State of the Jackets

[We Want Ten]

Good news is Joey has looked really good the past couplease of games. Hopefully he continues to improve.

 

[blahblah]

Do we really have quality players if we're dead last in the league with the most games played? 25th in goals scored and 25th in goals allowed, and Bob has only missed a few games. Most other major contributors have not been injured, which was last year's excuse.

Yes we have a lot of quality players. Doesn't mean all of them are in their correct role(s) or are playing to their ability.

I said last season that injuries weren't a complete excuse, there was a time we had most of our players back and struggled.

I'm looking for improvement. I'm seeing improvement in Cam and Calvert. Improvement doesn't always translate into big jumps in production, certainly not this soon. Their are both getting far more quality chances than they were and, as I said, Cam is much better in the offensive zone than he was in the past. All your doing is pointing at stats and bashing the team based on record. End results are great, but it's crappy and simplistic analysis. Not much useful comes out of it than "We need to improve".

 

[blahblah]

Good news is Joey has looked really good the past couplease of games. Hopefully he continues to improve.

He's looked better to be sure. Not sure I'd upgrade him to "really good", but that's subjective.

 

[blahblah]

Maybe Bjorkstrand and Milano develop into that kind of a player but I'd take the under on both of them being big time scorers.

On a side note, I'm willing to bet that, at least, one of them becomes a 30 goal scorer. I wouldn't be surprised to see some 35 goal seasons in there.

I think Rychel is another Jenner, 25 or so goals. I don't think we're going to see much more than that - which is great.

 

[We Want Ten]

He's looked better to be sure. Not sure I'd upgrade him to "really good", but that's subjective.

Let's say really good compared to himself from earlier in the year.
I don't know, I'm trying to be positive.

 

[blahblah]

Let's say really good compared to himself from earlier in the year.
I don't know, I'm trying to be positive.

I'll accept that. Cheers.

 

[DarkandStormy]

All your doing is pointing at stats and bashing the team based on record. End results are great, but it's crappy and simplistic analysis.

Yes, this is professional sports. You are judged on end results. This team is a cap team performing at the bottom of the league in A LOT of aspects. I can keep going with Even-strength Corsi numbers (24th in the league) or PDO (22nd in the league).

This is not a franchise team in year #2 still building. This is not a cash-strapped team (I don't think) working with limited assets compared to the rest of the league (other than Clarkson/Horton v.s. Toronto). They are spending $70 million.

The improvements are great, yes. We're losing 2-1 and 3-2 instead of getting the doors blown off. At some point, wins and points matter. That's what gets you into the playoffs. You have to score goals. The defense part is improving, though still pretty bad in total for 40% of the season. The offense is not.

If we're just going to ignore results then why the heck are we even watching, paying? I mean, I know now since the season is shot. But for 16 years it's been "Oh man, this team is improving. Just wait until they put it together." That's frustrating. And if you take Viqsi's word Torts isn't even the guy to turn it around here.

I post all those stats (GF, GA, CF, PDO, etc.) because those are indicators of where this team is in relation to W/L. And W/L determines your postseason fate. I understand some outliers here and there, but 40% of the season is done. That's a large enough sample size. They're exactly average under Torts - 11-11-3. Not that I thought he was going to bring in some dramatic turnaround, of course not. They're 25 games in with Torts and I guess no longer a dumpster fire. Is that the positive?

 

[pete goegan]

I'll sum this up.

This team hasn't been coached well for a few years. I know Richards was a good locker room/player coach. He, as far as I can tell, was never that great of an x's/o's kind of guy. Over the years I illustrated his many misgivings, much to the disbelief of some around here.

I see differences already. I agree with Torts in that this is going to take a while to turn this around. I think we're making strides defensively even if we still shoot ourselves in the foot repeatedly. We are start to get more and more offensive zone time, too bad it's not translating into significantly more prime scoring chances.

Guys like Calvert and Atkinson are starting to shine a bit more. Torts has said he wants the game quicker. These two can play at that speed with skill. Sadly it leads to some poor decisions like Wennberg made last night. I know we're down on him, but I'm liking his play more and more.

What's interesting to me is that our 4th line has been pretty effective the last couple of games. They are a nice change of pace and it's the best I've seen Clarkson since he got here.

Our defense is going to be an issue until we get rid of a couple (well maybe 3 or 4) of players and have another one or two play less minutes. I think #4 can become a really effective player for us as a 5/6. I think Golo has a future. I think time has caught up with Tyutin. One thing that I have noticed is that, while he still has some challenges, Savard is not nearly as dumb this season. I'm actually ok with his play. Still don't think he's a 1/2, but at least he's playing serviceable. Only real issue I have with JJ is consistent play, I'd like to see him settle into a 3/4 role here. I think Murray is slowly developing, but those injuries really screwed with his development. Despite some of the negatives I saw last night, I think he's the best defensive puck mover on this team by a mile. Like all young guys his decision making can improve.

