GDT: Someone at PNC at Some time

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I can't believe "Necas isn't as good as you think he is" gets people so mad

It's amazing

It's like the crap I got for saying Ferland Sucked for 6 months and then finally everybody acknowledged it

There was not a stretch of 6 months last year where Ferland sucked.

But also it’s just funny bc you said “for the last 3 years” when he was drafted in 2017. Hence my joke. Not really making a statement about Necas either way.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

See I think Necas looked MUCH better last night than he did in his NHL stint last year. The puck wasn't exploding off his stick to parts unknown the second it touched the tape, and he looked like he knew where he needed to be. I just thought he wasn't as impressive as Aho or Svechnikov, who, despite not generating a chance per shift or anything, looked the part of high end talent i, n which Necas has yet to find anything but dissonance between his insane skating, soft hands, good shot- and actual results.

He was also dynamite on the PP, gaining the zone with ease. So there's that.

Turbo and Nino also had rough games, it's really neither her nor there.

 

[Roboturner913]

Goat looks like Erik Cole to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes the roster and has flashes of brilliance but takes a couple years to find his NHL self - but in the meantime gives you a physical presence, speed, size and 15ish goals. Foegele seems like that guy too, but on a smaller scale.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

What's the saying? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

'Grats.

Someone related a funny story on a different message board. During a meeting someone used that aphorism and a new hire, a Harvard grad, jumped in to exclaim the correct expression is a "stopped clock", since a broken clock could be right more than twice a day. The meeting stopped for 10 seconds as everyone else collectively rolled their eyes.

 

[Roboturner913]

I think terrible takes are saying Necas won't make it because of one preseason game like some 'round here are doing.

Yeah, nobody said that. What was said (basically) is that super dumb plays like the one he made on that PP, combined with the way Goat is playing, makes him not as much a sure thing for a roster spot as probably everybody (including myself) thought.

There's nothing nefarious about pointing that out.

 

[Canes]

Someone related a funny story on a different message board. During a meeting someone used that aphorism and a new hire, a Harvard grad, jumped in to exclaim the correct expression is a "stopped clock", since a broken clock could be right more than twice a day. The meeting stopped for 10 seconds as everyone else collectively rolled their eyes.

Sounds like something a Harvard legacy grad whose admission was bought by mommy and daddy would say.

Because any time you hear it from the common man, the word "broken" is used.

 

[Canes]

Yeah, nobody said that. What was said (basically) is that super dumb plays like the one he made on that PP, combined with the way Goat is playing, makes him not as much a sure thing for a roster spot as probably everybody (including myself) thought.

There's nothing nefarious about pointing that out.

I think we should all hear more about this horrendous play on the PP. It could be THE pivotal moment in Necas' career.

 

[Roboturner913]

I think we should all hear more about this horrendous play on the PP. It could be THE pivotal moment in Necas' career.

See, there you go exaggerating again.

Nobody said this was the pivotal moment in his career, just that it was a dumbshit thing to do.

It matters not to me whether "Gauthier" or "Necas" is the name on the sweater of the guy who fills the 3rd line RW spot this season. I really couldn't care less. I'm not rooting against either guy. Don't make this into something more than it is.

 

[vorbis]

I think it's a bit short-sighted to compare Necas' development year over year vs Svechnikov. of course Svech is showing development versus past September, he has played 90+ NHL games in the interim.

Necas is still undertaking this step up in competition. the tools are there and I personally don't think he's anywhere near having some kind of fatal flaw in his game where the skills don't add up to a successful career. to me it's clear that he's putting a lot on himself to make the team and stay with the team, and that his uneven performance is a combination of lack of experience in the NHL game and volatile focus due to putting omgpressure on himself. not unheard of for a 20 year old with big ambition.

the question to me is if the Canes feel like they can afford to let Necas ride out a potential shaky start to the year while he gets his footing. if they feel like they are a true contender, given the Metro crunch, they might feel like they need him to hit the ground running in Raleigh, even if that means a month or two in Charlotte to start the season. I also hope Martin can make the most of such a situation without getting buried by self-doubt in Charlotte without a mentoring Mike Vellucci/Tomas Jurco type figure there to still the waters.

but once he is able to settle in to a somewhat stable NHL role? the offensive production is going to be there. I don't think that's even much of a question? the tools are too good, which is in part what made him such a good prospect to begin with. he took a bit to get on track in Charlotte last season, and only improved as the season went on. though he's still an unfinished product to be sure.

Necas has legitimately made the team out of camp both of the last two seasons. the organization believes in his talent, and will do what they can to get the most out of it. letting him get steady minutes in Brno and Charlotte were in service of that goal. if he still needs a bit of time in Charlotte this year, I don't think that is an indictment of his potential at all.

 

[Roboturner913]

The upside of Necas going back to Charlotte would obviously be that he would (I'm assuming) be playing center, and probably the #1C. If that's his NHL future then he may benefit from an intermediate step there (correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he played more wing than center last year).

