Stephen Weiss

[Heaton]

How often are a team's top 9 forwards all healthy at the same time? I'd imagine that your 10th best forward will play in your top 9 the vast majority of games over the course of a season.

Is that the best way to spend 5m/season though? If he isn't a lock for the top 9, he needs to be moved. We have plenty of players who can fill in for the top 9 that don't make that much $$. If Weiss is pencilled in for the 4th line on opening night, that's a bad situation.

 

[Inspiration]

Is that the best way to spend 5m/season though? If he isn't a lock for the top 9, he needs to be moved. We have plenty of players who can fill in for the top 9 that don't make that much $$. If Weiss is pencilled in for the 4th line on opening night, that's a bad situation.

No, it isn't the best way to spend $5 million. But there isn't a way to get rid of his entire contract without some sort of cost (whether that be giving up additional assets or forgoing other compensation or salary retention in a trade); therefore, weighing Weiss versus $5 million isn't an accurate evaluation of the situation. They could buy him out, but that only saves about $1.65 million per year (technically quite a bit more in 2015, but most of that is just pushed into future seasons, which isn't always ideal with a young roster like the Wings have). That makes Weiss' opportunity cost $1.65 million (plus whatever value you put on pushing a some of his cap hit a few years in the future). Is that worth keeping him around? I don't have a good answer for that, but it's at least debatable.

 

[Winger98]

Is that the best way to spend 5m/season though? If he isn't a lock for the top 9, he needs to be moved. We have plenty of players who can fill in for the top 9 that don't make that much $$. If Weiss is pencilled in for the 4th line on opening night, that's a bad situation.

We can't even be certain that he's better than some of our fourth line options or a few of the kids we could call up. If someone goes down, do we want Weiss or Mantha? Larkin? Athanasiou? Nosek? At this point, it's arguably not even about the cap space tied up in Weiss but in the roster space.

Actually, Friedman's clarification of his comments paints a different narrative than what we've been told:

Makes it sound like Toronto had agreed to Weiss and Smith as core parts of the deal. I'm somewhat surprised Pulkkinen appears to be the hangup in that scenario.

 

[odin1981]

Makes it sound like Toronto had agreed to Weiss and Smith as core parts of the deal. I'm somewhat surprised Pulkkinen appears to be the hangup in that scenario.

Granted he could bust but consistent 30+ goal scorers are hard to come by so with 2-3 years of patience one of Nyquist, Tatar, or Pulk could be moved for a lot better than Homophobic Sluroof.

It is no certainty that he is a goal score of that caliber in the NHL but we move one of them that proves consistency of 30+ goal seasons and we with say a 1st or second rounder plus a b prospect can grab a #2 defender that is not regressing like a pile of refuse that Dion is and not locked up for twice as long as Weiss but making the same amount of money.

 

[Heaton]

Granted he could bust but consistent 30+ goal scorers are hard to come by so with 2-3 years of patience one of Nyquist, Tatar, or Pulk could be moved for a lot better than Homophobic Sluroof.

It is no certainty that he is a goal score of that caliber in the NHL but we move one of them that proves consistency of 30+ goal seasons and we with say a 1st or second rounder plus a b prospect can grab a #2 defender that is not regressing like a pile of refuse that Dion is and not locked up for twice as long as Weiss but making the same amount of money.

I don't think that's true. I don't think anyone better than Phaneuf is actually available for the package mentioned.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Makes it sound like Toronto had agreed to Weiss and Smith as core parts of the deal. I'm somewhat surprised Pulkkinen appears to be the hangup in that scenario.

Supposedly they wanted Mantha?

 

[Winger98]

I don't think that's true. I don't think anyone better than Phaneuf is actually available for the package mentioned.

Yeah, I read it as Pulkkinen being necessary to get them to take Weiss and Smith. If we're trying to dump Weiss on someone, almost regardless of what we're taking back, we'll have to sweeten the pot. People can bash Phaneuf all they want, but his value is still far ahead of Weiss'.

Supposedly they wanted Mantha?

I'm just going by the Friedman tweet, and it seemed like Pulkkinen may have been wanted by Toronto but Holland had balked at it. I remember Mantha or a 1st being rumored, but Holland has seemed very unwilling to give anything like that up in a trade. At the same time, trade talks were rumored to have moved above Nonis' head and had involved Shanny. If talks were that serious, I think it's more likely that Toronto budged and were actually quite a bit closer to our asking price than we thought.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

We've already heard this rumor, but:

Any idea of the context behind mentioning this?