I'm not upset with the forwards, we'll just need to move one or two to make room for guys like Rychel. I really like Karlsson in the bottom six, what a bright spot. I no longer want to move Atkinson, I think he's making some strides this season. His turning into something more than just a transition player. Outside of Bourque and Boll, not sure where/how we free up roster spots.

JK really should have dumped Richards when he was hired. Richards over achieved and made it difficult to get rid of him setting the team back.

I know a few people don't like Torts personality. That's fine, he's a shelf life coach. Having said that he actually can see issues and knows how he wants to go about correcting it. I've seen some of his coaching in practices starting to show up on the ice. It's a slow process, but I'm content with the progress. It's a dead season, I'm not going to ride the roller coaster of angst with some of you.

Yes we suck right now. But it's a roster that can turn things around quickly. We have quality players.

Good post (which means, of course, I agree).

 

[EspenK]

On a side note, I'm willing to bet that, at least, one of them becomes a 30 goal scorer. I wouldn't be surprised to see some 35 goal seasons in there.

I think Rychel is another Jenner, 25 or so goals. I don't think we're going to see much more than that - which is great.

Kind of what I meant- one of them(OB or Sonny) wouldn't surprise me both would.

 

[blahblah]

Yes, this is professional sports. You are judged on end results. This team is a cap team performing at the bottom of the league in A LOT of aspects. I can keep going with Even-strength Corsi numbers (24th in the league) or PDO (22nd in the league).

Come on man, you are stating the obvious without the correct context. It's been a struggle, they weren't coached all that well, and are trying to learn how to win again. That doesn't mean we need a rebuild or that the players suck. We're closer to winning again than the other bottom feeders. Much closer.

 

[NotWendell]

I still think it comes down to ownership, culture and lack of accountability all the way down.

What Hitch (in past) and Torts (now) have done is brought more accountability to players when they are on the ice.

Rest of it is having different guys picking up random players who fit whatever the current vision of the team is. Sometimes it's fixing problems, other times it's adding best available. But this isn't fantasy hockey, the back of the hockey card shouldn't matter as much as finding the right players to fit in what we want the team to be.

You can build from the net out or you can try to outscore your opponents. If you look at our team make-up it's a good goalie who is injury prone, and a bunch of forwards who can score goals when the have limited defensive responsibility. The a bunch of d-men who are (as a group) are among the worst in the league. So what is the vision of the team? Only thing that make sense is try to outscore the other team and hope Bob plays outstanding.

That's my $.02

If you buy into that assessment, which I do, we only need to improve the defense and the backup goalie. The forwards can't score when the opponent has time to set up in their zone before we get there. That transition starts with a crisp, accurate pass from the defense (to our team).

EDIT: I should have just stopped "The forwards can't score."

 

[NotWendell]

Come on man, you are stating the obvious without the correct context. It's been a struggle, they weren't coached all that well, and are trying to learn how to win again. That doesn't mean we need a rebuild or that the players suck. We're closer to winning again than the other bottom feeders. Much closer.

A handful of the players suck. Most of the rest are inconsistent as heck.

 

[blahblah]

If you buy into that assessment, which I do, we only need to improve the defense and the backup goalie. The forwards can't score when the opponent has time to set up in their zone before we get there. That transition starts with a crisp, accurate pass from the defense (to our team).

I find our transition to be less the problem than the play in the offensive zone when we have a forecheck going. What I'm reading his is puck retrieval in the defensive zone; yes we're not winning as many battles as we should (forwards and defense). Once we get control of the puck, I don't think we have quite as many turnovers as we did earlier in the season. I think we're moving better as a 5 man unit (thank goodness that has returned instead of relying on a lot of stretch passes - not Savards game as an example).

The crisp accurate pass comes from who retrieves the puck, that may or may not be the defense.

 

[blahblah]

A handful of the players suck. Most of the rest are inconsistent as heck.

Boll and Prout (who is actually a bit better recently) are about the only two I say truly suck. Most include Clarkson but if he continues to play like he has the last couple of games, I'll just say he's not earning his pay but I won't include him as a player that sucks.

I don't think we're at a handful; just annoyed fans that are annoyed we are losing leading to some hyperbole.

 

[NotWendell]

I find our transition to be less the problem than the play in the offensive zone when we have a forecheck going. What I'm reading his is puck retrieval in the defensive zone; yes we're not winning as many battles as we should (forwards and defense). Once we get control of the puck, I don't think we have quite as many turnovers as we did earlier in the season. I think we're moving better as a 5 man unit (thank goodness that has returned instead of relying on a lot of stretch passes - not Savards game as an example).

The crisp accurate pass comes from who retrieves the puck, that may or may not be the defense.

When the pass in is your skates or behind you, that's not the forwards fault. Our passing accuracy from back to front is still well below that of most teams.

Don't get me started again on the stupid pass in front of our our net that gets picked off almost every game for a prime scoring opportunity.

