Steve Yzerman is not a good GM. | Page 104 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Steve Yzerman is not a good GM.

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That's kind of my point.

Whether you think Yzerman has done a good job or a bad job, the Larkin situation has the potential to define the next chapter of his tenure.

If he handles it poorly, the criticism will only grow. If he handles it well, it could change the trajectory of the franchise.

That's what makes it pivotal.
Give me a realistic example of a trade of Larkin where you think Yzerman would be considered to have handled it well?
I can’t think of a single realistic trade where Detroit wins the trade. At this point the main goal should be to limit the damage of losing your number one center. At least give the next GM some futures to work with in the inevitable rebuild.
 
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That's kind of my point.

Whether you think Yzerman has done a good job or a bad job, the Larkin situation has the potential to define the next chapter of his tenure.

If he handles it poorly, the criticism will only grow. If he handles it well, it could change the trajectory of the franchise.

That's what makes it pivotal.

I think Yzerman has done a fairly adequate job in Detroit to build a team that can make the playoffs on a regular basis - don't think it has high end contending potential as currently built. That echelon doesn't require perfection in team building. Just look at the errors Buffalo and Ottawa have made over the years. But at it's heart I think boils down to having a Dylan Larkin sized problem. Which is he's not really good enough as a franchise leading 1C. If he was I think Detroit wins those marginal handful of games year to year and end up in a WC position.

I think if Yzerman can conduct his Larkin auction as if he was a star 1C and received that kind of compensation, it's going to be a win for Detroit. You're not moving off a franchise level player.
 
Give me a realistic example of a trade of Larkin where you think Yzerman would be considered to have handled it well?
I can’t think of a single realistic trade where Detroit wins the trade. At this point the main goal should be to limit the damage of losing your number one center. At least give the next GM some futures to work with in the inevitable rebuild.
The most realistic example is Yzerman moving Larkin for younger players and assets that accelerate a retool. Not a rebuild, but a move designed to improve Detroit's long-term trajectory.

Fans have recently been split on trading Larkin. The question isn't whether Detroit wins the trade on Day 1. Losing your 1C almost always hurts.

The question is whether the return helps shape the next phase of the Red Wings better than keeping Larkin through the decline years of his contract.
 
The most realistic example is Yzerman moving Larkin for younger players and assets that accelerate a retool. Not a rebuild, but a move designed to improve Detroit's long-term trajectory.

Fans have recently been split on trading Larkin. The question isn't whether Detroit wins the trade on Day 1. Losing your 1C almost always hurts.

The question is whether the return helps shape the next phase of the Red Wings better than keeping Larkin through the decline years of his contract.
Sure. If it speeds up the rebuild and results in a new GM I’d call that a win. But I think Yzerman is too stubborn to admit his plan hasn’t worked and ownership loves him so I expect him to trade for a stop gap solution that makes the team worse and delays the rebuild.
 
The most realistic example is Yzerman moving Larkin for younger players and assets that accelerate a retool. Not a rebuild, but a move designed to improve Detroit's long-term trajectory.

Fans have recently been split on trading Larkin. The question isn't whether Detroit wins the trade on Day 1. Losing your 1C almost always hurts.

The question is whether the return helps shape the next phase of the Red Wings better than keeping Larkin through the decline years of his contract.
Reportedly there are only three teams Larkin is willing to be traded to: Vegas, Minnesota, and someone else. The receiving side has more bargaining power. It's possible the Red Wings win a Larkin trade, but they might even have to play him in Detroit for a bit if a trade doesn't pan out over the summer. Unfortunately, I think the odds are against the Red Wings winning this debacle right now.
 
Give me a realistic example of a trade of Larkin where you think Yzerman would be considered to have handled it well?
I can’t think of a single realistic trade where Detroit wins the trade. At this point the main goal should be to limit the damage of losing your number one center. At least give the next GM some futures to work with in the inevitable rebuild.

If a trade like this with Anaheim: McTavish + McQueen + 1st + Solberg for Larkin & Anton Johansson.
I think that lands them in a reasonable position short term and future.

You could do a trade with Minnesota of Danila Yurov + Charlie Stramel + Riley Heidt + David Spacek
Or Yurov + Wallstedt + Stramel + Spacek for Larkin & some other piece like Noah Dower Nilsen or Cossa if that is the decision.

If it is Vegas it probably has to be William Karlsson + Pavel Dorofeyev + 1st + Trevor Connelly / Kaedan Korczak. Preference would be Connolly, but they might not trade both Dorofeyev and Connelly, might be one of them. If they want to keep Korczak, we are coming to a difficult territory, maybe Alex Weiermair would be the last peace. Alexander Holtz could be an option, but idk if they would risk getting him.

If its Florida its Lundell +1st and maybe Matvei Shuravin

If its Dallas it would be trying to make something around Jason Robertson re-signed + Justin Hryckowian for Larkin and a better prospect.

If its Utah it makes sense that its for more of a prospects deal like 1st + Caleb Desnoyers + Tij Iginla
Doubtful that they do that, so it could be 1st + Tij Iginla + Cole Beaudoin + Daniil But for Larkin + a forward prospect going back.

I think Yzerman has done a fairly adequate job in Detroit to build a team that can make the playoffs on a regular basis - don't think it has high end contending potential as currently built. That echelon doesn't require perfection in team building. Just look at the errors Buffalo and Ottawa have made over the years. But at it's heart I think boils down to having a Dylan Larkin sized problem. Which is he's not really good enough as a franchise leading 1C. If he was I think Detroit wins those marginal handful of games year to year and end up in a WC position.

The only issue with the rebuild so far, besides its taking time is clear cut top six direct impact centers haven't been available for a reasonable price / They didn't want to go here / Not been available when Detroit drafted. Thus those we got and have drafted will take some more time until figuring out where they fit.