Because me thinks the ship has sailed on this deal -- can't see Weiss waiving his NTC with Babs in Toronto, and can't see Babs wanting Smith.

 

[Kronwalled55]

I'm not sure if there's room for Weiss regardless of who's coaching this team.

 

[Mijatovic]

Weiss isnt neccessarily worse than Sheahan. Statistically, he was pretty similar despite have far worse linemates on average. Sheahan seemed to play "nicer" but you wouldnt suggest its the same as being productive.

Theres no reason Weiss couldnt be our 3rd line centre to Pulkinnen and Tatar. I suspect he would do better than Wing for Glendening and Anderson or Miller.

 

[Mijatovic]

Also, if Jurco wants play time this year, he would want to have a good summer and camp. I hope Blashill doesnt give him a free ride.

 

[Caspar]

Weiss isnt neccessarily worse than Sheahan. Statistically, he was pretty similar despite have far worse linemates on average. Sheahan seemed to play "nicer" but you wouldnt suggest its the same as being productive.

Theres no reason Weiss couldnt be our 3rd line centre to Pulkinnen and Tatar. I suspect he would do better than Wing for Glendening and Anderson or Miller.

Man it's getting weird this perpetual banter attempting to defend Stephen Weiss. Many fans were over him before he even stepped on the ice for the Wings in 2013, he's the definition of "dead weight". Let it go bro! He's gone, done, finito, arrivederci, sayonara. And to compare him to our developing 23 year old 1st round draft pick is ludicrous.

Players are aging so fast in the NHL. Sad to say players like Versteeg, Richards, Booth, Weiss, who were only a few seasons past star of the league are barely now 4th liners. I think all of their play is actually hurting their teams despite past glory or possibly a lower cap hit. This is also why I think NHL players should get a greater cut of revenue because most careers don't last 20 years, it's too brutal of a game.

Weiss was dishonest about his injuries before and while playing for the Red Wings, remember that. I think he's made Holland and this team the fool, or at least his agent did. We owe him nothing. He is the #1 failure and liability in the organization of this team and I don't care what penally we face Weiss must be a goner.

 

[odin1981]

I don't think that's true. I don't think anyone better than Phaneuf is actually available for the package mentioned.

I wasn't talking about the package that was mentioned. Weiss is a lost cause due to his injuries. His groin is reliable as Gus which is to say it is of the consistency of wet tissue paper.

Weiss is pretty much a complete buy out going forward. My hope is that with the # of winger prospects coming in going forward in a couple/few years one of the above three mentioned can be used as the main asset for a actual #2 or #3 defender that isn't on the down turn of there career. Say a mid to late 20's guy starting his prime.

The only use he has this coming year is maybe he can stay healthy and hold the 3rd line center position down and put up 30-40 points doing so maybe he can be pawned off to a cap floor team for a pick and maybe a B prospect.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I think Phaneuf's value is being inflated. He has a gigantic contract at 7 per for the next 6 years. He's already 30. His offensive game has vanished. I'm not at all certain he's going to give you 75+ games again.

Is he worth more than Weiss? Yeah. Is Sleepy an inch taller than Dopey?

 

[Winger98]

I wasn't talking about the package that was mentioned. Weiss is a lost cause due to his injuries. His groin is reliable as Gus which is to say it is of the consistency of wet tissue paper.

Weiss is pretty much a complete buy out going forward. My hope is that with the # of winger prospects coming in going forward in a couple/few years one of the above three mentioned can be used as the main asset for a actual #2 or #3 defender that isn't on the down turn of there career. Say a mid to late 20's guy starting his prime.

The only use he has this coming year is maybe he can stay healthy and hold the 3rd line center position down and put up 30-40 points doing so maybe he can be pawned off to a cap floor team for a pick and maybe a B prospect.

If he can do that, I actually don't mind keeping him around. It allows us to save some wear/tear on datsyuk and zetterberg, and is definitely more of a scoring line option than someone like Glendening or Andersson. With how poorly he seemed to skate this year, I wonder how much he was actually able to train last summer. Maybe it's unrealistic, but maybe he just needs a healthy summer to get his legs in shape. Gotta hope, since I doubt we move him anyway.

