GDT: St Louis @ Toronto - 7pm - TSN

[ACC1224]

Enjoy

Honestly don't mind going but find I've really started dreading going into the city.
I'd be happy on the couch for this one.

 

[Da Mash]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849280977706623419

 

[Fogelhund]

Honestly don't mind going but find I've really started dreading going into the city.
I'd be happy on the couch for this one.

Ya... I'm out in Binbrook... I hate having to go to Toronto now... it seems like it's a two hour journey in now, with accidents and all.

 

[ACC1224]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849280977706623419

What does that mean?

 

[Optimist]

It's a rare and unique situation for me tonight where another televised sporting event trumps a Leafs game. I'll be watching the first half of the Leafs game before switching over to watch my 5 and 1 Minnesota Vikings taking on the LA Rams on Thursday night football. It will also be only the second time ever watching on Amazon Prime Video, both occurring this week. I'll watch the rest of the Leafs game after football and look forward to reading a positive post game thread after that. Go Leafs! And Vikings!!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Stolarz gets his normal start so we can keep a hot goalie hot, and Woll goes in vs Boston on the rotation. You know, run a meritocracy, not be dictated to by the size of a 3 year $11 million contract with a guy with less than 40 games of NHL experience and is never reliable...

Woll isn't getting in because of his contract. He's getting in because he's healthy, and he needs to play games and get into the flow of the season. We've also overplayed Stolarz relative to what he's used to, and we could use him in a more important divisional rival game on Saturday. You're creating controversy out of nothing. If we can't rely on Woll, and Stolarz crumbles to dust because he has 4 days off, we're screwed anyway.

 

[wingman75]

Woll isn't getting in because of his contract. He's getting in because he's healthy, and he needs to play games and get into the flow of the season. We've also overplayed Stolarz relative to what he's used to, and we could use him in a more important divisional rival game on Saturday. You're creating controversy out of nothing. If we can't rely on Woll, and Stolarz crumbles to dust because he has 4 days off, we're screwed anyway.

Here here! This is also backed up by a previous post in this thread!

Pre-Game Talk: - St Louis @ Toronto - 7pm - TSN

Josh Woll starting against St. Louis confirmed

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Fogelhund]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849280977706623419

The fourth line hasn't been good enough... now a little bit of context... Holmberg has 87% Dzone starts, Lorentz 84.2% and Kampf 78.6%... but, around 70% of their shift starts are on the fly.

I don't think Holmberg is a guy who is going to make a fourth line work at all. I'd really try and leverage Utah, and move out Lilly and Kampf, and bring in McBain. I think Holmberg has more potential in him, and there has been flashes, but I think he's caught out in a numbers game. I'd love to bring in Mathieu Olivier as the RW on the fourth line. Lorentz-McBain-Olivier would make a sizable, physical fourth line, that could also pitch in offensively decent enough.

 

[Stephen]

Woll isn't getting in because of his contract. He's getting in because he's healthy, and he needs to play games and get into the flow of the season. We've also overplayed Stolarz relative to what he's used to, and we could use him in a more important divisional rival game on Saturday. You're creating controversy out of nothing. If we can't rely on Woll, and Stolarz crumbles to dust because he has 4 days off, we're screwed anyway.

Ideally, Woll should get in line for the rotation because Stolarz shouldn't be sitting for 2 games in a row with his level of play. Frankly, I don't really like investing in Woll anyway because he's going to be a bandaid when you need him anyway. Do not have trust in him, his ability to stay healthy, or even the details of his injuries.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ideally, Woll should get in line for the rotation because Stolarz shouldn't be sitting for 2 games in a row with his level of play. Frankly, I don't really like investing in Woll anyway because he's going to be a bandaid when you need him anyway. Do not have trust in him, his ability to stay healthy, or even the details of his injuries.

Woll is in his rotation spot. Stolarz played Monday. Hildeby played Tuesday. Woll plays Thursday. Then it goes back to Stolarz for Saturday. That's called a rotation.
Ideally, Woll starts his season as soon as possible. Stolarz having 4 days off and playing the more important game is perfectly fine. He's used to it.
What you have trust in or what you like investing in doesn't really matter. Team invested in him. He's been good when healthy. He's healthy. They're going to use him.

 

[Stephen]

Woll is in his rotation spot. Stolarz played Monday. Hildeby played Tuesday. Woll plays Thursday. Then it goes back to Stolarz for Saturday. That's called a rotation.
Ideally, Woll starts his season as soon as possible. Stolarz having 4 days off and playing the more important game is perfectly fine. He's used to it.
What you have trust in or what you like investing in doesn't really matter. Team invested in him. He's been good when healthy. He's healthy. They're going to use him.