I have no doubt he's going to be a real damn good player for us pretty soon but right now, looking at him strictly playing a wing spot, he doesn't seem quite as plug-and-play as Goat is. But we shall see.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You can go through this thread and find terms like “bust” and “won’t make it”, and those are your folks who respond without really reading the post.

 

[NotOpie]

to me it's clear that he's putting a lot on himself to make the team and stay with the team, and that his uneven performance is a combination of lack of experience in the NHL game and volatile focus due to putting omgpressure on himself. not unheard of for a 20 year old with big ambition.

I went to an early practice and then watched the last pre-season game (and the 3rd period of the previous one) which have informed my current opinions on Necas and Gauthier. Right now, Julien Gauthier is telling you exactly why he's showing well in this training camp. He's determined that there's nothing to be left out in his effort to make the team. Terms like "balls to the wall" really do define how he's looking at this year's training camp. While he feels the pressure to make the team out of camp, it is of the "nothing to lose" type.

Martin Necas, as @vorbis has pointed out, has the same desire, but seems to lack the same level of confidence in what he actually needs to do to transition to the NHL. As Wheeler pointed out in his article, what makes him so effective is his ability to read and react to the various on ice scenarios. It appears to me that without that confidence he second-guesses his own instinctual decision-making. By putting the immense pressure on himself (and by having the team, fans, and experts reinforce that pressure), he's giving up the key skill that he has....which is more innate than learned.

As both players realize success, it will reinforce their confidence and therefore the results. My sense is that Necas will see a larger jump in those results once he begins to garner confidence and success. In the end, they are two very different players, but players that we need to succeed.

 

[2Minutes4Surging]

I was in no way implying that Necas is, or ever will be, a bust. I just saw first hand a very young man who was down on himself after playing one preseason game. He was adamant that his performance was not up to his expectations, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But hearing him say "I didn't play well" and "I hope I can play better" while also seeing his body language, I just saw a kid who was lacking confidence and needs some support. We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, I just hope that he is getting that support.

Before we met Martin we spoke with Nino and Staal. Two veterans who aren't under any pressure to have an outstanding training camp/preseason. They were loose.. fun.. and upbeat, despite having not scored or making a notifiable difference in the game. And certainly that all comes with age and experience and being established in their profession.

Necas could score one goal and his confidence could skyrocket. I hope that is exactly what happens. I just wanted to give insight on the immense pressure this young player is under and how he is effected by it. I'm sure his teammates and the organization know this and we, the fans, need to take that into account. He will break through at some point, and when he does, this will all be an after thought.

 

[geehaad]

I have no real basis for this thought, but I'm going to say it anyway: I think Necas is being told the foundation of the way he's developed his play doesn't fit Brind'Amour's system, and he needs to change.

How frustrating would it be to hear that you're the next great thing, that your time has come, but what you hear from your coach is that you're doing it wrong? How confusing would it be to constantly be second-guessing your instincts, decisions you're making at 100mph? After a lot of that, how likely would it be that you get down on yourself? Not to mention the fact that he's playing wing instead of center.

 

[MinJaBen]

I have no real basis for this thought, but I'm going to say it anyway: I think Necas is being told the foundation of the way he's developed his play doesn't fit Brind'Amour's system, and he needs to change.

How frustrating would it be to hear that you're the next great thing, that your time has come, but what you hear from your coach is that you're doing it wrong? How confusing would it be to constantly be second-guessing your instincts, decisions you're making at 100mph? After a lot of that, how likely would it be that you get down on yourself? Not to mention the fact that he's playing wing instead of center.

Do you want to elaborate on this? Putting aside your lack of basis for this, in what way is Necas's foundation a different form of hockey than Rod likes to play hockey?

 

[Roboturner913]

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy that either. What is "Brind'Amour's system"? It seems to me his preferred "system" is the Laviolette style and you could argue that approach is pretty devoid of "system" other than play fast, play hard

 

[Ole Gil]

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy that either. What is "Brind'Amour's system"? It seems to me his preferred "system" is the Laviolette style and you could argue that approach is pretty devoid of "system" other than play fast, play hard

I think there are a lot of positional aspects to his 'system.' And a lot of problems Rod talks about are people going where they are not supposed to go, or not going where they are supposed to go.

My impression, is the kids still have some of that mighty mites in them that chases the puck too much, rather than staying in the right position.

 

[tarheelhockey]

My impression, is the kids still have some of that mighty mites in them that chases the puck too much, rather than staying in the right position.

I can kind of see that in Necas’ game. He makes some plays on the puck that fall into the category of “if you’re gonna try to do that, it had better work”.

A learning curve in that respect is typical for skill players coming up a level, so this isn’t a red-alert situation for him individually. I think the hard part is what to do if someone else makes an undeniable case for the roster spot. That dilemma isn’t very far away if the current trend continues with him and Gauthier.

