Soccer beats Hockey in the US

[nyrmetros]

Who cares about Manchester. It's all about MLS and USA Soccer. And NHL and USA Hockey.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Who cares about Manchester.

Over one million Americans, apparently.

 

[Epsilon]

And it's this attitude that keeps soccer from selling here.

How is his quote anything but the truth? You constantly hear tons of hockey fans complain when someone calls the NHL boring or says there's not enough scoring. Then they turn around and do the exact same thing when it comes to soccer.

 

[Hasbro]

How is his quote anything but the truth? You constantly hear tons of hockey fans complain when someone calls the NHL boring or says there's not enough scoring. Then they turn around and do the exact same thing when it comes to soccer.

The attitude that if you don't accept soccer hole cloth you are some kind of ignoramus.

Hockey's the reverse problem, we're like the fans of a band "before they got big" who don't cotton to poseurs.

 

[Epsilon]

The attitude that if you don't accept soccer hole cloth you are some kind of ignoramus.

Hockey's the reverse problem, we're like the fans of a band "before they got big" who don't cotton to poseurs.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Person A: I like hockey.
Person B: Hockey is so boring, the rules are stupid and there is not enough scoring.
Person C: I like soccer.
Person A: Soccer is so boring, the rules are stupid and there is not enough scoring.

It seems that you would have no problem calling person B ignorant, but wouldn't call person A ignorant?

 

[Refuse]

The attitude that if you don't accept soccer hole cloth you are some kind of ignoramus.

Hockey's the reverse problem, we're like the fans of a band "before they got big" who don't cotton to poseurs.

The difference is that soccer as a world sport isn't in need of any rule changes or anything, whereas hockey changes rules all the time in a desperate attempt to gain more fans. Soccer doesn't need US to thrive, and certainly won't change any rules simply to attract to the 4% of earths population that wants more goals to watch it. The NHL seems hellbent on making it in the states and is willing to change the game to the point where the nets are made bigger, fighting disappears and shootouts decide games.
Of course its silly when we say things like 'soccer needs to do this and that to make it in the US as a big sport'.

 

[Refuse]

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Person A: I like hockey.
Person B: Hockey is so boring, the rules are stupid and there is not enough scoring.
Person C: I like soccer.
Person A: Soccer is so boring, the rules are stupid and there is not enough scoring.

It seems that you would have no problem calling person B ignorant, but wouldn't call person A ignorant?

soccer doesn't need more goals to survive unlike hockey (NHL). At least thats what Bettman seems to think. Soccer is already the sport with the largest following in the world. Hockey is a small, small sport worldwide.

 

[Hasbro]

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Person A: I like hockey.
Person B: Hockey is so boring, the rules are stupid and there is not enough scoring.
Person C: I like soccer.
Person A: Soccer is so boring, the rules are stupid and there is not enough scoring.

It seems that you would have no problem calling person B ignorant, but wouldn't call person A ignorant?

Because whenever someone picks up Hockey any time after their third trimester or are from the wrong part of the country they are branded as not being a real fan.

And even in the dead puck era there was more scoring than soccer.

The difference is that soccer as a world sport isn't in need of any rule changes or anything, whereas hockey changes rules all the time in a desperate attempt to gain more fans. Soccer doesn't need US to thrive, and certainly won't change any rules simply to attract to the 4% of earths population that wants more goals to watch it.

Exactly this kind of exageration. Soccer isn't the most popular game in 96% of the world. Baseball is more popular in Japan, Cricket in India, Football and rugby in Australia, ping pong in China.

The NHL seems hellbent on making it in the states and is willing to change the game to the point where the nets are made bigger, fighting disappears and shootouts decide games.
Of course its silly when we say things like 'soccer needs to do this and that to make it in the US as a big sport'.

and the big 3 sports... all have made changes in the game to make it more appealing. 3 pointers, the two point convesion, college overtime, the DH...

 

[Bear of Bad News]

soccer doesn't need more goals to survive unlike hockey (NHL). At least thats what Bettman seems to think. Soccer is already the sport with the largest following in the world. Hockey is a small, small sport worldwide.

Part 32 in an ongoing campaign to turn every thread in the Business forum into a Gary Bettman thread.

 

[TorFC-TML*]

FIFA changes rules all the time. They tinker with their game just like the NHL and the IIHF.

Im so pissed off that Toronto FC and its fans are now in the exact same situation are the Maple Leafs and their fans. Not enough seats to make up for the overwhelming support while the majority of the league struggles to sell tickets at bargain basement pricing.

 

[mmk786]

I think a lot of you are underestimating soccer.
Here are the top ratings for the first week of july.

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||sports2,00.html
Notice the strong ratings for soccer, not just the mexico game (Notice the ratings for the Argetina-Peru game?)

Also, these games were on Univision, if they were on FOX like the baseball game, i am sure it would have done a lot better.

 

[frivolousz21]

I think a lot of you are underestimating soccer.
Here are the top ratings for the first week of july.

