Online Series: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Season 2 (LOWER DECK CROSSOVER ALERT)

[Jumptheshark]

Another good episode.

Edit: the reason for lack of Pike, via Superherohype forums: Anson's child was born just as the season was about to start shooting so they wrote him out of the early season as much as possible as a result.

I like that they did that--it gave others a chance to to do stuff

 

[Jussi]

I like that they did that--it gave others a chance to to do stuff

Yeah, I felt this La'an centric episode was needed to flesh out her character. Also really liked how they played up how smart Kirk is, even though this one wasn't "our" younger Kirk.

 

[Blender]

Easily the best episode of the season and one of the best of the series so far.

La'an was a high point of season 1 and this was a fantastic character episode for us.

Even though it wasn't prime Kirk, it was still a far better depiction of the character than the JJ Abrams movies.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Easily the best episode of the season and one of the best of the series so far.

La'an was a high point of season 1 and this was a fantastic character episode for us.

Even though it wasn't prime Kirk, it was still a far better depiction of the character than the JJ Abrams movies.

One winge and it is a small one

It seems that star trek may have up to 5 different time lines going on right now

 

[Blender]

One winge and it is a small one

It seems that star trek may have up to 5 different time lines going on right now

The canon of Star Trek was blown up pretty bad with Discovery and was damaged with Enterprise already. On top of the terrible JJ Abrams movie-verse.

Who even knows what is going on with these prequel timelines anymore.

 

[Jussi]

The canon of Star Trek was blown up pretty bad with Discovery and was damaged with Enterprise already. On top of the terrible JJ Abrams movie-verse.

Who even knows what is going on with these prequel timelines anymore.

The whole Kelvin timeline creation in the first movie really borked things up. I have to give credit to Star Trek Online developers for somehow managing to navigate throughout all shows and managing to incorporate them in to the game's constantly updating new Episodes.

 

[Blender]

Plots have been a bit up and down, but season 2 has been pretty good so far from the character side of things.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Let just drop james T kirk into this week--also--the band at the end--I was waiting for the Star Wars band music to kick in

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Didn't like that last episode with Spock. Ethan Peck's Spock is my least favorite part of the show.

 

[Lshap]

Didn't like that last episode with Spock. Ethan Peck's Spock is my least favorite part of the show.

IMO, the problem isn't the actor, it's the writers who keep trying to deflower Spock. This week he's happy. Next week he's horny. Last week he's freakin' human. It's like a fetish to make him anything BUT a Vulcan.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

IMO, the problem isn't the actor, it's the writers who keep trying to deflower Spock. This week he's happy. Next week he's horny. Last week he's freakin' human. It's like a fetish to make him anything BUT a Vulcan.

Actor, writers, creative team, whoever they are definitely butchering the character.

 

[Jumptheshark]

 

[Blender]

I'm not sure if Paul Wesley is quite nailing the charm aspect of Kirk's personality, but they have nailed the characterization of him at least. He's a highly educated, highly competent career focused person who is driven by a need to help other people. Whoever wrote this episode has watched The City on the Edge of Forever I assume, as they really hit home that helpful and supportive part of this character.

"Let me help. A hundred years or so from now, I believe, a famous novelist will write a classic using that theme. He'll recommend those three words even over I love you."

Even mocking the man-whore meme that Kirk is often portrayed as was a good nod.

Typical Hollywood though there's like a 40 year old playing a 25 year old.

 

[Tawnos]

IMO, the problem isn't the actor, it's the writers who keep trying to deflower Spock. This week he's happy. Next week he's horny. Last week he's freakin' human. It's like a fetish to make him anything BUT a Vulcan.

The struggle between Spock's two sides has been part of Star Trek since TOS. Spock, as portrayed by Nimoy, doesn't really resolve the struggle until ST IV. It makes sense that he's not as able to consistently "be Vulcan" in SNW as he was in TOS. It's a 7-8 year gap.

It's the same complaint as people have with Rings of Power (other issues aside, just talking about this one complaint)... Galadriel isn't the Galadriel we know! No shit... part of any prequel story is about how the characters become the people we know later on.

 

[Blender]

The struggle between Spock's two sides has been part of Star Trek since TOS. Spock, as portrayed by Nimoy, doesn't really resolve the struggle until ST IV. It makes sense that he's not as able to consistently "be Vulcan" in SNW as he was in TOS. It's a 7-8 year gap.

It's the same complaint as people have with Rings of Power (other issues aside, just talking about this one complaint)... Galadriel isn't the Galadriel we know! No shit... part of any prequel story is about how the characters become the people we know later on.

IMO, the problem isn't the actor, it's the writers who keep trying to deflower Spock. This week he's happy. Next week he's horny. Last week he's freakin' human. It's like a fetish to make him anything BUT a Vulcan.

I think the underlying issue here is that this seems to be the only character development Nu Trek writers can manage to do for Spock. A minimal emotion Spock is a difficult character to write for, so they so often go the easy route and just do emotional stories with the character.