 

[blahblah]

When the pass in is your skates or behind you, that's not the forwards fault. Our passing accuracy from back to front is still well below that of most teams.

Don't get me started again on the stupid pass in front of our our net that gets picked off almost every game for a prime scoring opportunity.

I think it's fairly obvious that I don't think your complaint is a systemic problem, therefore I can't agree.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Before going on that tear to end the season last year, the team was 27-34-4, good for a .446 point percentage. The team that was absolutely decimated by a nearly historical string of injuries to major players had a .446 point percentage.

After tonight's game, this healthy team with the roster as constructed will have a .379 point percentage. That translates to 62 points over the span of a season, which would be the second-worst in franchise history (ahead only of 2001-02).

Not to mention we have never had a successful GM before. We've always been the training wheels for GM's, DM, SH, JK, none of them were GM's before, let alone successful ones. JK is not going to be one. His contract management has been deplorable. We're the 2nd worst team in the league, and we're a cap team, unbelievable.

I remember a few years ago when a chronically downtrodden and hideously mismanaged team made one of the most bizarre GM hires I can remember, putting a former player in as a first-time. There were some definite hiccups; the team would improve, then slump; he'd make a minor move that no one thought anything of and it would turn out great, or he'd make a bigger one that didn't really go anywhere. And when the calls were loudest for his head when it looked like the team was going nowhere, the team didn't make a move; the GM had a vision, and they were going to see how it turned out. Anyone would be better, and the guys at the top sat on their hands and did nothing.

Probably 2/3 of the teams in this league would love to have Garth Snow leading the way right about now.

 

[blahblah]

Probably 2/3 of the teams in this league would love to have Garth Snow leading the way right about now.

That blind squirrel finally found a nut. Only took half a decade or more for him to start making some intelligent decisions.

To be honest, I wouldn't.

 

[NotWendell]

I think it's fairly obvious that I don't think your complaint is a systemic problem, therefore I can't agree.

Well, at least you were respectful about it.
It's not a systemic problem as much as a lack of talent problem. However, I will revise my comments so as not to blame the defense entirely for the offense's shortcomings.

 

[blahblah]

Well, at least you were respectful about it.
It's not a systemic problem as much as a lack of talent problem.

lol. Actually your responses deserved respect.

If it's not systemic that kind of means that it's not something that happens with regularity.

If you want to state we are poor at stretch passes, I'll agree. I think you have some points, just not sure you're articulating them very well. However, we can move pretty well as a 5 man unit and some of the problems you were identifying are related to things that don't involve "talent".

There is enough talent on this team to compete. There is more talent on this team than we've had before. Personally I think a lot of our issues are with our decision making than talent issues.

 

[EdwardG]

This team has long had a habit of "buying high" with their contracts. Dubinski at, what, $6M, and for what production? Foligno signs during what's looking like a career year. Didn't like either deal (admittedly I hated the Dubi one more). Hartnell is looking like a decent rescue of the terrible Umberger signing, then there's all that money sitting out there thanks to the no insurance Horton signing. In a cap league you can't waste money and the CBJ are wasting a lot of it. They still lack quality blueliners, too, but what else is new.

That said, the mental weakness of this team is puzzling. It's been a trademark of CBJ teams almost every year, but I thought this year they'd finally break through that wall from the beginning.

I think this is the most disappointing CBJ team in its history.

 

[blahblah]

No issue, at all, with the Dubinsky signing. His production has been as a 2nd line center and the contract supports that. He's a very solid 2-way 2nd line center. His production has been solid his entire time as a Jacket. He's more of an assist guy, but he had 13 goals in 47 games last season with 36 points. That was almost top line production.

 

[niflheim]

I like one old sad russian song

In this garden where we met
Your favourite bush of chrysanthemums has bloomed
And this time in my soul
The bright feeling of tender love had bored

chorus
Chrysanthemums in this garden had faded a long ago
yo-yo
But the love still alive
In my sick heart
Yo-yo

I mean best that happend with this franchise... are fans, true die hard fans
Not easy time for us again. Thank You all guys for Your faith! We ll carry the Flag!

 

[Brock Radunske]

Who does the blame fall on for RyJo's benching? Torts or Joey?

 

[EspenK]

Well, at least you were respectful about it.
It's not a systemic problem as much as a lack of talent problem. However, I will revise my comments so as not to blame the defense entirely for the offense's shortcomings.

lol. Actually your responses deserved respect.

If it's not systemic that kind of means that it's not something that happens with regularity.

If you want to state we are poor at stretch passes, I'll agree. I think you have some points, just not sure you're articulating them very well. However, we can move pretty well as a 5 man unit and some of the problems you were identifying are related to things that don't involve "talent".

There is enough talent on this team to compete. There is more talent on this team than we've had before. Personally I think a lot of our issues are with our decision making than talent issues.

Third man in:

Respectful yes, but fer crissakes learn to explain yourself better.