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||sports2,00.html
Notice the strong ratings for soccer, not just the mexico game (Notice the ratings for the Argetina-Peru game?)

Also, these games were on Univision, if they were on FOX like the baseball game, i am sure it would have done a lot better.

lol

um no it wouldnt.

if it was on fox it would of gotten a terrible rating.

you do realize its in SPANISH ON UNIVISION.

those people arent going and wont be spending there money at mls games..so maybe soccer does well when the illegal immigrants get together and watch.

but those people are 10 to 20 years away from supporting the mls....watching on univision is a moot point.

 

[Gozer]

The difference is that soccer as a world sport isn't in need of any rule changes or anything, whereas hockey changes rules all the time in a desperate attempt to gain more fans. Soccer doesn't need US to thrive, and certainly won't change any rules simply to attract to the 4% of earths population that wants more goals to watch it. The NHL seems hellbent on making it in the states and is willing to change the game to the point where the nets are made bigger, fighting disappears and shootouts decide games.
Of course its silly when we say things like 'soccer needs to do this and that to make it in the US as a big sport'.

Because whenever someone picks up Hockey any time after their third trimester or are from the wrong part of the country they are branded as not being a real fan.

And even in the dead puck era there was more scoring than soccer.
Exactly this kind of exageration. Soccer isn't the most popular game in 96% of the world. Baseball is more popular in Japan, Cricket in India, Football and rugby in Australia, ping pong in China. and the big 3 sports... all have made changes in the game to make it more appealing. 3 pointers, the two point convesion, college overtime, the DH...

You really need to read what he wrote again.

 

[17*]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/soccer/06/26/bc.soc.goldcupratings.ap/index.html

The Gold Cup Final showing USA vs. Mexico rated 41% higher than the final game of the Stanley Cup Finals. The numbers are probably even understated in favor of the soccer match considering it only tabulates one of the two stations that aired the soccer game.

Well....

That's interesting, but how did the Gold Cup Final compare to the 2002 Gold medal game between the USA and Canada?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/oly...ey_ratings_ap/

NBC's live broadcast starting at 2:30 p.m. EST Sunday drew a 10.7 national rating, meaning 10.7 percent of TV homes tuned in. About 38 million people watched at least part of the game.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

The United States' 2-1 come-from-behind victory over Mexico on Sunday received a 2.5 fast national rating on Univision, the network said Tuesday. That translates to 2.83 million households, nearly double the 1.48 million homes that watched the 2005 Gold Cup final between the United States and Panama.

Conclusion: 38 million for the hockey, 2.83 million for the soccer.

To make the comparison fair and reasonable, you should be comparing the Stanley Cup final to the MLS final.

 

[17*]

Some more questions regarding this.

1. Only the Spanish ratings are revealed, not the English ratings. Is this because the English ratings were so poor that including them would weaken the author's point?

2. How many of these Spanish people watching the game are soccer fans, willing to support the game at league level, and how many of them are just watching because Mexico was playing? Or, to put it bluntly, how many of these 'Americans' were cheering for Mexico?

 

[Hank19]

ok, as racist as this might sound, its true.

there are many more mexicans in the US (most likely soccer fans) than there are canadiens (more likely to be hockey fans). i would bet that you would find the english language broadcast on FSC to be a lot lower than telemundo's.

The fact that ESPN has a Latin segment during Sportscenter supports this.

Who knows what will happen but with immigrants pouring into the US every year (legally and illegally), in 20 years Soccer could transplant MLB and the NBA.

In the end, I don't care that soccer gets better ratings. Who cares? I love hockey and it's not going anywhere. The NHL has no television imprint in the US and yet the league is still making money and has a very healthy attendance rating. Sure, there are a few struggling franchises but that could be said in MLB too.
The league has always been gate-driven, so as long as fans go to the games, the NHL will thrive. It's not going anywhere so lets all stop having a complex for where we stand in the US. We'll never, ever be as popular as the NFL or MLB. Big deal. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Some more questions regarding this.

1. Only the Spanish ratings are revealed, not the English ratings. Is this because the English ratings were so poor that including them would weaken the author's point?

2. How many of these Spanish people watching the game are soccer fans, willing to support the game at league level, and how many of them are just watching because Mexico was playing? Or, to put it bluntly, how many of these 'Americans' were cheering for Mexico?

Awesome points! Facts are useless if you spin them the way you want them to look.

 

[Rocket]

That's interesting, but how did the Gold Cup Final compare to the 2002 Gold medal game between the USA and Canada?

I hope you're not being serious with a ratings comparison between the Olympics and a stand-alone, regional tournament that didn't have 1/10th the hype/marketing.

NBC's live broadcast starting at 2:30 p.m. EST Sunday drew a 10.7 national rating, meaning 10.7 percent of TV homes tuned in. About 38 million people watched at least part of the game.

The US-China final game in 1999 women's world cup had more than 40 million viewers. I guess women's soccer is more popular than hockey.

