Funny how things change. A while ago there was a thread asking if a single play could keep someone out of the Hall. I brought up Gonchar getting turnstiled by Travis Moen, with the caveat that I didn't think he was overly close anyway. And now he's getting brought up in these threads semi-regularly.
At least we can say that McSorley's One Play was a lot more embarrassing than Gonchar's.
And in that game the Pens were down 3-0 and had the power play when Moen scored that goal. Nothing went right for the Pens that game. Crosby got a penalty on the first shift of the game and the Habs scored right away. It was 4-0 before a brief comeback to make it 4-2 but then a 5-2 final. That Moen goal against Gonchar was the icing on the cake. It was the nail in the coffin. The Pens win that Game 7 and they beat Philly and then are in the Cup final vs. Chicago which would have been very interesting. But that goal was just horrible. Fleury had one of his bad games and you could say that this game is what unleashed those few years of playoff boners for the Pens. But no moment captures is more than what Gonchar did, or didn't do. He just basically waved him by. I agree, I don't know if there is a single play that keeps someone out of the HHOF, but when they are marginal at best it is a hard thing to ignore. And Gonchar doesn't have the best case regardless.
i know stats and awards are just symptoms not the substance of a player’s worth, but as a sorting mechanism i kind of think of two post-season all-stars at D to be a threshold.
how many dmen hit two ASTs and don’t make it into the hall?
off the top of my head, tremblay, bill white (two older guys a lot of us like a lot), eric desjardins, gonchar, dan boyle, subban. among current guys, alex pietrangelo is a non-slam dunk, although maybe he actually is by now.
i always thought of desjardins as just on the right side of in, and part of it maybe is two 2ASTS, because in most cases it demonstrates that you were a top 5-10 dman for a good stretch although occasionally you have a short peak guy like subban.
but i never thought boyle was a HHOFer. so is gonchar more of a desjardins or a boyle?
Pat Stapleton is another. Three 2nd team all-stars for him. If I told you Stapleton led the 1973 playoffs in assists would you believe me? You should, he did. Maybe going to the WHA hurt him a bit, I don't know. Maybe he just didn't have enough great years. But the presence on Team Canada in 1972 and his career in general probably should have his name being brought up more often. It almost never does. Is he really a worse pick than if Gonchar got in?
Carl Brewer is the only defenseman that I know of with 4 year end all-stars (all 2nd team all-star nods) that isn't in. He just might have the weirdest career arc in NHL history. I can never understand it. Wins three Cups, has three all-stars, then quits at 27 years old. Returns 4 years later, is an all-star in 1970 (2nd team) and quits in 1974. Plays a final season in 1980 for whatever reason. Does this in a weak and thin time for defenseman though, in the 1960s. Without his retirements he's probably in. But everything is too spaced out. Should get credit for helping take down Alan Eagleson though. To be honest Brewer belongs before a couple of other d-men who have gotten in, and ahead of Gonchar too.
I don't think two 2nd team all-stars at defense gets you in, or should be a barometer. Gonchar doesn't belong, Desjardins was more solid and reliable but still doesn't quite belong. Boyle, no. Subban has three with a Norris but doesn't belong. Did nothing after the age of 28 and was out of hockey at 32.
Here are two guys definitely with consideration, if not future HHOFers. Letang and Pietrangelo.
Letang has two 2nd team all-stars and then a lot of good seasons along with three Cups, and when the Pens went deep he was instrumental. For whatever reason was left of Team Canada and sometimes he could make a bonehead play coming out of his zone but he was usually sound and a difference maker. He screams "Zubov" as far as I am concerned and Zubov had 1 ast selection, that's it. But was a big help with Cup wins. No matter what Letang gets a long, long look. He'll always be in the mix.
Pietrangelo probably has surpassed Letang. 3 all-stars, 2 Cups. Still only 34. Hard to keep him out at this point even if he is closer to the bottom of the standard, I think he still beats it.
Ironic twist here, Serge Savard, like Phil Housley, had just 1 Second team all-star in his career. Housley it doesn't surprise me, Savard it does, although the 1970s were pretty high end with defenseman. Maybe the 8 Cups and Conn Smythe helped him.
