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Pre-Game Talk: Stanley Cup Final: New York Rangers vs. Los Angeles Kings

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Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Like how this board gave the 2012 Devils respect?

Give me a break.
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I'm a person who doesn't think the team who wins the cup/championship in any league is the "best" team. The 2012 Devils were not one of the best teams in the league, and if the Habs beat us and went to the Finals they would not be one of the best teams in the league. The 07 Giants were not better than the 07 Pats, etc.

Kings and Rangers proved for long stretches of the season they WERE two of the best teams in the league.
 
someone stole hank said:
Btw if anyone watched the game last night you would notice two things the commentators were pointing out

1.by the time the third period came every king player were gasping for air when they got back to the bench

2. The kings were rolling 3 lines not 4
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That said I don't think you can count on the Kings playing tired. They'll give it their all until they collapse on the ice, it's how they've made it this far. You have to make them tire themselves out, not just expect them to be tired. Make them work, make them play defense. It's so much more tiring to play defense than offense.

I think the days off the Rangers got do count for something...all the bumps and bruises have a bit more time to heal, guys can take a second to catch their breath and recharge, but you have to put it to good use and not expect the other team to just roll over
 
BrianBoyle said:
Voynov is NOT that good. IMO, he's one of the more overrated players around the league. Everyone seems to drool over him, I don't understand it. Solid player, but he's not as good as Girardi, Staal, or Stralman, IMO. Muzzin is a product of Doughty. He's very dangerous offensively, I'll give him that.

Martinez is a very good defenseman, but outside of him, the other four do not worry me at all.
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Fair enough. I think Voynoy's propensity for moving the puck blows any guy we have out of the water, but defensively I do take Staal, G and Stralsy over him.

I don't think Muzzin is a product of Doughty. I think he's an elite second pairing d-man who has a great gig next to an elite player, kind of like Girardi but with significantly more offense.

If i'm ranking the bluelines I go McD=Doughty, Muzzin>G, Staal<Voynoy, Stralman, Klein and Moore<The rest of their blueline.
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
I'm a person who doesn't think the team who wins the cup/championship in any league is the "best" team. The 2012 Devils were not one of the best teams in the league, and if the Habs beat us and went to the Finals they would not be one of the best teams in the league. The 07 Giants were not better than the 07 Pats, etc.

Kings and Rangers proved for long stretches of the season they WERE two of the best teams in the league.
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Is there another way to determine the "best" team? I think every way is subjective except for the team who wins the last game is the best team that season. I do not see any other way of objectively determining which team was the best, and if a team was the best, why couldn't it beat inferior teams? Sorry, I've always thought the winner was the best.
 
Fletch said:
Is there another way to determine the "best" team? I think every way is subjective except for the team who wins the last game is the best team that season. I do not see any other way of objectively determining which team was the best, and if a team was the best, why couldn't it beat inferior teams? Sorry, I've always thought the winner was the best.
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Fair enough, and it's hard to argue otherwise.

In the age of statistical analysis, though, I think there are a lot of measures we can apply to teams to see how well they do certain things. In Hockey, 82 games is a significantly better sample size to gauge who is the "best" over a 28 game (at the most) playoffs. For example, I think the Bruins are better than the Habs, and might even still be better than the Rangers.
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
Fair enough. I think Voynoy's propensity for moving the puck blows any guy we have out of the water, but defensively I do take Staal, G and Stralsy over him.

I don't think Muzzin is a product of Doughty. I think he's an elite second pairing d-man who has a great gig next to an elite player, kind of like Girardi but with significantly more offense.

If i'm ranking the bluelines I go McD=Doughty, Muzzin>G, Staal<Voynoy, Stralman, Klein and Moore<The rest of their blueline.
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Disagree with Staal > Voynov. IMO guys like toffoli and Pearson will make him look bad out there like the Habs exposed him last round. It's up to Stralman to cover for his shortcomings.... Again.
 
I do understand what you're getting at, but I think the way in which sports is setup clearly defines who the best player is. The regular season is just that. An 82 game grind that sets yourself up for the finals which could be up to 28 games. However, those playoff games are now played against the "top" competition from the prior subset of 82 games and now the competition has gotten tougher. A lot happens and to say the winning team isn't the best is saying that "on paper" another team is better. I think the better teams prevail, and that's not just the talent on a piece of paper. There's a mental toughness to the grind. There are physical aspects. Guys are hurt. Guys are tired. The "best" players aren't always the "best", but what good are they when they can't pull it out in the end? Again, I definitely hear what you're saying. Boston was better than Montreal, but they lost, so Montreal is better than Boston. I'm not bright enough to look at it any other way.
 
Mint said:
Disagree with Staal > Voynov. IMO guys like toffoli and Pearson will make him look bad out there like the Habs exposed him last round. It's up to Stralman to cover for his shortcomings.... Again.
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The only reason staal struggled was for the small forwards.. it's hard to use your long reach when their small and up on you.. staal thrives on big guys

If anything stralman will be exposed.. he gets soft sometimes
 
IMO, it's uncanny how evenly matched our bluelines are.

At the top, I would give the edge to Doughty over McD but just barely. It's pretty much equal in the grand scheme of things.

