Softest Leaf Forward Group Since 2000?

[TakeTheBody]

Tkachuk. Please.

 

[Nineteen67]

Sounds like your definition of is based off of how the other team plays lol.

So you want players that are willing to put themselves in a place where they are constantly a threat to get injured, and if they don’t, they’re weak, but if they do, they’re tough.

How useful are they if they get hurt now?

Did you see the list of injuries between the two finalist?
Did you see the players headed to trainers room between shifts during the finals?
Did you watch the guys that struggled to lift the cup because they were sore?

If it matters enough to the player to lift the Cup, he’ll do what it takes. That’s they way it should be.

 

[Daddy]

You can hurt blocking shots, should that be avoided as well. Hockey is a tough sport, you may get hurt.
In my experience, you’re more likely to get hurt when you’re passive than when you’re aggressive.

Standing in front of the net is aggressive? Or is the guy chopping at your spine aggressive? Are you weak for standing in front of the net like most of our guys do?

The way people talk about this team as if we had 0 hits last season and didn’t take any risks

Did you see the list of injuries between the two finalist?
Did you see the players headed to trainers room between shifts during the finals?
Did you watch the guys that struggled to lift the cup because they were sore?

If it matters enough to the player to lift the Cup, he’ll do what it takes. That’s they way it should be.

They also played every other day almost for two months. The human body isn’t supposed to take on that level of stress and yet they do. Which, good for them, sure, but if we were in the same position who says we’re not the same?

 

[Daddy]

I love how you’re going on some rant when the post you’re responding to doesn’t even mention toughness anywhere. I mean that’s just fantastic.

They responded to my post first? That’s how forums work don’t ya know.

I mean, that’s just fantastic you haven’t figured out how forums work when you’ve been here for so long.

 

[Nineteen67]

Standing in front of the net is aggressive? Or is the guy chopping at your spine aggressive? Are you weak for standing in front of the net like most of our guys do?

The way people talk about this team as if we had 0 hits last season and didn’t take any risks


They also played every other day almost for two months. The human body isn’t supposed to take on that level of stress and yet they do. Which, good for them, sure, but if we were in the same position who says we’re not the same?

They don’t do enough in round one to get there. I gave you a prime example earlier ITT.

 

[Daddy]

They don’t do enough in round one to get there. I gave you a prime example earlier ITT.

Ah yes, the one example we have where Willie didn’t go banging into the boards and played his game. f***, you’re right. Let’s get Tkachuk, let’s also get Colton Orr back. He was great when he was in the corners.

 

[andora]

With under 4 minutes left in game 7 Willie was carrying the puck to the line and dumped it in the corner. He had speed and was the first one to the corner, however McDonaugh was right there too, rather than taking a hit and getting the puck to an open Spezza behind the net, Willie put the brakes on and weakly poked at it.

That happened, trailing by one goal, with 3 minutes and change left in game 7.

Quoted for truth and frustration

 

[andora]

Ah yes, the one example we have where Willie didn’t go banging into the boards and played his game. f***, you’re right. Let’s get Tkachuk, let’s also get Colton Orr back. He was great when he was in the corners.

Jesus its constant .. bring up goons when the other person doesnt mention a goon. Why is it a go to reaction.

And nylander, you oversimplify what he is trying to say nevermind the fact you wanted to get specific

 

[DarkKnight]

They responded to my post first? That’s how forums work don’t ya know.

I mean, that’s just fantastic you haven’t figured out how forums work when you’ve been here for so long.

Who is they? You tagged my post. Wow.

 

[Daddy]

Jesus its constant .. bring up goons when the other person doesnt mention a goon. Why is it a go to reaction.

And nylander, you oversimplify what he is trying to say nevermind the fact you wanted to get specific

Still haven’t heard who we should be trying to get and no, people want toughness, I want to genuinely know why Nylander isn’t tough.

The number of keyboard warriors who didn’t get beyond house league hockey is evident here.