To make the comparison fair and reasonable, you should be comparing the Stanley Cup final to the MLS final.

Comparing the ratings for MLS Cup and the Stanley Cup final would be a fair way judge the current popularity of the two leagues, but not the two sports in this country. That said, I really don't care which sport is more popular as long as I'm able to follow my favorite sport on TV.

 

[Rocket]

Some more questions regarding this.

1. Only the Spanish ratings are revealed, not the English ratings. Is this because the English ratings were so poor that including them would weaken the author's point?

Fox Soccer Channel is available in only 30 million homes, and is not yet a part of the Nielsen ratings system.

2. How many of these Spanish people watching the game are soccer fans, willing to support the game at league level

Until we have a league loaded with superstars (not practical at this time) we'll probably never know. One fact to consider: every year the top Mexican, European, and South American clubs come here for exhibition games they draw huge crowds that fill up NFL stadiums, even at a ridiculously high ticket price. Teams like Manchester United, Real Madrid, Chivas would probably average 40,000+ fans per game for the whole season. They would also have a decent following on TV but still would not receive enough money from the TV networks (because of the lack of commercial breaks in soccer games) to pay for the high salary.

 

[17*]

I hope you're not being serious with a ratings comparison between the Olympics and a stand-alone, regional tournament that didn't have 1/10th the hype/marketing.

It didn't need the hype and marketing because Mexico was playing. And that is my point. These people that watched this game aren't soccer fans, they're Mexico fans, big difference. Therefore, the game can't be used to properly guage soccer's popularity.

The US-China final game in 1999 women's world cup had more than 40 million viewers. I guess women's soccer is more popular than hockey.

Are you sure? 40 million seems kind of high. Have you got a source for that? As I understand it, the number was 40 million worldwide.

Comparing the ratings for MLS Cup and the Stanley Cup final would be a fair way judge the current popularity of the two leagues.

And, the two sports!

 

[frivolousz21]

actually comparing the ratings for the finals of each sport arent right.

1 game compared to many...and its not fair because if its la vs houston in soccer..the ratings will account or both local american cities.

last year about 6 to 7 million people in NORTH AMERICA watched the stanley cup finals....we can use north american since toronto has a MLS team....however...lets just look at the fact that 1.7 billion dollars in revenue came from the united states part of the nhl and 2.4 billion overall.

given the new tv deals and rise in attendance so far in many american markets that 2.4 billion number will be eclipes again...with new jerseys for so many teams....Id think 2.7 billion isnt out of the question.

it seems the nhl is rising its prices but also getting its casual fan back.

when the MLS can have 30 teams and a 50 million dollar salaray cap

I will say people love it and are willing to spend money on it.

 

[17*]

Until we have a league loaded with superstars (not practical at this time) we'll probably never know. One fact to consider: every year the top Mexican, European, and South American clubs come here for exhibition games they draw huge crowds that fill up NFL stadiums, even at a ridiculously high ticket price. Teams like Manchester United, Real Madrid, Chivas would probably average 40,000+ fans per game for the whole season. They would also have a decent following on TV but still would not receive enough money from the TV networks (because of the lack of commercial breaks in soccer games) to pay for the high salary.

I agree that top rated soccer would have good ratings, for a while anyway. Perhaps comparing top rated soccer to top rated hockey would be fair, but how do you measure this. As frivolousz21 points out, the amount of money people are willing to spend on tickets might be a better guage than tv ratings.

 

[Fugu]

last year about 6 to 7 million people in NORTH AMERICA watched the stanley cup finals....we can use north american since toronto has a MLS team....however...lets just look at the fact that 1.7 billion dollars in revenue came from the united states part of the nhl and 2.4 billion overall.

The unaudited NHL revenue for this year is ~$2.31-2.33 billion. Furthermore, there have been a couple of sources (Dreger, National Post) that have reported Canada accounts for approximately 'one-third' of this year's NHL revenues. This was at the midpoint of the season, not a final number. In either case, it's still an approximation, not a fact, and furthermore until either the NHL or NHLPA release (or leak) the actual figure, it will only be an approximation, and not a fact.

 

[17*]

There are also fans spending money on AHL, CHL, College and other games from other leagues.

Does soccer have these layers of support in the U.S?

 

[Rocket]

... when the MLS can have 30 teams and a 50 million dollar salaray cap ...

1. Here's a scary thought, what do you think the NHL would draw at the gate and on TV if the league was in only 13 markets and had a $3 mil. salary cap?

2. No one is arguing that MLS is more popular than the NHL.

 

[17*]

1. Here's a scary thought, what do you think the NHL would draw at the gate and on TV if the league was in only 13 markets and had a $3 mil. salary cap?

2. No one is arguing that MLS is more popular than the NHL.

If the NHL was in only 13 markets, they would be 13 outstanding teams.

Who knows, the quality might be so excellent that the NHL would get a huge tv deal.

Yes, that is scary.