Muzzin/Voynov vs Staal/Girardi. the former are better offensively. the latter are better defensively. It's not an easy thing to compare but given the choice, I would take the two defensively sounder guys who, oh also happen to have "all-star defensemen" on their resume too.

Mitchell vs Stralman - kinda equal
Martinez/Green vs. Moore/Klein - Martinez > Moore. Klein > Green. I call that kinda equal too. I think the key to this matchup is if we can spend more time in their zone than they can spend in our zone though, the advantage definitely tips in our favor.

fitness & fatigue - again, if we can spend more time in their zone, we'll be wearing down an already battered and tired blueline. I expect the Kings to be in great shape under Coach Sutter, but they've been on a physically AND mentally crushing journey on their way to the finals. We have a great chance to make things very uncomfortable for them by establishing punishing pressure on them from the get go. I think Philly really brought the heat in game 4 and it wasn't till game 7 I thought the Rangers really adjusted and stepped up to the physical play.

Even if Quick isn't looking super strong, we shouldn't overlook that the Kings led the regular season in Goals Against. They KNOW how to play defense. Also not to be overlooked is with the exception of Muzzin for Scuderi, they have the exact blueline lineup as they did when the won the cup. That is a well oiled machine. I actually think a lot of this is going to have to do with AV outcoaching Sutter so that also gives me a little more hope.
 
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Mint said:
Disagree with Staal > Voynov. IMO guys like toffoli and Pearson will make him look bad out there like the Habs exposed him last round. It's up to Stralman to cover for his shortcomings.... Again.
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The same way it was Stralman who covered for Staal as Staal was absolutely demolishing Crosby? Oh wait...
 
So glad it's two TEAM based teams instead of "super stars" like Crosby malkin Toews kane etc. It's just proving it takes a team effort to win the cup
 
I just read through the Kings thread on their board...my god. They think our team sucks. I'm ****ing pumped now. I want this so bad.
 
BrianBoyle said:
Their blueline outside of Doughty does not impress me in the slightest.
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I like Muzzin, Voynov and Martinez, and if Regehr is ready, they are as good as the Rangers D, in my opinion, whether they impress you or not.

That is not a weak group, by any stretch of the imagination. Kreider and Hagelin will be their toughest problem because of speed, but our D will have just as many tough match-ups as theirs.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
I mean, its fun to joke about it, but I dont think you'll find many good arguments that the east was better than the west this year as a whole.
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That's the thing though: who, anywhere, is saying the East is better? No one, and I mean no one, was saying the East is better this season. But did you see over time on the East/Wales side ever diminish the West/Campbell? Did anyone complain when Gretzky was racking up points and Edmonton was scoring 400-plus goals a season against fodder. Did anyone on either side say anything when Edmonton had pretty much a bye to the Finals back then, typically not seeing a team with a winning record till round 2 or 3? The East (Wales) was better for decades, and the road to the Cup was a nightmare in comparison, yet no one diminished or ridiculed the MUCH weaker conference for making it to the Cup or winning it.

But now you have some West fans making excuses for potentially losing before the series even starts. "If we lose, we had a tougher schedule getting to the Final. We're bushed." :cry: Boo hoo hoo, but the East/Campbell was in that spot for decades and the disparity between conferences was vastly wider then than now. Just that no one cried about it. To me, now, there is more parity league wide than ever before and there is no easy path, on either side. Any team can get hot and be formidable. And last I checked, Mtl and NY had to knock off 2 of the last 5 Cup winners to get where they got.
 
BlueshirtBlitz said:
I'm a person who doesn't think the team who wins the cup/championship in any league is the "best" team. The 2012 Devils were not one of the best teams in the league, and if the Habs beat us and went to the Finals they would not be one of the best teams in the league. The 07 Giants were not better than the 07 Pats, etc.

Kings and Rangers proved for long stretches of the season they WERE two of the best teams in the league.
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You're the second poster here I have seen that believes winning doesn't make you the best. That your opinion trumps results.

Whoever wins is the best team at that point in time. That is all that matters. If the Rangers win the Cup and other fans say the Rangers are not the best team, I will guess you will disagree with them.
 
The Rangers have given up 9 PPGs in the playoffs. Six to the Flyers. 1 to the Penguins. Pittsburgh had 6 PPGs against Columbus. 2 to Montreal. The Habs had 12 PPGs in the playoffs. 2 against Tampa Bay. 8 against Boston. LA has scored 17 PPGs. The Rangers have 11 PPGs. LA was 6 for 19 against Chicago the PP. 31.5%. Chicago was 6 for 22 against LA on the PP. 27%. LA has given up 15 PPGs. The Rangers did a good job shutting down the Penguins and Habs on the power play after they averaged at least one power play goal per game in their previous series. The Hawks had 12 PPGs in the playoffs. 6 of them came against the Kings. The Rangers will get their looks on the PP. Ulf Samuelsson runs the PK. He made the proper adjustments in the last two series.
 
haohmaru said:
I don't respect the Devils no matter what because I hate them. That's a bit different.

I respect the Oiler's 8th seed that made it to the Final. That's more to the point.
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Well, if your point is going to be so silly and bias, its probably important to remember a lot of hockey fans hate the Rangers.
 
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