 

[andora]

Still haven’t heard who we should be trying to get and no, people want toughness, I want to genuinely know why Nylander isn’t tough.

The number of keyboard warriors who didn’t get beyond house league hockey is evident here.

You asked to get specific.. you got an answer.. you ranted

 

[Daddy]

Who is they? You tagged my post. Wow.

The whole thread is about being a soft team, people keep asking for toughness. To be honest, I forgot I responded to your post, but people respond to dumb posts all the time.

You asked to get specific.. you got an answer.. you ranted

Names?

 

[andora]

Who is they? You tagged my post. Wow.

The consistent apparent emotional response by everyone on the apparent defensive about this topic.

A list of goons is thrown out when the opposite side of the discussion is not advocating for any such player

 

[Nineteen67]

Ah yes, the one example we have where Willie didn’t go banging into the boards and played his game. f***, you’re right. Let’s get Tkachuk, let’s also get Colton Orr back. He was great when he was in the corners.

Or, why not get Willie to use his God given gifts. If the highly skilled players won’t sacrifice a little bit at a crucial time in the game and series, how do you expect them to win?

 

[andora]

The whole thread is about being a soft team, people keep asking for toughness. To be honest, I forgot I responded to your post, but people respond to dumb posts all the time.


Names?

Fine
Aston reese would help he plays a bit different than we are used to as an example in terms of ufa.

Aube kubel was a baby step in the right direction

 

[Daddy]

Or, why not get Willie to use his God given gifts. If the highly skilled players won’t sacrifice a little bit at a crucial time in the game and series, how do you expect them to win?

I’ll agree with this. Getting mad that he didn’t go in and jump at McDonagh imo is a dumb argument and I was just as annoyed as the next that he didn’t, but he’s a finesse player, not someone you should be expecting to run guys.

Willie is about puck control, he gets it and he keeps it, McDonagh won the puck.

The dump and chase is also Keefe’s system and the players do it all the time. Willie played the structure and lost.

 

[Nineteen67]

Jesus its constant .. bring up goons when the other person doesnt mention a goon. Why is it a go to reaction.

And nylander, you oversimplify what he is trying to say nevermind the fact you wanted to get specific

He knows we are right.

I get on Nylander because he has so much more to offer, IMO. He has so much hockey talent but needs to add a little more intensity and grit at certain times. In that example I used it should be no holds barred.

 

[Mess]

Leafs still have Wayne Simmonds under contract and Leafs re-signed Klye Clifford for 2 years for 2023 and 24 seasons.

 

[Nineteen67]

I’ll agree with this. Getting mad that he didn’t go in and jump at McDonagh imo is a dumb argument and I was just as annoyed as the next that he didn’t, but he’s a finesse player, not someone you should be expecting to run guys.

Willie is about puck control, he gets it and he keeps it, McDonagh won the puck.

The dump and chase is also Keefe’s system and the players do it all the time. Willie played the structure and lost.

When did I say he should have run him? Willie was first to the puck, rather than putting on the brakes he should have kept going and tried to get the puck to an open Spezza.

Having said that, in the dying minutes ofgame 7, if the D does gets there first, then he should have played the body. He’s 6’ 200 lbs.

As for his finesse, if you recall earlier in the pd when Marner dove and stripped the puck at the blue line and from his knees got it to Nylander in the open slot, he shot it right into Vasi glove. Tough luck.

 

[TakeTheBody]

Love Willy, but if we can get Tkachuk for him in a deal. Do it.

 

[Dreakmur]

Sounds like your definition of is based off of how the other team plays lol.

It’s based off of the meaning of the word. Toughness is your ability to withstand adverse conditions.

So you want players that are willing to put themselves in a place where they are constantly a threat to get injured, and if they don’t, they’re weak, but if they do, they’re tough.

I was very specific in saying that I want players to sacrifice at the required times. It’s stupid to put yourself in harms way for no reason, but if you aren’t willing to do it when needed, that’s a detriment to the team winning.

