Spencer Knight was in players assistance program to deal with OCD

[BLNY]

Take care of your mental health. Good for Spencer.

 

[HabzSauce]

Must be a goalie thing. I used to deal with it hardcore and took me long time to change.

Vokoun talked about something similar. May have been OCD as well.

I will say tho - as crappy as OCD is it took my game to a whole new level. It came on suddenly - smoked lots of weed in highschool so I think it messed with my development.

But anyways - when it did arrive, I also became hyperaware. Always in my own head analyzing everything to death. And because I felt like a different person than who I used to be prior to this, I was hyper worried of what others would think of me or if they noticed . So that's where the hyperawareness came from.

And real life day to day tasks did suck ass - constant anxiety non stop....but MAN on the ice I was dialed the F in. Focus hit a new level. All that BS translated so well into making me a better goalie from a mental perspective. It was crazy haha

 

[HabzSauce]

In a matter of a few years we went from guys playing on broken legs to others quitting on their team for this...

You're getting crapped on but you're right about the toughness we used to have compared to now.

Humans were a tougher breed. Since then it's felt like we got weaker due to environment/foods/tech&dopamine stimulus we get from social media and phones/etc....list goes on and on. Just my opinion.

OCD is no joke and I don't agree that Knight quit on his team. All I'm saying is 40-50 years ago, I don't think we had as many men dealing with stuff like depression/OCD/etc as we do today.

 

[Ezekial]

You're getting crapped on but you're right about the toughness we used to have compared to now.

Humans were a tougher breed. Since then it's felt like we got weaker due to environment/foods/tech&dopamine stimulus we get from social media and phones/etc....list goes on and on. Just my opinion.

OCD is no joke and I don't agree that Knight quit on his team. All I'm saying is 40-50 years ago, I don't think we had as many men dealing with stuff like depression/OCD/etc as we do today.

30 years ago they would've called him a f****t who washes his hands too much and said he was too weird for the team.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

You're getting crapped on but you're right about the toughness we used to have compared to now.

Humans were a tougher breed. Since then it's felt like we got weaker due to environment/foods/tech&dopamine stimulus we get from social media and phones/etc....list goes on and on. Just my opinion.

OCD is no joke and I don't agree that Knight quit on his team. All I'm saying is 40-50 years ago, I don't think we had as many men dealing with stuff like depression/OCD/etc as we do today.

When something isn't known or discussed (and openly shunned when it is discussed), it's easier to assume that it wasn't happening.

Two things to think about:

And:

 

[HabzSauce]

When something isn't known or discussed (and openly shunned when it is discussed), it's easier to assume that it wasn't happening.

Two things to think about:

View attachment 743790

And:

View attachment 743792

I agree it's wrong to assume things (and I'm not arguing that I'm correct).

But you have to think that mental evolution has been heavily influenced by all the tech we now have. Our attention spans for example have taken a massive hit. Men in the 60s for example didn't have this problem because there were no phones constantly supplying us with artificial dopamine

Our environment is a lot different today than what it used to be. It's only natural to assume we've changed mentally and physically compared to 50 years ago.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I agree it's wrong to assume things (and I'm not arguing that I'm correct).

But you have to think that mental evolution has been heavily influenced by all the tech we now have. Our attention spans for example have taken a massive hit. Men in the 60s for example didn't have this problem because there were no phones constantly supplying us with artificial dopamine

Our environment is a lot different today than what it used to be. It's only natural to assume we've changed mentally and physically compared to 50 years ago.

You can assume all you'd like - the fact of the matter is that mental health issues used to be things that would get you locked up in a sanitorium, or get your kids taken away, or get you fired.

Do you think that the prevalence of left-handed individuals magically increased once being left-handed was no longer seen as a sign of the devil and something to be hidden? Or do you think it was underreported?

 

[HabzSauce]

You can assume all you'd like - the fact of the matter is that mental health issues used to be things that would get you locked up in a sanitorium, or get your kids taken away, or get you fired.

Do you think that the prevalence of left-handed individuals magically increased once being left-handed was no longer seen as a sign of the devil and something to be hidden? Or do you think it was underreported?

You're ignoring everything I said though.

As our environment changes around us, so do we. In 50 years from now maybe we're in a far better place mentally with the advancements of medicine, information, tech, nutrition, fitness, etc....

On the other hand, maybe it gets even worse! Do you understand my point?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

You're ignoring everything I said though.