I think if Yzerman can conduct his Larkin auction as if he was a star 1C and received that kind of compensation, it's going to be a win for Detroit. You're not moving off a franchise level player.

That is important to remember, Larkin is not a Franchise level player in terms of skill even if someone feel he is in terms of local state.

The most realistic example is Yzerman moving Larkin for younger players and assets that accelerate a retool. Not a rebuild, but a move designed to improve Detroit's long-term trajectory.

Which is hard to find that fit, as not so many teams that would be trade partners have that. Some have few pieces, but otherwise its going to be more a little longer term prospects that go back.

The question is whether the return helps shape the next phase of the Red Wings better than keeping Larkin through the decline years of his contract.
For long term, if its several pieces then chances are decent, but will be a bit of time until one knows the outcome of that. It has the potential to be a higher upside.

Sure. If it speeds up the rebuild and results in a new GM I’d call that a win. But I think Yzerman is too stubborn to admit his plan hasn’t worked and ownership loves him so I expect him to trade for a stop gap solution that makes the team worse and delays the rebuild.
Well that is what some of these vocal fans been yelling for. Make short term trades for short term upgrades to make the playoffs. I don't think that is the solution. His plan has been fine, you can't help for things not being available to you.
Going to be interesting to see if a trade is made, could be that the price or partner just isn't there and one should be okay with holding on to Larkin until there is some fit that makes sense or if even the younger guys take the other spots and become better without Larkin having been traded at all.
 
Reportedly there are only three teams Larkin is willing to be traded to: Vegas, Minnesota, and someone else. The receiving side has more bargaining power. It's possible the Red Wings win a Larkin trade, but they might even have to play him in Detroit for a bit if a trade doesn't pan out over the summer. Unfortunately, I think the odds are against the Red Wings winning this debacle right now.

LeBrun recently reported Larkin expanded his trade list to three additional teams. I think it was Utah, Dallas and someone else.
 
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That’s nonsense no matter how hard you push it. Buffalo was happening with or without Adams being fired. The players don’t care like that. It’s a hockey fan concept that there’s this black cloud hanging over the team that’s keeping them down….and it’s the gm. They clicked on a road trip before he got fired, and it was during a time where they finally had the group together and healthy for the first time this season with Ruff getting his message across. After adding Doan, keeping Zucker, Norris healthy, Samuelson being night and day better and Dahlin being back from his fiancée’s issues….they had a new and different team that clicked.

The idea that a bunch of 20 something’s playing hockey for a living were so pumped that a gm that fans think didn’t get enough for Eichel years before was fired that they went on a winning spree is pure fan fantasy vs the obvious option. They were a new bunch of guys, they got healthy and finally figured it out.

so then why his particular 3 game win streak and not any of the doezen others over the past 14 years?

if you don't believe in Morale then that means you have never worked for an idiot boss and that is the case that's a godd thing, consider yourself lucky
 
Sure. If it speeds up the rebuild and results in a new GM I’d call that a win. But I think Yzerman is too stubborn to admit his plan hasn’t worked and ownership loves him so I expect him to trade for a stop gap solution that makes the team worse and delays the rebuild.
Would be out of character for a GM whose mantra the entire time has been not sacrificing the future and whose refusal to go all-in on the Larkin timeline is a factor in this situation arising.
 
Would be out of character for a GM whose mantra the entire time has been not sacrificing the future and whose refusal to go all-in on the Larkin timeline is a factor in this situation arising.

Maybe he should have sacrificed some of that future, maybe the Larkin situation could have been avoided
 
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If you follow that logic shouldn't GMs be fired mid-season all the time? Montreal has a bad start next season and Hughes should be canned, right?

Montreal doesn't have a 10 year playoff drought like Detroit does, or 14 years like Buffalo did.

the Situations are not even close to the same.

It would take a season a season like Toronto or Florida had this year for Montreal to miss the playoffs, which is to say they would have to be gutted by injury.

Detroit doesn't need to gutted by injury, they just aren't good, in any area
 
Maybe he should have sacrificed some of that future, maybe the Larkin situation could have been avoided
This is what I think too. When a club has a lot of young assets (and picks) then moving some of those, especially if redundant, to bring in experienced players to fill out the roster would be a good play. Did Yzerman need to draft ASP? Maybe that pick could have been used to get help into the lineup elsewhere?
 
Give me a realistic example of a trade of Larkin where you think Yzerman would be considered to have handled it well?
I can’t think of a single realistic trade where Detroit wins the trade. At this point the main goal should be to limit the damage of losing your number one center. At least give the next GM some futures to work with in the inevitable rebuild.
You can’t think of any examples of where a team has won a trade?
 
If Yzerman pays the price to get Hughes, do the Wings make the playoffs and Larkin is not asking for a trade? IMO it’s likely what happens.
both wild and red wings had 17 wins on the date when hughes was traded. i also believe that they would have made the playoffs.
 
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both wild and red wings both had 17 wins on the date when hughes was traded. i also believe that they would have made the playoffs.
Was it near the end of the previous season when Larkin expressed disappointment that Yzerman didn’t add at the TDL? I’m thinking Larkin isn’t pleased with missing out on Hughes, when the opportunity was there and Yzerman didn’t get it done.
 
Was it near the end of the previous season when Larkin expressed disappointment that Yzerman didn’t add at the TDL? I’m thinking Larkin isn’t pleased with missing out on Hughes, when the opportunity was there and Yzerman didn’t get it done.
I think it was sometime after that trade deadline. Yzerman and someone else from management were visibly annoyed during a press conference shortly thereafter. I think Yzerman wanted to keep such misgivings internal to the team. Their relationship probably started to sour already at that point.
 
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