 

[Tawnos]

I think the underlying issue here is that this seems to be the only character development Nu Trek writers can manage to do for Spock. A minimal emotion Spock is a difficult character to write for, so they so often go the easy route and just do emotional stories with the character.

I don't know if it's laziness so much as that's the most interesting and appealing aspect of the Spock character, so that's where they'll go with it most often. Complaining about it is a bit like complaining about how most of the Worf-centered episodes in TNG have to do with some aspect of Klingon honor.

 

[Lshap]

The struggle between Spock's two sides has been part of Star Trek since TOS. Spock, as portrayed by Nimoy, doesn't really resolve the struggle until ST IV. It makes sense that he's not as able to consistently "be Vulcan" in SNW as he was in TOS. It's a 7-8 year gap.

It's the same complaint as people have with Rings of Power (other issues aside, just talking about this one complaint)... Galadriel isn't the Galadriel we know! No shit... part of any prequel story is about how the characters become the people we know later on.

SNW Spock isn't much younger than Nimoy's Spock from TOS. However, the difference in temperament is... fascinating. SNW isn't content to let Spock be an authentic Vulcan – even one who's struggling with dual citizenship. The character keeps being prodded with an Emotion Of The Week, not because it's an organic part of his development, but because the writers simply enjoy having Spock lose his cool. Seriously... how much focus do we need on the sexual attraction between Spock and Christine Chapel? Do we really need weekly displays of anger, happiness, or cute 'human-isms'?

What made Nimoy's Spock so great was his human side remained submerged and barely perceptible. We got hints and an occasional peek, but he was clearly a Vulcan. Peck's character lacks that balance; he's as human as he is Vulcan. Part of the challenge for recent Trek is that very few actors have the gravitas necessary to make Vulcans feel authentically alien, as Nimoy did. Nimoy went beyond playing a character, he created an archetype. Very hard to reach that gold standard.

The other problem is the systemic and ultra-annoying fetish of writing dialogue in the style of Marvel universe films, where everyone is funny and casual. Captain Pike addresses aliens with "Hi!". Good grief.

 

[Tawnos]

SNW Spock isn't much younger than Nimoy's Spock from TOS. However, the difference in temperament is... fascinating. SNW isn't content to let Spock be an authentic Vulcan – even one who's struggling with dual citizenship. The character keeps being prodded with an Emotion Of The Week, not because it's an organic part of his development, but because the writers simply enjoy having Spock lose his cool. Seriously... how much focus do we need on the sexual attraction between Spock and Christine Chapel? Do we really need weekly displays of anger, happiness, or cute 'human-isms'?

What made Nimoy's Spock so great was his human side remained submerged and barely perceptible. We got hints and an occasional peek, but he was clearly a Vulcan. Peck's character lacks that balance; he's as human as he is Vulcan. Part of the challenge for recent Trek is that very few actors have the gravitas necessary to make Vulcans feel authentically alien, as Nimoy did. Nimoy went beyond playing a character, he created an archetype. Very hard to reach that gold standard.

The other problem is the systemic and ultra-annoying fetish of writing dialogue in the style of Marvel universe films, where everyone is funny and casual. Captain Pike addresses aliens with "Hi!". Good grief.

I think you're both exaggerating how much of this goes on in SNW, how little of it went on in TOS, and underestimating how much development on a journey like that can take place in 7 years. I find that third one strange considering how much character development we see in 7 years of other TV shows, including Star Trek ones. Those 7 years are 20% of the TOS Spock's life and most people, Vulcans or humans, are more settled into themselves in their mid-late 30s than they were in their late 20s. You see this in T'Pring too, who is clearly further along than Spock, but not where older Vulcans are either.

I agree that SNW Spock lacks the balance of TOS Spock, but that's literally the point. Spock worked hard to get to even that level of balance, which ultimately isn't as balanced as he wants it to be. It didn't just happen. It doesn't just happen for any Vulcan and it's even harder for Spock. The work he's trying to do in that direction is a running thing in SNW. The fact that he isn't as good at it is actually really solid writing and acting all around.

 

[Osprey]

I think you're both exaggerating how much of this goes on in SNW, how little of it went on in TOS, and underestimating how much development on a journey like that can take place in 7 years. I find that third one strange considering how much character development we see in 7 years of other TV shows, including Star Trek ones. Those 7 years are 20% of the TOS Spock's life and most people, Vulcans or humans, are more settled into themselves in their mid-late 30s than they were in their late 20s. You see this in T'Pring too, who is clearly further along than Spock, but not where older Vulcans are either.

I agree that SNW Spock lacks the balance of TOS Spock, but that's literally the point. Spock worked hard to get to even that level of balance, which ultimately isn't as balanced as he wants it to be. It didn't just happen. It doesn't just happen for any Vulcan and it's even harder for Spock. The work he's trying to do in that direction is a running thing in SNW. The fact that he isn't as good at it is actually really solid writing and acting all around.