As our environment changes around us, so do we. In 50 years from now maybe we're in a far better place mentally with the advancements of medicine, information, tech, nutrition, fitness, etc....

On the other hand, maybe it gets even worse! Do you understand my point?

I'm not ignoring everything you've said. You're ascribing causes to an increase in something (and you're doing it haphazardly) and I'm saying that there isn't necessarily an increase.

I study health data for a living. I'm not ignoring you, but you're putting the cart before the horse.

If you don't understand the point about left-handers, then there's no value in having a conversation about this.

 

[HabzSauce]

I'm not ignoring everything you've said. You're ascribing causes to an increase in something (and you're doing it haphazardly) and I'm saying that there isn't necessarily an increase.

I study health data for a living. I'm not ignoring you, but you're putting the cart before the horse.

If you don't understand the point about left-handers, then there's no value in having a conversation about this.

Gotchya my bad.

I don't 100% understand your point about the left handers so if you don't feel like replying feel free haha. But it sounds like there was some sort of stigma against rightys? And only after that stigma was relieved we saw a bunch of kids changing to right? Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[rumrokh]

Gotchya my bad.

I don't 100% understand your point about the left handers so if you don't feel like replying feel free haha. But it sounds like there was some sort of stigma against rightys? And only after that stigma was relieved we saw a bunch of kids changing to right? Correct me if I'm wrong

There was a huge stigma against left-handedness. As recently as the '60's, when my mother and her lefty siblings had their hands tied behind their backs, received corporal punishment in school for trying to use their left hands, and were verbally abused by other kids for it.

And that's a very commonly-known, run of the mill stigma that wouldn't get your life destroyed. People were not tougher before, they just had no other options, so they hid things and found ways to cope - many of which were not healthy. Doing more damage to yourself isn't about toughness or virtue; and with extreme regularity, people you encounter who believe that simply don't like being reminded of the inequalities of reality. It threatens their status quo.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Gotchya my bad.

I don't 100% understand your point about the left handers so if you don't feel like replying feel free haha. But it sounds like there was some sort of stigma against rightys? And only after that stigma was relieved we saw a bunch of kids changing to right? Correct me if I'm wrong

I appreciate that - thank you. Regarding the prevalence of left-handers, being left handed used to be seen (throughout much of modern history) as something "wrong". As a result, many kids who were naturally left-handed had to pretend to be right-handed, leading to the graph above (the "true" percentage of left-handers is about 12% and likely always has been, but people were incentivized to hide being left-handed).

A good summary: How Lefties First Gained Acceptance

Even as late as the 1960s, many natural left-handers were forced to be right-handed. Similarly, people used to be incentivized to hide mental health concerns. I can't say that the baseline prevalence of mental health issues was lower back then, but it sure as heck was underreported back then. At minimum, admitting to a behavioral health issue back then would lead to calls that "you're weak" and "can't you just tell your brain to be stronger" and "it's all in your head" and "it's not a real condition". (This still happens today, as seen in this very thread). Often, admitting to a behavioral health issue would cause you to lose your job, or your kids, or you'd be institutionalized. There was a strong incentive to not admit to behavioral issues.

For what it's worth, I do think that being exposed to more information and data on a near-constant basis has a negative impact on our mental health. Quite a few papers have shown a correlation between social media use and mental health diagnosis prevalence, although it's hard to do such studies rigorously (with a randomized control trial, for instance).

 

[HabzSauce]

There was a huge stigma against left-handedness. As recently as the '60's, when my mother and her lefty siblings had their hands tied behind their backs, received corporal punishment in school for trying to use their left hands, and were verbally abused by other kids for it.

And that's a very commonly-known, run of the mill stigma that wouldn't get your life destroyed. People were not tougher before, they just had no other options, so they hid things and found ways to cope - many of which were not healthy. Doing more damage to yourself isn't about toughness or virtue; and with extreme regularity, people you encounter who believe that simply don't like being reminded of the inequalities of reality. It threatens their status quo.

Thanks for explaining! The more ya know lol, crazy.

That's what I originally assumed, and I'm sure there were people dealing with the same mental issues of today back then too.

But how many?? That's my whole point. We have to consider how much our environment has changed since back then.

Mentally and physically, humans are constantly changing for better or worse due to our environment. How many people were working desk jobs in the 50s compared to 2023? For 9 hours a day? That's going to result negatively for our physical evolution compared to more physical labour in the past. Thats just a simple example of what I mean.

