LeafalCrusader
Registered User
Its amazing how much better Enterprise handled the whole Isolationist/Xenophobia angle in the Terra Prime episodes as opposed to what they did in Picard.
Online Series: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Season 2 (LOWER DECK CROSSOVER ALERT)
- Thread starter Jumptheshark
- Start date
Its amazing how much better Enterprise handled the whole Isolationist/Xenophobia angle in the Terra Prime episodes as opposed to what they did in Picard.
Commander Clueless
Apathy of the Leaf
- Sep 10, 2008
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I'm interested to see what comes out of this one. Pike was excellent in Discovery. Not sure the franchise needed more Spock, but I'm not upset.
Also, despite some of the criticism I've seen online, I personally loved the new design of the original 1701 so I will enjoy seeing it in action again (presumably). I thought it was a fantastic marriage of the old and the new.
Of course, I've been initially interested in every show....and have been met by terrible writing at every turn.
I know everyone wants to make sagas that turn into the next Game of Thrones, but if they do make this show a bit more episodic, I think it will really work out in their favour....and that's not just on old Trek fan talking. Heck, I enjoy a good saga.
To me the biggest, most glaring flaw in Discovery and Picard isn't the lack of interesting ideas, it's tying those ideas together in either the most hamfisted way explained away with a line or two of nonsensical dialogue, or just dropping them entirely without explanation. I think a more episodic style would help these writers immensely in focusing their ideas.
Also, despite some of the criticism I've seen online, I personally loved the new design of the original 1701 so I will enjoy seeing it in action again (presumably). I thought it was a fantastic marriage of the old and the new.
Of course, I've been initially interested in every show....and have been met by terrible writing at every turn.
I know everyone wants to make sagas that turn into the next Game of Thrones, but if they do make this show a bit more episodic, I think it will really work out in their favour....and that's not just on old Trek fan talking. Heck, I enjoy a good saga.
To me the biggest, most glaring flaw in Discovery and Picard isn't the lack of interesting ideas, it's tying those ideas together in either the most hamfisted way explained away with a line or two of nonsensical dialogue, or just dropping them entirely without explanation. I think a more episodic style would help these writers immensely in focusing their ideas.
Blender
Registered User
- Dec 2, 2009
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If they want to go for serialized they should make it more like DS9. Have overarching story lines that last the entire season, but not every moment of every episode needs to be dedicated to the story line. Include more side mission stories, include character development stories as either part of the overall plot or as a side plot. DS9 often felt so organic because you had plot lines that lasted for years and covered a huge number of interesting characters, but they weren't all rushing to be finished.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
will be interesting where they set the time line of the show
I just rewatched season 2 and obviously they could set it during the 5-year mission they just came back from
I just rewatched season 2 and obviously they could set it during the 5-year mission they just came back from
Commander Clueless
Apathy of the Leaf
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DS9 is my favourite Trek series, and I think the style worked extremely well. It was sort of a hybrid between classic episodic and a saga.
I'm not 100% sure it will work as well in a 10-episode season, but I think it's worth a try.
Discovery and Picard just don't have me confident in this writing team's ability to bring a bunch of plot threads together. It's not that they lack interesting ideas, but they definitely lack focus. It's like someone trying to tell you a story but getting sidetracked with a ton of little side stories, and then trying to force them altogether in way that doesn't make sense plot-wise nor for character motivations.
If you have some closure within the episode itself, it makes it easier to tie in what you feel is relevant and let other plot threads be complete rather than just left hanging. Both Discovery and Picard suffered immensely from that problem IMO, and I think this style would fix a lot of that.
I don't know. I'm probably blathering on right now.
peate
Smiley
The writers must have been thinking ahead the whole time to make the "Prophets" such an integral part of Sisko's life. I mean, we find out late in the series that they impregnated his mother so that he would be born and fulfil his mission of defeating the Paraith. That's pretty good storytelling.
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
Same here. Haven't watched Discovery but Anson Mount was a juggernaut in Hell on Wheels. Him and the Swede carried that show.
Blender
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He completely carried Discovery season 2, which I was not at all surprised by.
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
Makes you wonder how bad Inhumans actually was when even an actor of Mount's caliber couldn't save it.
Commander Clueless
Apathy of the Leaf
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One thing I found interesting about Discovery was that it was touted as the first show that focused on a non-captain, but I still found the captains to be the most compelling characters - Lorca in season 1 and Pike in season 2.
