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Spengler Cup

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Pouchkine said:
Sochi 2014 Vancouver 2010 Torino 2006 were best on best yes absolutely, the tournament format was bad but that's another story. 1998 Russia was missing several top players and the same in 2002.

World Cup is the NHL All Star Game for NATIONS. It means nothing to most everyone including the players, just watch the games you will see 50% effort at best. It's a big cash grab for the nhlpa. The Canada Cup albeit a real homer tournament was 150% effort and classic games.

But back to the question what is your take on the 2005 Worlds in neutral venue when everyone had everyone available?

Because if you don't consider it best on best then you can't consider almost all the tournaments in history...

Hockey at the moment is the equivalent of tennis without Federer Nadal Djokovic= weak.

Canada is very good but not great, has been better before.
Russia is average, has always been much better.
Sweden is good but were better in the Forsberg years.
Finland is decent but lacking depth.
Czech are awful, never been worst.
Usa are decent, were way better before.

Don't brag too much about winning ugly in a weak era.

We had some "real" best on best in the 21st century but most tournaments were average and the quality of hockey was nowhere near, nor the rivalries that they were before...
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2005 Worlds -I've never considered any IIHF World Championship a true "best on best', but to your point, it would be very close, as it was the lockout year.
 
Rob said:
My dream is to have the WHC moved from May to September.
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Hockey in september worked before because of the Soviet-Canada rivalry. Canada literally had 3-4 weeks camps before the tournament and the Soviets were notoriously "always" in top shape and ready for those tournaments. Players don't care these days. The only time they really care for their country is at the U20 before they become rich and the glamour to be at the olympics...
 
RED ARMY EAST said:
2005 Worlds -I've never considered any IIHF World Championship a true "best on best', but to your point, it would be very close, as it was the lockout year.
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Why wouldn't it count? IIHF is the international federation for hockey? You care when it's done by the NHL-NHLPA or Hockey Canada only? What is this logic?

The players don't care about your micky mouse world cup, too bad I have to spoil it for you.

Soon you will write : it counts when I win, it doesn't count when I lose. Totalist propaganda there you go!

Imagine fans in soccer saying I don't care and don't rate best on best tournaments from FIFA and UEFA!!!!!
 
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Pouchkine said:
Hockey in september worked before because of the Soviet-Canada rivalry. Canada literally had 3-4 weeks camps before the tournament and the Soviets were notoriously "always" in top shape and ready for those tournaments. Players don't care these days. The only time they really care for their country is at the U20 before they become rich and the glamour to be at the olympics...
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Oh I think you're being too cynical towards the players. As far as I know the overwhelming majority wanted to play in the last Olympics.
As for the WHC it really lacks prestige here in North America. That is why so many turn it down. Perhaps a September move could would change that? Not going to happen obviously.
 
The future of international hockey isn't good. It was great during the Canada-Soviet rivalry, it's been really disapointing since.
 
I did not like Kal Pa's style but they played really well in the final and the shootout was drama filled and of high quality. Excellent goaltending from Fucale and Godla. It's pretty amazing that Fucale has not even been able to establish himself in the AHL. Hopefully he blooms late...if not I can see Europe calling.
 
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There's no reason for the 2005 WC in Vienna not to be considered a 'best on best' tournament. No interference with NHL schedule that year, all the players were available.
 
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ES said:
Aleksi Klemetti. Was in the Finnish U20 camp but was cut after the game against Denmark.
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Yup, but he would be better than many fowards on that U20 team. Klemetti would be part of the carrying force in current U20 roster. He has been performing all the time with high energy and skill. Last year there was also top prospect cut from U20 that was from KalPa. Kapanen needs to start to send brown letters. Or maybe its better to keep them playing FEL for KalPas sake, actually.
 
Pouchkine said:
I see 2 wins in the last 9 World Juniors.
About the same in the last 10 World Seniors.
2 gold in the last 4 olympics and silver in the big 2005 "Olympics" Worlds

That's very good but no domination unlike some troll posted earlier.

