Proposal: Something has to Change - Net Salary Advantages to select NHL teams, and Disadvantages to others

Craig Ludwig

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Jun 16, 2005
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Preface - I am a Montreal Canadiens and although this topic affects the Habs, it also affects other Canadian teams and also some in the U.S.

It has always bothered me that Bettman has not addressed this subject, as it severely affects Canadian teams and likely to a lesser extent teams in California (Weather makes a difference).

Every time a UFA hits the market for a large contract, there is an immense difference in the Net/Take Home pay that goes into their pocket. As an example, and there are a variety of taxes that come into play (Income/State/City), a player signing in Nashville/Vegas/Florida/Dallas can likely pay up to 15% less taxes than a player signing in Toronto/Montreal/Winnipeg, and even Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose. So if I am a player worth 8 x $8 Million for a total contract of $64 Million, that is a total of $9.6 Million more in my pocket if I sign with Nashville over the course of the contract. ALMOST $10 Million DOLLARS! Who in their right mind would give that up to play for their hometown (except maybe John Tavares).

What this creates is an immense disadvantage to the higher taxed teams, and they have to severely overpay for good free agents. They ALSO have to overpay RFAs and gamble that they will be worth the contract (see Cole Caufield, PK Subban, etc.) in later years. In essence, it gives the lower taxed teams the pick of the litter to sign the UFAs, because those UFAs have a 15% advantage over other teams. By overpaying UFAs and RFAs, Canadien teams essentially get a roster that is 15-20% depleted.

It ABSOLUTELY makes sense for each NHL team, based on their Income/State/City tax, to have their own individual Salary Caps. If the Dallas/Nashville/Florida/Vegas Cap is $83 Million, then Toronto/Winnipeg/Toronto should have a cap of $95 Million. Or, make the Salary Cap is based on NET Salary.

With such a tight and minuscule Salary Cap in the NHL, every dollar counts and it boggles my mind that Bettman and company don't see this, or maybe they do because they want to grow the sport in the U.S. Personally, I think this is directly related to the Canadian teams not winning, as players want the warm U.S weather, but even more importantly pocketing an extra $5-$10 Million throughout their career. Thoughts?
 
Well, bud... the problem with that is the owners would never go for it, because that is money out of their pocket. Also, it'll lead to all of those teams overpaying the same amount because they have the bandwidth to do so and every decent agent will exploit that fact and as a result, the opposite will happen and the teams given this extra cash will find themselves with better teams. Leave it to the government to create inequality, you don't take that on yourself, ever, that's bad business. In this case, South Park had it right.
 
Lmao this again? Please point to all the advantages these lower tax rates have given these teams. I mean, as a Florida fan, it should be pretty easy to point to all these players who’ve foregone other franchises in our history to enjoy this mega advantage we have…but, I’m kinda having a hard time.
 
Preface - I am a Montreal Canadiens and although this topic affects the Habs, it also affects other Canadian teams and also some in the U.S.

It has always bothered me that Bettman has not addressed this subject, as it severely affects Canadian teams and likely to a lesser extent teams in California (Weather makes a difference).

Every time a UFA hits the market for a large contract, there is an immense difference in the Net/Take Home pay that goes into their pocket. As an example, and there are a variety of taxes that come into play (Income/State/City), a player signing in Nashville/Vegas/Florida/Dallas can likely pay up to 15% less taxes than a player signing in Toronto/Montreal/Winnipeg, and even Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose. So if I am a player worth 8 x $8 Million for a total contract of $64 Million, that is a total of $9.6 Million more in my pocket if I sign with Nashville over the course of the contract. ALMOST $10 Million DOLLARS! Who in their right mind would give that up to play for their hometown (except maybe John Tavares).

What this creates is an immense disadvantage to the higher taxed teams, and they have to severely overpay for good free agents. They ALSO have to overpay RFAs and gamble that they will be worth the contract (see Cole Caufield, PK Subban, etc.) in later years. In essence, it gives the lower taxed teams the pick of the litter to sign the UFAs, because those UFAs have a 15% advantage over other teams. By overpaying UFAs and RFAs, Canadien teams essentially get a roster that is 15-20% depleted.

It ABSOLUTELY makes sense for each NHL team, based on their Income/State/City tax, to have their own individual Salary Caps. If the Dallas/Nashville/Florida/Vegas Cap is $83 Million, then Toronto/Winnipeg/Toronto should have a cap of $95 Million. Or, make the Salary Cap is based on NET Salary.

With such a tight and minuscule Salary Cap in the NHL, every dollar counts and it boggles my mind that Bettman and company don't see this, or maybe they do because they want to grow the sport in the U.S. Personally, I think this is directly related to the Canadian teams not winning, as players want the warm U.S weather, but even more importantly pocketing an extra $5-$10 Million throughout their career. Thoughts?
If I'm not mistaken, taxes are based on where the games are played. So the tax burden is different for every teams based on where their games are actually played.

Also NHL players, if they are smart all have accountants who know how to work the systems in each country to minimize their tax burdens.





 
Are we going to correct for the different levels of endorsement potential? Cost of living? Travel distances for Western teams vs Eastern teams with the quality of life differences that entails? Relative appeal of big city vs small city? Relative appeal of storied franchise vs the rest of the league?

The answer is no.
 
Also NHL players, if they are smart all have accountants who know how to work the systems in each country to minimize their tax burdens.
Um no....that would be in the U.S, where there are many loopholes for the wealthy to not pay taxes. Unfortunately not in Canada. Look at that Brian Burke video, like him or not he has the experience of a GM and is a lawyer. Allan Walsh is an absolute clown, I think we all know that.
 