We don't have a 1A, 1B and 1C so this should have gone Stolarz and then Woll again.

The team's investment in Woll is basically the Petr Mrazek contract. 3 years, south of $12 million. Doesn't really require any special consideration and if Stolarz can be more reliable, available and continue on his trajectory it doesn't really matter. What Woll needs to do to earn trust is to actually stay healthy, continue to play well in rotation. We also have no idea what his level of injury is. Is he severely injured all the time, or is he a guy that doesn't go if he's below a certain % of health? No idea what it is but we can't put our eggs into the basket of a guy who can't start a Game 7 or a Game 1.

 

[notbias]

View attachment 920877

The fourth line hasn't been good enough... now a little bit of context... Holmberg has 87% Dzone starts, Lorentz 84.2% and Kampf 78.6%... but, around 70% of their shift starts are on the fly.

I don't think Holmberg is a guy who is going to make a fourth line work at all. I'd really try and leverage Utah, and move out Lilly and Kampf, and bring in McBain. I think Holmberg has more potential in him, and there has been flashes, but I think he's caught out in a numbers game. I'd love to bring in Mathieu Olivier as the RW on the fourth line. Lorentz-McBain-Olivier would make a sizable, physical fourth line, that could also pitch in offensively decent enough.

Holmberg has been fine on the 4th line away from Reaves.

Robertson-Tavares-Holmberg has sucked, that is why his numbers are so low.

Reaves doesn't have a line he is on at over 50% xGF.

I also think zone start is overrated since ~70% of all shifts start on the fly.

Lorentz-Kampf-Holmberg was fine.

We don't have a 1A, 1B and 1C so this should have gone Stolarz and then Woll again.

They probably want to start getting Woll back into the swing of things and play him against a lesser opponent.

What is the issue?

We had a starter and a backup while Woll was out, and now we have a tandem (may change), so why not use them as a tandem?

1A is currently playing the better team.

 

[Fogelhund]

Ideally, Woll should get in line for the rotation because Stolarz shouldn't be sitting for 2 games in a row with his level of play. Frankly, I don't really like investing in Woll anyway because he's going to be a bandaid when you need him anyway. Do not have trust in him, his ability to stay healthy, or even the details of his injuries.

He was in line for this game in the rotation, as had been planned for a bit.

"He's been obviously progressing in the right direction for some time now, and we kind of had this date picked out that he would get this start," said Maple Leafs head coach Craig Berube.

It isn't a choice to invest in Woll at this juncture. We are already invested, and have a buy and hold strategy. It's time to try and make this work, and hope he can find a way to stay healthy. Murray has been just ok with the Marlies, and Hildeby still needs some time with the Marlies. It's out best option. It's odd that you have a problem with the details of his injury... they don't need to be transparent to us.

He's going to play, and have the opportunity to play have the games if he's good... and we shall see where this goes. No amount of complaining will change that.

 

[CincoHolio]

My feeling is Woll has been elite when available, but inexplicably unavailable in big moments and it's frustrating. Standing on the outside it's hard to really understand these 3 week muscle issues, and when you factor in the last minute tweak in the last second of Game 6, he's basically not been able to play for something like six months, minus scrimmages, preseason periods here and there after a full summer off. These timelines aren't really all that typical and the lack of information makes it worse.

So I'm in zero mood to give this guy the hometown start if he's feeling good just because the game is in St. Louis.

Beat me to it. While since established it's a Leafs home game, that would've been terrible optics if the team somehow were to reward Woll with a hometown game. If anything, I would've denied him the opportunity if that scenario had the potential to play out. Not to mention Stolarz already was denied the chance to play at home because of Woll's unreliability.

Edit: for the record, I want Woll back and playing and succeeding. Just responding to the notion that the team somehow wanted to give Woll a start in SL after what has transpired so far this early in the season.

 

[notbias]

Ideally, Woll should get in line for the rotation because Stolarz shouldn't be sitting for 2 games in a row with his level of play. Frankly, I don't really like investing in Woll anyway because he's going to be a bandaid when you need him anyway. Do not have trust in him, his ability to stay healthy, or even the details of his injuries.

That's fine but the Leafs have all the information of his injuries, if he is ready, and a plan for him, and this is it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We don't have a 1A, 1B and 1C so this should have gone Stolarz and then Woll again.