Blender
Registered User
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They really picked the wrong lead for the show. She was not good at all in The Walking Dead, and I was shocked and pretty concerned for the quality of the show as soon as she was announced as the star. The terrible writing made things even worse.One thing I found interesting about Discovery was that it was touted as the first show that focused on a non-captain, but I still found the captains to be the most compelling characters - Lorca in season 1 and Pike in season 2.
Commander Clueless
Apathy of the Leaf
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I don't watch a lot of TV or movies so I can't really speak to the quality of acting but Burnam was a hard character to get behind....whether that was on writing or the actor is hard to say for me. Possibly both?
I do wonder if they had made her the captain if it wouldn't have been better as a lead character, since most of Trek revolves around who sits in the chair making the decisions. Maybe a disgraced captain after her actions to start the Klingon war, who was motivated to use Discovery to end the war everyone believed she was responsible for. It would really have helped flesh out some motivations for her character that were...rather vague.
Although then we would've potentially missed out on Lorca's pretty cool story line (at least until the end) and maybe missed out on Pike's appearance and spin-off.
LeafalCrusader
Registered User
Burnham is such a bad character there's really no actor out there that could get anything out of that turd. They wrote her so cold wooden and unlikeable in season 1 and then in season 2 they had her crying all over the place over the death of side characters whose names we don't even remember (I want to say Lt Daft Punk?).
They pretty much turned her into Poochie from the Simpsons with the access to a time machine and all the other characters asking where's Poochie when she's not on the screen lol.
I wouldn't say that Mount "saved" Discovery Season 2. It's still pretty bad, just maybe a little more tolerable than Season 1 solely thanks to him.
One thing I found interesting about Discovery was that it was touted as the first show that focused on a non-captain, but I still found the captains to be the most compelling characters - Lorca in season 1 and Pike in season 2.
It's ironic. The producers likely wanted the series to star a black woman, but because they restricted themselves like that, settled for a mediocre actress and didn't write the character well, she got upstaged by her two white male co-leads. I doubt that that was the plan.
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ChaoticOrange
Registered User
That's fair.
And the second point is a good one. I'm all for equal opportunity across races/genders but for God's sake at least hire someone with talent.
It's really refreshing when it's a minority costar stealing the spotlight - see Iron Fist and the Colleen Wing character for a great example - but it's just not good when it's glaringly obvious that someone only got a role because the director and producers were trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
RobBrown4PM
Pringles?
- Oct 12, 2009
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STD and PIC advertise themselves as ensemble shows, but in reality they are one character shows. With STD you have Burnham, and in PIC you have Picard. Everyone else is dollar store salad dressing that's expired. That being said, you do get the occasional tasty bit (Mount and Issacs)
Blender
Registered User
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Discovery was definitely not an ensemble show, not even close. I still don't know most of the cast's names, characters or actors. Even at the start of TNG when they mostly did alien of the week episodes with little character development, they still focused on all the characters enough to know something about them.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Reveals Unexpected Khan Connection - Den of Geek
The writers just can't help themselves, can they?
The writers just can't help themselves, can they?
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The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
LOOK AT US! WE'RE REFERENCING THINGS YOU LIKE! THAT MEANS YOU'LL LIKE US TOO, RIGHT?!!?
It's already a show about the Cage crew. It doesn't need more clumsy fanservice.
You're going to be thrilled, then, with what else was announced:
Meet The Cast Of ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
That's at least halfway explainable because Pike's tenure as captain is right before Kirk's and it's not ridiculous that there would be some crew carryover. Uhura being there as a cadet instead of just letting her be an ensign is stupid (this is the same BS they did with Tilly. Just let them be fully commissioned) but it's not as bad as "oooh look, here's a mysterious character with a name that makes no sense to have show up except that we want you to go "I know that name!" and get excited when we eventually pull a nonsense plot out of our asses to justify her presence and then still have to work around why this wouldn't end up being a HUGE DEAL that would've tipped Kirk off to the name of Khan when he shows up in Space Seed."
Yeah, I completely cringed when I saw that. Knowing our luck, they'll make her totally emo
Pike - "So your grandfather was kha . . . "
Khan relative - "I hate him, I hate him, I hate him"
Pike - "Errr good talk"
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
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I really think the people running Trek nowadays don't like Shatner, and don't like the character of Kirk. (Notice he's always de-emphasized or left out of Star Trek celebration).
Strange New Worlds is basically a way to reboot TOS without Kirk while simultaneously having a more diverse cast.
Strange New Worlds is basically a way to reboot TOS without Kirk while simultaneously having a more diverse cast.
Jussi
Registered User
That's an absurd notion. Shatner doesn't want to go those things anymore. That one event in the 80's left a sour taste when he dropped some truth bombs and it didn't go well with the organizer.