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Should there be a weather tax also?
Maybe for every foot of snow that falls should be a extra million in cap space.
Should probably factor in temperature as well. Find the average temperature of each city and adjust the cap by a million for each degree above or below average (factoring in windchill, of course). We also need to make adjustments for the more desirable costal cities. Another million for every 500 miles inland a city is located. And don’t even get me started on the factor that influences free agent signings most of all… humidity.
 
Are we going to correct for the different levels of endorsement potential? Cost of living? Travel distances for Western teams vs Eastern teams with the quality of life differences that entails? Relative appeal of big city vs small city? Relative appeal of storied franchise vs the rest of the league?

The answer is no.
Absolutely not, the post is clearly around salaries, seems pretty obvious. Is $10 Million not a a lot to you?
 
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Preface - I am a Montreal Canadiens and although this topic affects the Habs, it also affects other Canadian teams and also some in the U.S.

It has always bothered me that Bettman has not addressed this subject, as it severely affects Canadian teams and likely to a lesser extent teams in California (Weather makes a difference).

Every time a UFA hits the market for a large contract, there is an immense difference in the Net/Take Home pay that goes into their pocket. As an example, and there are a variety of taxes that come into play (Income/State/City), a player signing in Nashville/Vegas/Florida/Dallas can likely pay up to 15% less taxes than a player signing in Toronto/Montreal/Winnipeg, and even Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose. So if I am a player worth 8 x $8 Million for a total contract of $64 Million, that is a total of $9.6 Million more in my pocket if I sign with Nashville over the course of the contract. ALMOST $10 Million DOLLARS! Who in their right mind would give that up to play for their hometown (except maybe John Tavares).

What this creates is an immense disadvantage to the higher taxed teams, and they have to severely overpay for good free agents. They ALSO have to overpay RFAs and gamble that they will be worth the contract (see Cole Caufield, PK Subban, etc.) in later years. In essence, it gives the lower taxed teams the pick of the litter to sign the UFAs, because those UFAs have a 15% advantage over other teams. By overpaying UFAs and RFAs, Canadien teams essentially get a roster that is 15-20% depleted.

It ABSOLUTELY makes sense for each NHL team, based on their Income/State/City tax, to have their own individual Salary Caps. If the Dallas/Nashville/Florida/Vegas Cap is $83 Million, then Toronto/Winnipeg/Toronto should have a cap of $95 Million. Or, make the Salary Cap is based on NET Salary.

With such a tight and minuscule Salary Cap in the NHL, every dollar counts and it boggles my mind that Bettman and company don't see this, or maybe they do because they want to grow the sport in the U.S. Personally, I think this is directly related to the Canadian teams not winning, as players want the warm U.S weather, but even more importantly pocketing an extra $5-$10 Million throughout their career. Thoughts?
I'm not sure if this is feasible or not but what if they just create a formula that negates state tax from the AAV/cap hit and make cap hits equivalent universally. Even if the real dollars are different, not like canadian teams care about the real dollars as much given their support, but agree on this for the fair sake of Cap management.

Like if stamkos signed the 9.5M contract in tampa, but in Toronto, Maybe he gets paid 11, but the formula negates the state tax and other additions that the state of florida don't require making the cap hit 9.5 etc..
 
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Why not bring in a luxury tax, so the larger markets can pay more for players, like Baseball does. Do something, it's asinine to have such a puny Salary Cap that rewards smaller market teams.
Because we don't need the Oakland A's in the NHL.

The parody of the NHL is what makes it so much better than alot of other major sports right now. 75% of fanbases going into every year knowing they have no chance doesn't sound like a very good idea or a way to continue growing the game.
 
Um no....that would be in the U.S, where there are many loopholes for the wealthy to not pay taxes. Unfortunately not in Canada. Look at that Brian Burke video, like him or not he has the experience of a GM and is a lawyer. Allan Walsh is an absolute clown, I think we all know that.
Allan Walsh is also a player agent whos goal is to maximize his clients earnings, it's his job. Burke is a GM, he probably couldn't care less how much his players pay in taxes. Burke is every bit as much of a clown as Walsh.

I'm sorry what Walsh said doesn't support your opinion, unfortunately he gave a specific example of how players can and apparently DO save money on taxes.
 
It ABSOLUTELY makes sense for each NHL team, based on their Income/State/City tax, to have their own individual Salary Caps. If the Dallas/Nashville/Florida/Vegas Cap is $83 Million, then Toronto/Winnipeg/Toronto should have a cap of $95 Million. Or, make the Salary Cap is based on NET Salary.

This comes up all the time - and people consistently ignore the fact that you can't just "tax affect" the cap based on the rate for the local municipality. Players are taxed where they play the games - so when the Panthers are playing in NYC they pay New York State and city taxes. The low tax states do have an advantage in that a higher % of their games are played in low tax locations - but the impact is significantly less than the media make it out to be. Just to add more complexity - something like 90% of Austin Matthews salary is paid out in bonuses, which are taxed at 0% because he lives in Arizona when those bonuses are earned (aka - paid). Overall - tax in incredibly complex and can't be boiled down to a simple % that a team should get.

Some posters seem to forget that the salary cap's primary purpose was not to ensure absolute competitive equality between the markets, but rather to provide economic viability to the league in the aggregate. If the goal was competitive equality - teams would have to spend to the mid-point to the cap and there wouldn't be a +/- ~20% for the cap max and cap floor. Likewise - a lot of the other potential benefits would have to be factored in as well (% of salary paid up front as a bonus, $'s spent on coaches, etc.).
 
A lot of players don't want to play in Canada because they're expected to perform and they don't want to be bothered when they go out with their family.
Agreed to some extent, but I think the MAJOR reason is because they're leaving $10 Million on the table, which is the point of this post.
 

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