 

[Roboturner913]

I think there are a lot of positional aspects to his 'system.' And a lot of problems Rod talks about are people going where they are not supposed to go, or not going where they are supposed to go.

My impression, is the kids still have some of that mighty mites in them that chases the puck too much, rather than staying in the right position.

I wasn't trying to say there is no "system" but I get the feeling that whatever you want to call it, it's pretty bare bones, or more of a loose general framework.

Without having any particular special insight, I would guess if Necas is finding himself in the wrong position it's probably on the forecheck/cycle game and that can be a "feel" thing that comes with familarity with your linemates.

 

[Ole Gil]

I can kind of see that in Necas’ game. He makes some plays on the puck that fall into the category of “if you’re gonna try to do that, it had better work”.

A learning curve in that respect is typical for skill players coming up a level, so this isn’t a red-alert situation for him individually. I think the hard part is what to do if someone else makes an undeniable case for the roster spot. That dilemma isn’t very far away if the current trend continues with him and Gauthier.

Yeah, I remember Aho scored a shorty last year, and in the post game Brindy said "It's a good thing he did, because he wasn't was supposed to be there."

The one player who I think made big strides in this department is McGinn, who had a real habit of overpersuing. Chasing the puck down low abandoning his guy at the point, making a hit that put him in a bad spot, etc... I thought last year, all that stuff went away by the end of the year for Brock, making him a better player even though the goalscoring dipped.

That being said, I don't know if this is still a big problem for Necas, or if it's like Svech was last year, where he's just in the process of getting to where he needs to be at the end of the rainbow.

 

[geehaad]

There's an NHL coach who doesn't have a system? That's news to me. Laviolette most definitely had/has one. Just because the manta is "attack with speed" doesn't mean that it's the equivalent of the 70s vibrating football game...players going wherever, however, whenever. No way.

It could be as simple as Necas wanting to go east-west and Brind'Amour wanting him to go north-south...that's an easy, almost stereotypical, example between an Eastern European player and a North American coach. Not saying it's precisely that...again, I have no basis. It's a worthless feeling that I have. Feel free to ignore/mock it.

 

[Incubajerks]

There's an NHL coach who doesn't have a system? That's news to me. Laviolette most definitely had/has one. Just because the manta is "attack with speed" doesn't mean that it's the equivalent of the 70s vibrating football game...players going wherever, however, whenever. No way.

It could be as simple as Necas wanting to go east-west and Brind'Amour wanting him to go north-south...that's an easy, almost stereotypical, example between an Eastern European player and a North American coach. Not saying it's precisely that...again, I have no basis. It's a worthless feeling that I have. Feel free to ignore/mock it.

At the moment I have the same feeling more or less, Goat seemed more loose those 2 games where Necas seemed more "Foegelesque". I can't say btw how can't wait for this season to start because here the feeling is very confident...

 

[tarheelhockey]

There's an NHL coach who doesn't have a system? That's news to me. Laviolette most definitely had/has one. Just because the manta is "attack with speed" doesn't mean that it's the equivalent of the 70s vibrating football game...players going wherever, however, whenever. No way.

It could be as simple as Necas wanting to go east-west and Brind'Amour wanting him to go north-south...that's an easy, almost stereotypical, example between an Eastern European player and a North American coach. Not saying it's precisely that...again, I have no basis. It's a worthless feeling that I have. Feel free to ignore/mock it.

 

[emptyNedder]

Yeah, I remember Aho scored a shorty last year, and in the post game Brindy said "It's a good thing he did, because he wasn't was supposed to be there."

That doesn't surprise me. RBA also said after the season that he needed Aho to be better. Maybe that was in consultation with Tulsky—there may be deep analytics that indicate that Aho is making mistakes. But that might not be it. During the Canes great February Aho was the center who faced McDavid's line, Crosby's line, and the Vegas top line of Smith/Karlsson/Marchessault; Aho was on the ice for exactly one goal--the result of an errant Williams' pass that led to a 2-on-1. Hard to be much better than that.

I wonder if RBA has a bias for the style he played—super effort, near-elite skill. It might be hard for him to fully appreciate elite skill, which allows players to improvise. Players with elite IQ can often look like they are playing less than full out because they are thinking where to be in 2 seconds instead of just hustling everywhere (to paraphrase Gretzky). I don't watch a lot of basketball, but I have seen Kawhi Leonard let players get a step on him so he can get a better angle to strip the ball. Only a few athletes can do this—I think Aho is one.

As The Athletic article discussed this week, Necas might also have that level of skill/IQ when it comes to passing and setting up teammates.

In this sense, I think geehaad's original point has some validity. My guess is Necas needs to understand the flow of the game and tendencies of his line mates. RBA might just want him to play harder.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think it’s more that Rod knows Aho has even more in him and is motivating him to achieve it.