And no country at the moment is great. Russia was miles better before, Sweden were better before, Czechs are terrible these days, USA have been better. Canada is winning ugly in a weak era.
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Russia wasn't better. The Soviet Union absorbed Latvia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc. 2 or 3 players off those current teams make for a very different team that you are trying to call "Russia." Czechs were Czechoslovakia, which since you seem to not want to deal in facts, were the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Two teams now. Put them together and there is probably a good team.

Why no the last 10 U20s? Because then you have to acknowledge the 5 straight that preceded it.

I suggest you do one of two things: either look up the definition of ironic, or if that is unnecessary, be very careful when throwing out troll. Either way, you should understand, but if not, someone could explain it to you.
 
Voodoozz said:
There's no reason for the 2005 WC in Vienna not to be considered a 'best on best' tournament. No interference with NHL schedule that year, all the players were available.
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Look at Team Canada's roster and tell me its a best on best tournament lmao
 
jbobell98 said:
Look at Team Canada's roster and tell me its a best on best tournament lmao
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'Best on best' tournament means all the best players (NHLers) are available. And since there was that lockout thing going on in 2005, all NHLers were available. It was not the tournaments fault Hockey Canada failed to bring all the best players to the stage.
 
Voodoozz said:
'Best on best' tournament means all the best players (NHLers) are available. And since there was that lockout thing going on in 2005, all NHLers were available. It was not the tournaments fault Hockey Canada failed to bring all the best players to the stage.
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If we go by the other guy definition of best on best then it never happened any time in history. Every tournament someone was missing some key players for VARIOUS reasons. Best on best= soccer. But of course this guy doesn't know hockey history very well.

The 2005 tournament was more interesting than 2014 2010 2006 Olympic Games as well for a neutral.
 
Voodoozz said:
'Best on best' tournament means all the best players (NHLers) are available. And since there was that lockout thing going on in 2005, all NHLers were available. It was not the tournaments fault Hockey Canada failed to bring all the best players to the stage.
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You cant call it best on best of the best players arent there lmao. Thats why no one considers it a best on best tournament.
 
No one? Everyone except a few Canadians consider it a big tournament.

What do you consider best on best tournaments in hockey history? I want to see your list. Because apart from a couple tournament EVERY other one had absent nations or simply nations MISSING SOME OR SEVERAL KEY PLAYERS and sometimes basically B teams. Do your homework you will find proof of this easily.
 
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Hammer9001 said:
If I may inquire, why the heck is everyone arguing about IIHF International tournaments that have nothing to do with the Spengler Cup, in the Spengler Cup thread?
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I don't know this happened either. Would like to know the answer.
 
Yeah, it was a fun tournament this year, just could have used a few more goals. A lot of NHL prospects to watch though, Fabbro, Texier, Luostarinen, Dorofeyev, Klemetti.
 
Apparently Kalpa from Finland won this strange cup.

News coverage 404. Was told by a hardcore Kalpa fan over a beer.
 
Hey. Does anyone here know how the spengler cup organisation invite finnish team to the competition? Previous two years it has been the best finnish team that did not managed to get to CHL. Previous two years it had also been the team that would have been the next team in line to get to CHL, if Finland had more places in CHL. How ever CHL have changed the qualification rules and for the first time we are in a situation, where the best team that did not qualify to CHL is not the same team that would be first in line to CHL, if we have more places in CHL. So does Spengler Cup invite the best team from Finland that did not qualify for CHL or the teams that would be next in line for CHL, if Finland would have more places in that competition?

For clarification, in the final results HIFK is the best team that did not qualify for CHL, but according to CHL new rules TPS would be next in line for CHL, if Finland would have five place in that tournament.

Apparently according to the competitions own webpage Ambri-Piotta and Salavat Julaev UFA have already been invited.
 
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