Proposal: Something has to Change - Net Salary Advantages to select NHL teams, and Disadvantages to others

[Chan790]

Want change? Vote for political parties and candidates that promote lower taxes.

Easy.

I'm taking the opposite approach and supporting candidates in the US that want to raise taxes, enact universal healthcare, and rein-in the cost of college.

Let's level the playing field the right way...so Canadians can find another reason to complain about hockey players not wanting to live, work, and play in Canada.

 

[HTFN]

Nah.

This way’s funnier.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just looking at it from a financial point of view, things you can adjust the salary cap for to make it a more "level" playing field:

-National tax rates
-State tax rates
-Jock tax rates
-Cost of living
-Endorsement opportunities
-Travel of teams (what division you play in vs their tax rates)
-Residence of players
-Marital status of players
-Allowable deductions (things like amount of children)
-Signing bonuses vs salary

This is just a few examples that relate purely to money.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

In the US your state income tax is based upon where your company is located in most instances. States have a non-resident clause in their tax laws. These prevent people for example from living in Vancouver WA, while working in Portland OR from getting away with paying no state income taxes. I believe Canada has a non-resident tax clause as well to prevent this.

My understanding is there is a fundamental difference of the commute issue where the salary is earned thoughout the year vs. a signing bonus which is not. I couldn't find that article, but I do remember them mentioning the favorable tax treatment of the signing bonus when the contract originated. Will see if I can find.

 

[Freaky Styley]

If I'm not mistaken, taxes are based on where the games are played. So the tax burden is different for every teams based on where their games are actually played.

Also NHL players, if they are smart all have accountants who know how to work the systems in each country to minimize their tax burdens.

this should be /thread.

A huge difference too that the OP is disregarding is the currency exchange. USD goes way further in Canada, so that should make up for any difference when it comes to life expenses. Of course, this advantages Canadian born players a little more if they come home in the offseason, but if anything that should be a positive to Canadian teams since many of the best players in the league are Canadians and usually teams with the most Canadians wins the Cup.

If you want to know the real reason players don't want to play in Canada (besides weather), look in the mirror. The media pressure is insane and you're given celebrity status. In at least 80% of US markets even star players can live like normal citizens. In Canada, if you're a 4th liner you need to be on high alert in public. I can't blame guys for avoiding that and the media attention. People get death threats ffs. Canada its own fanatical attitude to blame. The shadow side of the passion.

The tax excuse is also just a lame one to cope with bad management. Stop blaming outside forces and take some accountability. Losers attitude. Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

My understanding is there is a fundamental difference of the commute issue where the salary is earned thoughout the year vs. a signing bonus which is not. I couldn't find that article, but I do remember them mentioning the favorable tax treatment of the signing bonus when the contract originated. Will see if I can find.

Yeah that's even the case with normal people, your signing bonus is taxed differently than your salary. In the United States, I believe bonuses just have a flat 22% tax rate, which is way less than their tax rate on their salaries.

 

[BrokenFace]

If you correct for state taxes then correct for everything, including the big sponsorships that players can get in Canadian markets because hockey is so popular there. You also have to account for the advantage Canadian teams get when Canadian players want to play for their hometown team. That will be more common once the salary cap is adjusted for taxes.

It's funny to me that, whenever this comes up, adjusting the cap for taxes is considered but adjusting for other factors never is. Every market has advantages and disadvantages. Why only adjust the cap for taxes?

 

[DatDude44]

Good point, I do remember the Rangers bringing in all of the top FAs before there was a cap.

Different world now. Look at the NBA. I have no problem with things the way they are, outside of the cap needing to go up. I'm all for players benefitting etc... but i'd still like a level playing field for all 32 teams in that regard. Maybe i'm bias or worried as a St. Louis fan lol

 

[Craig Ludwig]

Incredible that we’re almost 20 years into the salary cap era and some fans still don’t understand the cap has nothing to do with fairness or creating a level playing field between teams. It’s a mechanism to ensure owners get 50% of hockey related revenue, full stop. This is why the LTIR “loophole” will never be closed (players aren’t paid during the playoffs so it doesn’t matter to the league) and why these proposals of a tax neutral cap are attempts to solve a problem that doesn’t actually exist.

this should be /thread.

A huge difference too that the OP is disregarding is the currency exchange. USD goes way further in Canada, so that should make up for any difference when it comes to life expenses. Of course, this advantages Canadian born players a little more if they come home in the offseason, but if anything that should be a positive to Canadian teams since many of the best players in the league are Canadians and usually teams with the most Canadians wins the Cup.

If you want to know the real reason players don't want to play in Canada (besides weather), look in the mirror. The media pressure is insane and you're given celebrity status. In at least 80% of US markets even star players can live like normal citizens. In Canada, if you're a 4th liner you need to be on high alert in public. I can't blame guys for avoiding that and the media attention. People get death threats ffs. Canada its own fanatical attitude to blame. The shadow side of the passion.

The tax excuse is also just a lame one to cope with bad management. Stop blaming outside forces and take some accountability. Losers attitude. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Whether they get paid in USD, CDN Dollars, EURO or the Rand, it's besides the point. It's Money, plain and simple and if you're making $10 Million USD less, that's $13.5 Million CDN, and $180,000,000 Rand less. The point of this post is about $$$Money$$$ in your pocket, not management, media, weather or anonymity, it's money. And with the size of the contracts these guys are signing, it makes a HUGE difference on where they decide to go.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Whether they get paid in USD, CDN Dollars, EURO or the Rand, it's besides the point. It's Money, plain and simple and if you're making $10 Million USD less, that's $13.5 Million CDN, and $180,000,000 Rand less. The point of this post is about $$$Money$$$ in your pocket, not management, media, weather or anonymity, it's money. And with the size of the contracts these guys are signing, it makes a HUGE difference on where they decide to go.