I'm not saying these issues didn't exist 50 years ago. And I'm not ignoring the real stigma that existed too. But even if you toss the stigma aside and people felt more comfortable to admit mental illness, I'm arguing our mental health is worse today due to the rapid environmental changes over that entire time span. Environment has a massive effect on our mental and physical health

This is just my opinion of course. This is what my eyeballs and common sense tell me

 

[HabzSauce]

I appreciate that - thank you. Regarding the prevalence of left-handers, being left handed used to be seen (throughout much of modern history) as something "wrong". As a result, many kids who were naturally left-handed had to pretend to be right-handed, leading to the graph above (the "true" percentage of left-handers is about 12% and likely always has been, but people were incentivized to hide being left-handed).

A good summary: How Lefties First Gained Acceptance

Even as late as the 1960s, many natural left-handers were forced to be right-handed. Similarly, people used to be incentivized to hide mental health concerns. I can't say that the baseline prevalence of mental health issues was lower back then, but it sure as heck was underreported back then. At minimum, admitted to a behavioral health issue back then would lead to calls that "you're weak" and "can't you just tell your brain to be stronger" and "it's all in your head" and "it's not a real condition". (This still happens today, as seen in this very thread). Often, admitting to a behavioral health issue would cause you to lose your job, or your kids, or you'd be institutionalized. There was a strong incentive to not admit to behavioral issues.

For what it's worth, I do think that being exposed to more information and data on a near-constant basis has a negative impact on our mental health. Quite a few papers have shown a correlation between social media use and mental health diagnosis prevalence, although it's hard to do such studies rigorously (with a randomized control trial, for instance).

Appreciate it brother. And maybe I'm underestimating the stigma that existed around this. I never knew about the left hand thing hahaha that's honestly wild.

I replied to somebody else but I'm still arguing for environmental changes being a huge reason why I think we are at least DIFFERENT mentally, compared to what we were like in 1950 for ex. For better or worse is up for debate - but we are different, no?

Like I truly think our environment is the biggest factor when it comes to our mental/physical evolution - would you agree? Or maybe not the biggest but it's up there no?

You probably know better than I do on this topic, but have you ever seen those studies on testosterone in men of today compared to the 60s? And how much more testosterone men had back then compared to men today? Maybe you can debunk that - I've never looked into those studies too much....but it paints an interesting picture.

 

[CDJ]

OCD sucks, I hope he’s becoming better equipped to deal with it. Took me awhile.

Ironically it’s probably helped him become good at hockey. It will eventually consume you if you let it though, I’m glad he got help. Brains are weird.

 

[HabzSauce]

OCD sucks, I hope he’s becoming better equipped to deal with it. Took me awhile.

Ironically it’s probably helped him become good at hockey. It will eventually consume you if you let it though, I’m glad he got help. Brains are weird.

It truly does sound like a blessing and a curse eh....

 

[CDJ]

It truly does sound like a blessing and a curse eh....

Definitely one of those things at first, at a certain point it goes full curse though. Will make it hard to function, it goes hand-in-hand with pretty intense anxiety. And that’s when you get medication and/or learn some tactics to manage it.

 

[HabzSauce]

Definitely one of those things at first, at a certain point it goes full curse though. Will make it hard to function, it goes hand-in-hand with pretty intense anxiety. And that’s when you get medication and/or learn some tactics to manage it.

Yeah bro the blessing is strictly for hockey reasons hahaha

The rest of life sucks ASS. Prayers to anyone having to deal with this on a daily basis. Not fun except for when you hit the ice

 

[rumrokh]

Thanks for explaining! The more ya know lol, crazy.

That's what I originally assumed, and I'm sure there were people dealing with the same mental issues of today back then too.

But how many?? That's my whole point. We have to consider how much our environment has changed since back then.

Mentally and physically, humans are constantly changing for better or worse due to our environment. How many people were working desk jobs in the 50s compared to 2023? For 9 hours a day? That's going to result negatively for our physical evolution compared to more physical labour in the past. Thats just a simple example of what I mean.