And I get where you're coming from now on the scoring wings/trades thing. For what it's worth, the Friedman quote seems to have Holland possibly agreeing, as the Leafs may have been the ones asking for Pulkkinen and Holland wasn't biting.

 

[bullocks]

Weiss was probably popping bottles after Babs went to Toronto.

 

[Debrincat93]

If the new coaching move doesn't get him rejuvenated for a fresh start then there's just no way he will ever amount to anything. I liked the signing at the time but he came in here and skates with zero passion or drive... feet are never moving unless he' having a strong game. Unfortunate but im glad we didn't over commit on the term..

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Weiss is 32. Over the past three seasons, Weiss has played 95 regular season games, or 97 games including the playoffs. Some of that was the result of being a healthy scratch, but unless Weiss ends up being seen hanging out with Ponce de León, he will only get worse.

 

[Debrincat93]

you wont get a buyer for him unless you take on another bad, bad contract..

would rather wait out the 2 years and be done with it then take on something bad..

I reallllllly like adding Phaneuf... if it was a 4-5 year deal.... his team is too long.. pass

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Weiss isnt neccessarily worse than Sheahan. Statistically, he was pretty similar despite have far worse linemates on average. Sheahan seemed to play "nicer" but you wouldnt suggest its the same as being productive.

Theres no reason Weiss couldnt be our 3rd line centre to Pulkinnen and Tatar. I suspect he would do better than Wing for Glendening and Anderson or Miller.

Weiss isn't necessarily worse than Sheahan? Um Weiss was one of our worst players and Sheahan was fantastic. I am so confused it's not even funny

 

[Mijatovic]

Weiss isn't necessarily worse than Sheahan? Um Weiss was one of our worst players and Sheahan was fantastic. I am so confused it's not even funny

Obviously your confused. Sheahan was not one of our BEST players by any stretch of the imagination. He was a place holder, he held his own playing 2nd/3rd line Centre but certainly didnt play like he owned his position.

As I said, statistically, Weiss was as productive as Sheahan playing with far worse team mates. I am sure if Weiss had Tatar, Nyquist and co rotating through his lines he could have been more productive than Sheahan.

People get enamoured with Sheahan because hes 8 year younger than Weiss. I dont care how good he looked playing, he wasnt as productive as you would want from a 2C.

 

[Syckle78]

Obviously your confused. Sheahan was not one of our BEST players by any stretch of the imagination. He was a place holder, he held his own playing 2nd/3rd line Centre but certainly didnt play like he owned his position.

As I said, statistically, Weiss was as productive as Sheahan playing with far worse team mates. I am sure if Weiss had Tatar, Nyquist and co rotating through his lines he could have been more productive than Sheahan.

People get enamoured with Sheahan because hes 8 year younger than Weiss. I dont care how good he looked playing, he wasnt as productive as you would want from a 2C.

But let's ignore that Weiss played against much worse competition and his production is based on a goofy stat like points per minute playing very very few minutes.

I don't understand why you're so enamoured with Weiss.

 

[8snake]

But let's ignore that Weiss played against much worse competition and his production is based on a goofy stat like points per minute playing very very few minutes.

I don't understand why you're so enamoured with Weiss.

I don't even think Weiss will be in the NHL a year from now, but I'm not really high on Sheahan either. If the plan is to move Hank to wing I don't think we have a bona-fide #2 center on this roster. The HOPE is Sheahan takes a step in his development and becomes that, but I'm skeptical.

 

[Syckle78]

I don't even think Weiss will be in the NHL a year from now, but I'm not really high on Sheahan either. If the plan is to move Hank to wing I don't think we have a bona-fide #2 center on this roster. The HOPE is Sheahan takes a step in his development and becomes that, but I'm skeptical.

I see him as a borderline 2/3. I wasn't singing his praise. I was more just talking about Weiss.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I don't even think Weiss will be in the NHL a year from now, but I'm not really high on Sheahan either. If the plan is to move Hank to wing I don't think we have a bona-fide #2 center on this roster. The HOPE is Sheahan takes a step in his development and becomes that, but I'm skeptical.

If he has another season that he only gets 35 or 40 points, Then you can be skeptical

He shouldnt even be in the NHL right now with how Detroit does things