I'm not saying he's a bad gm or anything, but one day I wish I'd land in a market where I'm so beloved that I will be given unlimited leash to create my dream team 10 years down the road and my fanbase will lay down palm fronds when I enter the stadium. In the mean time, I can keep giving out these nice Florida made rosy glasses and berry blast Kool aid for all.

 

[tyhee]

The Avs went from 48 points to Cup champs in five years. How many more years does Yzerman need?

The Avs of 2017 started their run of five years that you refer to with Duchesne (2009-3rd overall), Landeskog (2011-2nd overall), MacKinnon (2013-1st overall) and Rantanen (2015-10th overall) not only on the club but all veterans. They were also about to draft 4th overall in 2017 and were fortunate enough that Cale Makar was there to take with that pick.

Of course the Avalanche of 2017, a team headed by MacKinnon, Landeskog and Rantanen (and not too long after Makar) plus the haul the Avs got trading Duchense is going to get good a lot faster than a team that starts without that kind of elite talent that hasn't had the opportunity to draft that level of quality since.to a team in the position of the Red Wings in 2019, which had neither that kind of quality nor the opportunity to acquire it in the draft since then.

Teams in such vastly different places won't even have the same plan. At team in the position of the 2017 Avs has a potential future core in place and needs to fill in around them. They can hurry to get maximum benefit out of the players they have. That figures to work badly when the young core isn't strong so the team will do a rebuild in hopes of becoming strong some time in the future.

 

[dirtydanglez]

he's not terrible, he's average maybe even slightly above average. good to see people coming around from the thought that he was a top tier gm.

 

[Shane Diesel]

The Avs of 2017 started their run of five years that you refer to with Duchesne (2009-3rd overall), Landeskog (2011-2nd overall), MacKinnon (2013-1st overall) and Rantanen (2015-10th overall) not only on the club but all veterans. They were also about to draft 4th overall in 2017 and were fortunate enough that Cale Makar was there to take with that pick.

At the end of 16/17 MacKinnon's career high was 63 points his rookie year and Rantanen was coming off a 22 point season. They also lost the lottery going from first to fourth that season.

This idea that the Avs were already a formed contender is laughable. None of their important players had become difference makers on the ice at that point.

MacKinnon and Rantanen were drafted in 2013 and 2015 respectively. Pretending that the Avs rebuilt from scratch after their awful 2016-17 season doesn't hold to scrutiny.

I never said it did. But that 16/17 team was far from what they are now.

Also keep in mind MacKinnon's career high in points by 16/17 was 63 and Rantanen's was 22. Neither one was even close to the players they are today.

The growth in the 17/18 season is when MacKinnon and Rantanen became true impact players.

 

[Ezekial]

Wyatt Johnston next to Seider and Raymond?

Yeah they'd be better off I don't think that's really up for debate

I didn't ask if they'd be better off if the two best players picked after their picks in hindsight were picked. I asked if it somehow turns them into a contender.

As a fan of the team Edvinsson could be better than Seider, so maybe we're still better off with him. It's early.

 

[Forge]

Big if true

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think what he's trying to do is raise the young Red Wings with veterans as the young players grow into veteran leaders.

He is a good GM as we've seen it with Tampa.

 

[tyhee]

At the end of 16/17 MacKinnon's career high was 63 points his rookie year and Rantanen was coming off a 22 point season. They also lost the lottery going from first to fourth that season.

This idea that the Avs were already a formed contender is laughable. None of their important players had become difference makers on the ice at that point.

...

You missed the point entirely.

Those Avalanche players had elite talent and it wasn't a big shock that they got really good not long after that 2016-17 season.

The youngsters in Detroit's lineup didn't have the future upside of MacKinnon, Landeskog etc.

It is a whole lot easier to get good in a hurry if you've already got a core of future stars, even if they aren't stars yet.

 

[MoneyManny]

I mean as an average hockey fan that doesn’t know much about how the team looked when he inherited the GM position, yeah one could say he hasn’t had success because they haven’t made the playoffs.

But then if you dig deeper you can see how the team did not have any stock pile of prospects and regardless of horrible lottery pick luck, still managed to replenish a rather anemic prospect pool.

He isn’t trying to put together a bubble playoff team. He’s building a Stanley cup winning team. Again if you take a bit of a deeper look you can see what he’s trying to accomplish by who he’s been drafting: lots of character guys. Fast. Bigger size….

Is the process taking longer than most hoped? I would agree to the average hockey fan, yes it seems like the team hasn’t been progressing fast enough.

If you check the teams stats over the past few seasons, they have constantly improved while being able to properly develop some of the prospects year after year.

Will the team regress this year? In all honestly this isn’t the roster that’s going to be winning the next cup for the franchise, pending a small miracle, this is the roster to help insulate some of the younger players on the team, while creating the basis of a winning culture styled attitude; being a true pro and allowing some extra time for the younger players not yet on the big team to develop for the new future. So if it regresses…. It’s not the end of the world.

The Walman trade happened because of a locker room altercation that took place during the season. He put himself in a bad position moving forward this year, hence why he was given away. Trading him also created more cap flexibility for signing Stamkos who Detroit was highly rumoured in being interested in.

At the end of the day winning a championship is the ultimate goal, and if you compare Detroit to the majority of the league, they have all won the same amount of cups in the past 10 years. If you look even closer at their division, teams not named Tampa or Florida haven’t had much if any success progressing deep into the playoffs at all.

So at the end of the day I guess the question really comes down to if you’re satisfied as a fan just making the playoffs and losing after a round or maybe 2, or if your goal is a few steps further and less short sighted, of actually winning a Stanley Cup.

That sounds like a whole lot of nothing.

What concerns me with Detroit is that teams on the same timeline as them such as NJ are already competing, and now teams that have begun rebuilding recently like CHI and SJS are leapfrogging over them in the rebuild. When is it going to be Detroit's window to win? It's going to be Bedard's and Celebrini's league before you know it.

As i see it, Detroit is heading slow and steady towards bubble team territory.

 

[Sadekuuro]

What move could Yzerman have made that turns them into a contender since 2019?

These threads are always very light on minor details like those

 

[NyQuil]

Other than possibly replacing Perron with Tarasenko NOTHING Yzerman did this off season was good.

 

[Just Linda]

The difference between a good GM and a bad GM is often luck.

He had it in Tampa, he didn't have it in Detroit.

His job in Tampa was easier than many. Here's your first overall pick in Stamkos, your second overall pick in Hedman, here's a third overall pick.

He also had a ton of luck, good scouting, and good development on his side. Their cup run was built on later draft picks that became steals and from pivoting away from risks (McDonagh and Sergachev were got for Drouin, Howden, and Namestikov, first rounders who didn't hit).

He was far from perfect (Vasi was the second first rounder they had in that draft) but so much went right.

I haven't been a fan of the work he's done in Detroit but how much of that is bad luck and how much of that is his decisions.

If Kasper or Danielson pop up and do what Point did (become a top centre), they have a solid chance of being something good.

I don't see it, I don't see a future where they become contenders with the core they have no, but they have the culture built and a lot of luck could give Stevey Y something to work with.