Players that do it too much are dumb. Players that do it too little are soft.

How useful are they if they get hurt now?

Live by the sword so to speak.

You’re not going to beat other teams that are sacrificing their bodies if you don’t do the same.

 

[Tak7]

Read title. Forwards.

List the softer forward groups. This is a top 3-5 group at worst.

The 2009-2010 team immediately comes to mind as a buttery soft forward group.
So do the 11-12 and 12-13 team.
The 15-16 and 16-17 team.

 

[Knies iT]

The 2009-2010 team immediately comes to mind as a buttery soft forward group.
So do the 11-12 and 12-13 team.
The 15-16 and 16-17 team.

Again, forwards. None of these examples are softer aside from maybe 09-10 which had the toughest player in the league and two veteran enforcers. The argument isn’t that any of these teams were good - your original comment that this team isn’t even close to the softest is way off.

09-10: Orr, Mayers, Rosehill
11-12: M. Brown, Kadri, Rosehill, Armstrong, Ashton (Lupul, McArthur)
12-13: Orr, McLaren, M. Brown, Kadri, Komarov, (Lupul, McArthur, JVR)
15-16: Clune, Kadri, Komarov, Winnik, Hyman (Lupul, JVR)
16-17: Martin, Boyle, Kadri, Komarov, Hyman (JVR)

Omitted Deveaux in '09 and you can omit Clune in ’15/Ashton in '11-12 as they serve the same role as Simmonds/Clifford will on paper (AHL call-up, not a permanent player).

In brackets are skilled players with size that would be listed by people here if they played on this current team.

 

[Tak7]

Again, forwards. None of these examples are softer aside from maybe 09-10 which had the toughest player in the league and two veteran enforcers. The argument isn’t that any of these teams were good - your original comment that this team isn’t even close to the softest is way off.

09-10: Orr, Mayers, Rosehill
11-12: M. Brown, Kadri, Rosehill, Armstrong, Ashton (Lupul, McArthur)
12-13: Orr, McLaren, M. Brown, Kadri, Komarov, (Lupul, McArthur, JVR)
15-16: Clune, Kadri, Komarov, Winnik, Hyman (Lupul, JVR)
16-17: Martin, Boyle, Kadri, Komarov, Hyman (JVR)

Omitted Deveaux in '09 and you can omit Clune in ’15/Ashton in '11-12 as they serve the same role as Simmonds/Clifford will on paper (AHL call-up, not a permanent player).

In brackets are skilled players with size that would be listed by people here if they played on this current team.

In that case, by your same criteria:

22-23: Clifford, Simmonds, Bunting, Kampf, Engvall, Anderson.

End of debate, really. If you're going to name low/no minute guys as those that move the toughness "needle", I'll add guys of that same ilk + add guys who play more than low-minutes that play hard also.

Conclusion = this isn't anywhere near the softest team in the past 22 years. Some of the Leafs teams you are defending because they had 1 or 2 enforcers who played 4 minutes a night, used to get bullied all over the rink consistently.

 

[Dekes For Days]

09-10: Orr, Mayers, Rosehill
11-12: M. Brown, Kadri, Rosehill, Armstrong, Ashton (Lupul, McArthur)
12-13: Orr, McLaren, M. Brown, Kadri, Komarov, (Lupul, McArthur, JVR)
15-16: Clune, Kadri, Komarov, Winnik, Hyman (Lupul, JVR)
16-17: Martin, Boyle, Kadri, Komarov, Hyman (JVR)

Omitted Deveaux in '09 and you can omit Clune in ’15/Ashton in '11-12 as they serve the same role as Simmonds/Clifford will on paper (AHL call-up, not a permanent player).

In brackets are skilled players with size that would be listed by people here if they played on this current team.

If any of those players played for the current team, they would be called soft too, because none of this actually has anything to do with actual play style or a lack of similar style players.

We don't lose because we're soft. We're labeled soft because we lose, and that invites people to push their own narratives instead of looking at and acknowledging the actual reasons why.