We have a goalie that's played 5 games. We have a goalie that's played 0 games. In a rotation, you don't play until the other goalie has played. Woll hasn't played since Stolarz last played, and is ready. This makes way more sense to be given to Woll, which is why it was.

 

[Stephen]

That's fine but the Leafs have all the information of his injuries, if he is ready, and a plan for him, and this is it.

Long run, I think Stolarz will have a good shot at grabbing the 1 spot anyway, but my preference is to build that trust and momentum with someone who has the availability and won't pull an IR stint between Game 32 and 64 and leave everyone wondering.

 

[notbias]

Long run, I think Stolarz will have a good shot at grabbing the 1 spot anyway, but my preference is to build that trust and momentum with someone who has the availability and won't pull an IR stint between Game 32 and 64 and leave everyone wondering.

I don't disagree, Stolarz has been great and likely is my preferred choice currently.

They also just invested in Woll and must think very highly of him to do so.

Run the tandem, let both goalies play, and let them battle it out.

We don't know what Stolarz looks like with a heavy workload, 24 starts is the most he's had, and for reference, that is one more than Woll.

 

[Community]

It's a rare and unique situation for me tonight where another televised sporting event trumps a Leafs game. I'll be watching the first half of the Leafs game before switching over to watch my 5 and 1 Minnesota Vikings taking on the LA Rams on Thursday night football. It will also be only the second time ever watching on Amazon Prime Video, both occurring this week. I'll watch the rest of the Leafs game after football and look forward to reading a positive post game thread after that. Go Leafs! And Vikings!!

 

[Fogelhund]

Holmberg has been fine on the 4th line away from Reaves.

Robertson-Tavares-Holmberg has sucked, that is why his numbers are so low.

Reaves doesn't have a line he is on at over 50% xGF.

I also think zone start is overrated since ~70% of all shifts start on the fly.

Lorentz-Kampf-Holmberg was fine.

Robertson - Tavares - Holmberg xG% 20% Actual goal % 0%
Robertson - Tavares - Pacioretty xG% 70% Actual goal % 100%

Unfortunately, Lorentz - Kampf - Holmberg don't register on Money Puck, as they are just shy of 10 minutes.

Pacioretty - Holmberg - Roberton wasn't terrible either.

um	Time	%	Players	GF	GA	+/-	SF	SA	SF%	CF	CA	CF%
1	24:08	42.6	RYAN REAVES - DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ	0	2	-2	15	10	60.0	26	24	52.0
2	9:26	16.6	DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ - PONTUS HOLMBERG	0	1	-1	2	3	40.0	7	7	50.0
3	8:51	15.6	DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ - BOBBY MCMANN	2	0	2	6	1	85.7	10	15	40.0

Bottom line though...

Knies - Matthews - Marner is working very well... 5 goals for 3 against
McMann Domi Nylander has 5 goals for 1 against.
Robertson Tavares Pacioretty has also been quite good.

Which leaves the fourth line. Like I said, I think a Lorentz - McBain - Mathieu fourth line could be fantastic.

 

[notbias]

Robertson - Tavares - Holmberg xG% 20% Actual goal % 0%
Robertson - Tavares - Pacioretty xG% 70% Actual goal % 100%

Unfortunately, Lorentz - Kampf - Holmberg don't register on Money Puck, as they are just shy of 10 minutes.

Natural stat trick has their numbers, think it was just above 50% xGF and +2% rel xGF%.

Small sample size though.

Pacioretty - Holmberg - Roberton wasn't terrible either.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]um[/TH]
[TH]Time[/TH]
[TH]%[/TH]
[TH]Players[/TH]
[TH]GF[/TH]
[TH]GA[/TH]
[TH]+/-[/TH]
[TH]SF[/TH]
[TH]SA[/TH]
[TH]SF%[/TH]
[TH]CF[/TH]
[TH]CA[/TH]
[TH]CF%[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]24:08[/TD]
[TD]42.6[/TD]
[TD]RYAN REAVES - DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]60.0[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]52.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]9:26[/TD]
[TD]16.6[/TD]
[TD]DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ - PONTUS HOLMBERG[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]40.0[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]50.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]8:51[/TD]
[TD]15.6[/TD]
[TD]DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ - BOBBY MCMANN[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]85.7[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]40.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Bottom line though...

Knies - Matthews - Marner is working very well... 5 goals for 3 against
McMann Domi Nylander has 5 goals for 1 against.
Robertson Tavares Pacioretty has also been quite good.