I think that you're exaggerating how much pronounced emotion Spock shows in TOS. It's restricted to a handful of episodes, at most, and it's usually because Spock is under the influence of something, like the contagious madness in The Naked Time or the spores in This Side of Paradise. Now, I haven't seen this season of SNW yet, but if he's showing pronounced emotion practically every week, then that's way more often than in TOS, and I'm guessing that it's not because Spock is under the influence of anything because you're chalking it up to the immaturity of his character.

Also, I wouldn't say that TOS (or later) Spock is balanced. His whole character is defined as heavily suppressing his human side. That's why it leaks out only very rarely. It think that it's plausible that he was once more emotional and learned to control it, but more during his child and teen years. I don't buy that he learned to control it only in his 30s. Not even all humans take that long and Spock is only half human and very smart. I've always thought of him an overachiever, like 15 year olds who graduate high school early. In addition to being very smart for their age, they tend to be very mature for their age. The idea that Spock can't control his emotions even late into his 20s, despite his incredible intelligence, goes against what his character is all about to me. Besides, TOS Kirk never mentions how emotional Spock was when he first met him. He acts like it's the Spock that he's always know.

 

[Tawnos]

I think that you're exaggerating how much pronounced emotion Spock shows in TOS. It's restricted to a handful of episodes, at most, and it's usually because Spock is under the influence of something, like the contagious madness in The Naked Time or the spores in This Side of Paradise. Now, I haven't seen this season of SNW yet, but if he's showing pronounced emotion practically every week, then that's way more often than in TOS, and I'm guessing that it's not because Spock is under the influence of anything because you're chalking it up to the immaturity of his character.

Also, I wouldn't say that TOS (or later) Spock is balanced. His whole character is defined as heavily suppressing his human side. That's why it leaks out only very rarely. It think that it's plausible that he was once more emotional and learned to control it, but more during his child and teen years. I don't buy that he learned to control it only in his 30s. Not even all humans take that long and Spock is only half human and very smart. I've always thought of him an overachiever, like 15 year olds who graduate high school early. In addition to being very smart for their age, they tend to be very mature for their age. The idea that Spock can't control his emotions even late into his 20s, despite his incredible intelligence, goes against what his character is all about to me. Besides, TOS Kirk never mentions how emotional Spock was when he first met him. He acts like it's the Spock that he's always know.

No it’s the same dynamic as TOS. Spock loses control under the influence of some outside force and his emotions come through the surface occasionally the rest of the time. Those occasions are a little more often and a little more pronounced, but that’s what I’m saying about this being a process. He’s not keeping things as suppressed as he will be in another several years.

“This character never mentioned it” is not an argument that will score any points with me.

 

[Osprey]

No it’s the same dynamic as TOS. Spock loses control under the influence of some outside force and his emotions come through the surface occasionally the rest of the time. Those occasions are a little more often and a little more pronounced, but that’s what I’m saying about this being a process. He’s not keeping things as suppressed as he will be in another several years.

There's a big difference between it happening every 20 episodes and it happening almost every episode, though.

“This character never mentioned it” is not an argument that will score any points with me.

That's fair, but "the character seems out of character because it's a different point in his life" is an argument that doesn't fly with me.

 

[Lshap]

I think you're both exaggerating how much of this goes on in SNW, how little of it went on in TOS, and underestimating how much development on a journey like that can take place in 7 years. I find that third one strange considering how much character development we see in 7 years of other TV shows, including Star Trek ones. Those 7 years are 20% of the TOS Spock's life and most people, Vulcans or humans, are more settled into themselves in their mid-late 30s than they were in their late 20s. You see this in T'Pring too, who is clearly further along than Spock, but not where older Vulcans are either.

I agree that SNW Spock lacks the balance of TOS Spock, but that's literally the point. Spock worked hard to get to even that level of balance, which ultimately isn't as balanced as he wants it to be. It didn't just happen. It doesn't just happen for any Vulcan and it's even harder for Spock. The work he's trying to do in that direction is a running thing in SNW. The fact that he isn't as good at it is actually really solid writing and acting all around.

Whatever logical reasons we apply to a fictional character's behaviour, the only measure is whether it works dramatically or not. I'm glad the current Spock character works for you. It doesn't for me. In the same way I wouldn't be interested in watching an entire series about Walter White before he broke bad, I'm not interested in an under-developed, overly-hormonal Spock. I think the many emotional gags are cheap writing, you think it's an accurate depiction of a less mature Spock. Either way, I just can't get into the beta version of this character. He may eventually become the iconic character we love, but right now he's just not that interesting.

 

[Mimsy]

The Lower Decks crossover episode airs tonight. Paramount released it early.

I notice from previews there's a musical episode coming up. Musicals are definitely not my thing, but I won't pre-judge. I like that they're willing to explore anything. Really enjoying the season so far.

 

[johnjm22]

I find the show very difficult to watch.

It's Star Trek, once again, looking backwards instead of forwards.

It's a delivery vehicle for nostalgia; a means of giving you familiar names like Kirk and Spock. That's all the show has to offer really.

The "optimism" it portrays is fake. It's a deeply cynical show.

 

[Jumptheshark]

The cross over drop tonight (sunday) at about 11pm Eastern Standard time---it may drop earlier knowing Paramount