Does it? You mention 4 teams in the OP. I'm not seeing a disproportionate amount of talent electing to go to any of those teams as a result of this advantage--definitely not Nashville and Dallas. Vegas has mostly acquired their roster through trades (with Pietrangelo being the notable FA signing) and Florida is built fairly heavily through draft pieces and trades from draft assets.

Additionally, all 4 of these regions are among the top 15 fastest growing in the US (with Florida at the top). There are a number of factors as to why this is occurring (weather, cost of living, culture, entertainment options, etc...), not just tax rates, so it shouldn't surprise that players might follow the same trend.

 

[peconcan]

Just make it like baseball and basketball why should the big markets be punished. Let Montreal New York and Toronto build super teams if you can’t afford to pay your players and ice a competitive team with no salary cap limit then you shouldn’t have a team. Everyones attacking the OP just because he’s a Habs fan even though in the post he clearly states he’s a Habs fan, he has a point players typically sign for less in lower tax states than they do where the taxes is higher. Stamkos isn’t signing for 8.5 anywhere else

 

[AKL]

I thought Canadians were proud of their high taxes and social programs that the taxes feed? Own it bud. It's supposed to be a higher quality of life, isn't it?

 

[AndreRoy]

How many threads do we need of Canadian fans bitching about taxes? You don’t like it then vote for people who will lower them. Otherwise you got what you wanted and you’ll have no sympathy from the rest of us. Now stop your constant whining and grow the f*** up - you’re embarrassing yourselves.

 

[majormajor]

Or more simply just have the salary cap apply to post tax income not pre tax income. That's a level playing field.

 

[AndreRoy]

Or more simply just have the salary cap apply to post tax income not pre tax income. That's a level playing field.

For the billionth time, the playing field is already level as every team is able to pay its players the same amount. What the government takes from those players after the fact is none of the league’s business.

 

[Craig Ludwig]

How many threads do we need of Canadian fans bitching about taxes? You don’t like it then vote for people who will lower them. Otherwise you got what you wanted and you’ll have no sympathy from the rest of us. Now stop your constant whining and grow the f*** up - you’re embarrassing yourselves.

Thank You "Boat Parade Captain" for your intelligent and insightful response, I am am sure you majored in Economics and World Politics.

 

[AndreRoy]

I thought Canadians were proud of their high taxes and social programs that the taxes feed? Own it bud. It's supposed to be a higher quality of life, isn't it?

Amazing how people with the resources to vote with their feet want nothing to do with socialist utopias like Canada and California, isn’t it? The rest of us shouldn’t have to pay for their stupidity or their historical and economic illiteracy. They chose their fate; now they can suffer the consequences (which go well beyond the impact on their local sports teams.)

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Or more simply just have the salary cap apply to post tax income not pre tax income. That's a level playing field.

Are we basing that on what the stated tax rate is or what the players (and their very creative accounting teams) actually end up paying?

 

[majormajor]

I thought Canadians were proud of their high taxes and social programs that the taxes feed? Own it bud. It's supposed to be a higher quality of life, isn't it?

How many threads do we need of Canadian fans bitching about taxes? You don’t like it then vote for people who will lower them. Otherwise you got what you wanted and you’ll have no sympathy from the rest of us. Now stop your constant whining and grow the f*** up - you’re embarrassing yourselves.

Yeah I don't like the uneven salary cap in pro hockey so I'm going to support shifting to US type policies (massive inequality, intergenerational poverty, poor health care, shorter life spans, etc...). Yeah great solution guys.

Obviously you set up policy to support a just and prosperous society and then deal with minor stuff like hockey downstream of that.

Are we basing that on what the stated tax rate is or what the players (and their very creative accounting teams) actually end up paying?

You use estimated averages of what they end up paying. It's an average real take home pay estimate.

 

[Doublechin]

Many seem to think that the next cba will have an adjustable cap based on tax rates

 

[AKL]

Yeah I don't like the uneven salary cap in pro hockey so I'm going to support shifting to US type policies (massive inequality, intergenerational poverty, poor health care, shorter life spans, etc...). Yeah great solution guys.

Obviously you set up policy to support a just and prosperous society and then deal with minor stuff like hockey downstream of that.

Pretty sure the salary cap is the same for everyone, no? All teams are gonna have like 83.5M to spend in 2023-24? Not sure where you're getting the uneven salary cap from.

 

[majormajor]

Amazing how people with the resources to vote with their feet want nothing to do with socialist utopias like Canada and California, isn’t it? The rest of us shouldn’t have to pay for their stupidity or their historical and economic illiteracy. They chose their fate; now they can suffer the consequences (which go well beyond the impact on their local sports teams.)

People move to where there are houses they can move into. Very simple. Housing policy determines that, not tax policy.

 

[AKL]

People move to where there are houses they can move into. Very simple. Housing policy determines that, not tax policy.

Are there no houses to move into in Canada then? Only in the United States?

 

[majormajor]

Are there no houses to move into in Canada then? Only in the United States?

Canada has some of the worst most restrictive housing policies on the entire planet.

 

[AndreRoy]

Thank You "Boat Parade Captain" for your intelligent and insightful response, I am am sure you majored in Economics and World Politics.

How’d you know? But attempting to educate the brainwashed is an exercise in futility, so rather than waste my time casting pearls before swine in every such thread I’ll simply ask you lot to quit beating the proverbial dead horse. Not that you will of course - your incessant need to whine is exceeded only by your ignorance of the fact that poor decisions have consequences - but for some reason I still feel compelled to try.