Which leaves the fourth line. Like I said, I think a Lorentz - McBain - Mathieu fourth line could be fantastic.

I think you are underselling Kampf/Holmberg here, we have a capable 4th line already.

I also don't think McBain is available.

 

[Community]

Robertson - Tavares - Holmberg xG% 20% Actual goal % 0%
Robertson - Tavares - Pacioretty xG% 70% Actual goal % 100%

Unfortunately, Lorentz - Kampf - Holmberg don't register on Money Puck, as they are just shy of 10 minutes.

Pacioretty - Holmberg - Roberton wasn't terrible either.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]um[/TH]
[TH]Time[/TH]
[TH]%[/TH]
[TH]Players[/TH]
[TH]GF[/TH]
[TH]GA[/TH]
[TH]+/-[/TH]
[TH]SF[/TH]
[TH]SA[/TH]
[TH]SF%[/TH]
[TH]CF[/TH]
[TH]CA[/TH]
[TH]CF%[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]24:08[/TD]
[TD]42.6[/TD]
[TD]RYAN REAVES - DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]60.0[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]52.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]9:26[/TD]
[TD]16.6[/TD]
[TD]DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ - PONTUS HOLMBERG[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]40.0[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]50.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]8:51[/TD]
[TD]15.6[/TD]
[TD]DAVID KAMPF - STEVEN LORENTZ - BOBBY MCMANN[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]85.7[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]40.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Bottom line though...

Knies - Matthews - Marner is working very well... 5 goals for 3 against
McMann Domi Nylander has 5 goals for 1 against.
Robertson Tavares Pacioretty has also been quite good.

Which leaves the fourth line. Like I said, I think a Lorentz - McBain - Mathieu fourth line could be fantastic.

I think at this point (subject to change as we're not even 10 games in yet), Berube would be happy to try other players in place of Kampf, Holmberg, and Reaves.

Whether that's Jarnkrok, Dewar, Minten, a Marlie, and/or a future trade/waiver wire pickup remains to be seen.

If Domi can prove that he can work longterm at C (Or Nylander takes over and proves he can), it makes things a lot easier... Finding a quality 4th liner is a lot easier than a 2/3C.

Natural stat trick has their numbers, think it was just above 50% xGF and +2% rel xGF%.

Small sample size though.



I think you are underselling Kampf/Holmberg here, we have a capable 4th line already.

I also don't think McBain is available.

While it's subject to change, pur 4th line hasn't been good outside of the first 2 games or so. Improvements needed from the individuals or some of them will definitely be replaced. Berube has already benched Kampf and Reaves and called out Holmberg for not being good enough to start the season.

 

[LeafSteel]

Interesting goalie situation we have here.

I wished Hildeby had an opportunity for another start before being sent down, so he’s not going on a sour note, but he has succeeded in winning the 3 goalie position from Matt Murray, for now.

I think the plan from the beginning was 1A and 1B goalies, and it’s still very early.

Stolarz has been great but he hasn’t been a starting goalie before. I think he can still win the starting goalie position, but I don’t think they are there yet.

I’m the interim, Woll is part of the goalie tandem, and if healthy, should be given starts.

Personally would much rather Stolarz gets the Bruins. He represents the best opportunity to win and I always want to shove it to those dirty B’s…..

 

[Skullz]

It's a rare and unique situation for me tonight where another televised sporting event trumps a Leafs game. I'll be watching the first half of the Leafs game before switching over to watch my 5 and 1 Minnesota Vikings taking on the LA Rams on Thursday night football. It will also be only the second time ever watching on Amazon Prime Video, both occurring this week. I'll watch the rest of the Leafs game after football and look forward to reading a positive post game thread after that. Go Leafs! And Vikings!!

Haha, I have to juggle both of these today as well!

Go Leafs and Vikings! Hopefully not like last weekend where both lost.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Too much complaining about Woll IMO. The season just started, no point in worrying too much about who starts on any given night and if Woll's ready to go, then it's time for him to play. I'm not writing him off, his pro career just started and hopefully he'll be an all-star one of these days.

Maybe I'm the only one but I'm excited that Woll is playing tonight. The guy gave us the best playoff goaltending we've had since Belfour and is the most promising goalie prospect we've drafted/developed since Felix Potvin. Here's hoping Woll stays healthy, and continues on the trajectory he was on before getting derailed by injuries. Stolarz has been amazing, wouldn't it be something if we had two grade A goalies for the playoffs!

GLG!!