I'm not saying these issues didn't exist 50 years ago. And I'm not ignoring the real stigma that existed too. But even if you toss the stigma aside and people felt more comfortable to admit mental illness, I'm arguing our mental health is worse today due to the rapid environmental changes over that entire time span. Environment has a massive effect on our mental and physical health

This is just my opinion of course. This is what my eyeballs and common sense tell me

There are absolutely differences from culture to culture, environment to environment, including era. I have absolutely noticed changes in how people across several generations behave just in my lifetime. I just also have very little confidence in my ability to make larger judgments about frequency, cause, effect, and so forth - especially outside of my bubbles. And I'm extremely wary of people who think they can do so without really expert study. And we're constantly realizing how many biases are implicit in previous expert study.

That's not to say we can't know anything or some crap like that. But "what my eyeballs and common sense tell me," for me, is more about the practicalities of daily life as opposed to something on the scale of human knowledge and progress.

 

[HabzSauce]

There are absolutely differences from culture to culture, environment to environment, including era. I have absolutely noticed changes in how people across several generations behave just in my lifetime. I just also have very little confidence in my ability to make larger judgments about frequency, cause, effect, and so forth - especially outside of my bubbles. And I'm extremely wary of people who think they can do so without really expert study. And we're constantly realizing how many biases are implicit in previous expert study.

That's not to say we can't know anything or some crap like that. But "what my eyeballs and common sense tell me," for me, is more about the practicalities of daily life as opposed to something on the scale of human knowledge and progress.

Yessir you're right - that's why I said it that way. I'm saying all of this just from my own personal experience and ideas. Not trying to claim anything i say is correct - just giving my observation

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Are you guys on any meds? They're not magic, but they can help. For me, my OCD symptoms improved a lot with SSRIs... Haven't done much for my brother, though, so it's probably mixed in terms of results overall.

I had to knock three times whenever my mind made a mental bet or I'd feel this strange kind of pressure in my chest building towards anxiety. I also suffered from compulsive thoughts and prayers despite not being religious, so if I messed them up, I had to start all over again or I'd imagine those near and dear to me would die in car crashes or something. I also had to walk the same paths home and back or I'd imagine I'd be transported to another timeline and no one would know, but my original family would wonder where I'd disappeared without answers. I would worry that I, over time, would notice something was wrong as well.

The whole time, I knew my thoughts were completely irrational, but the thought "what if?" gnawed away at my resolve and made me give in to my compulsions in spite of all logic. That is what some people don't get... If there is even the slightest chance to avoid complete catastrophe by performing simple actions, would you not do them?

Regardless, my symptoms are better now. All of them. It took a lot of hard work. The meds made my depression and general anxiety symptoms milder. I still felt the pressure, but I could train myself not to give in because it wasn't as intense.

I just stopped my meds a week ago. I’ve been on and off them for years (Zoloft) but unfortunately I don’t notice a significant difference besides the side effects.

Basically have been riding the “what if” wave with decent results. I lean into the uncertainty. Will go for a week almost symptom free. (Still get the thoughts I don’t like, but don’t care) and then will have a week where I feel tortured and trapped so this strategy can really be a roller coaster.

You're getting crapped on but you're right about the toughness we used to have compared to now.

Humans were a tougher breed. Since then it's felt like we got weaker due to environment/foods/tech&dopamine stimulus we get from social media and phones/etc....list goes on and on. Just my opinion.

OCD is no joke and I don't agree that Knight quit on his team. All I'm saying is 40-50 years ago, I don't think we had as many men dealing with stuff like depression/OCD/etc as we do today.

I will say that the human condition needs a problem to solve. I feel like if I was worried about putting food on the table or being killed I wouldn’t have OCD. My mind needs there to be a problem. Less purpose now a days also contributes.

Doesn’t mean anybodys quitting on his team or that it’s not a real problem or that the poster is in anyway not saying this out of bad faith

 

[a mangy Meowth]

In a matter of a few years we went from guys playing on broken legs to others quitting on their team for this...

Go wash your hands

 

[StrangeVision]

In a matter of a few years we went from guys playing on broken legs to others quitting on their team for this...

Yeah it was way better back in the day when dudes would just become alcoholics to cope instead of addressing their mental health issues. What we really need is some kind of movement to bring us back to the good old days, something like "Make Alcoholism Great Again." Why bother trying to get better when you can just hide the problem with booze.

 

[SomeDude]

I don't think we had as many men dealing with stuff like depression/OCD/etc as we do today.

You also didn’t have many people dying from cancer back when we didn’t understand it.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

In a matter of a few years we went from guys playing on broken legs to others quitting on their team for this...

Wow, you're out to lunch on this. Mental Health is not something to f*** with. OCD is not something to f*** with.