So......UFO'S.....

Cas

Conversational Black Hole
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Jun 23, 2020
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The thing I've never truly understood about these conspiracy theories is the unshakeable confidence that tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of government workers are capable of pulling these coverups off.

What in these people's lifetime has given them the idea that any government is even remotely competent enough to be able to do a fraction of what they claim is being done every day?
To be generous, it's been done before - the Manhattan Project.

Of course that only had to be secret for three years, there was a war on that featured an unprecedented degree of control over information and movement, and yet there were still leaks (and a very, very obvious public announcement in the end).
 
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barriers

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Feb 10, 2020
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To be generous, it's been done before - the Manhattan Project.

Of course that only had to be secret for three years, there was a war on that featured an unprecedented degree of control over information and movement, and yet there were still leaks (and a very, very obvious public announcement in the end).
I was actually curious how many people were involved, assuming the number would be relatively low. 130,00 people! (ttps://www.energy.gov/lm/manhattan-project-background-information-and-preservation-work#:~:text=At%20its%20peak%2C%20the%20project,the%20Manhattan%20Project%20is%20immense.) I'm sure a huge chunk of those were labourers and tradesmen with no clue to the gravity of the project they were working on but, damn, that's impressive. Touché @Cas

You'd still have a tough time convincing me that many in the Trump/Biden administrations could keep anything under wraps though
 

beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
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To be generous, it's been done before - the Manhattan Project.

Of course that only had to be secret for three years, there was a war on that featured an unprecedented degree of control over information and movement, and yet there were still leaks (and a very, very obvious public announcement in the end).
Would seem so but even of the 120,000 people who worked on something related to the project or was a family member who lived in the town built for the project virtually none of them know what it was about. Only a small number of scientists and military personal knew, heck even Vice President, at the time Truman did not know and only learned about it after he become President.


Secrecy was paramount. Neither the Germans nor the Japanese could learn of the project. Roosevelt and Churchill also agreed that Stalin would be kept in the dark. Consequently, there was no public awareness or debate. Keeping 120,000 people quiet would be impossible; therefore only a small privileged cadre of inner scientists and officials knew about the atomic bomb's development. In fact, Vice-President Truman had never heard of the Manhattan Project until he became President Truman.

Although the Axis powers remained unaware of the efforts at Los Alamos, American leaders later learned that a Soviet spy named KLAUS FUCHS had penetrated the inner circle of scientists.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
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Getting thousands of people to actively engage in a cover up seems unlikely. That doesn't mean there aren't shreds of truth about what the government is doing or hiding though. The leaps people make with some of these theories is why they don't get taken seriously and likely hinders the exposure of things the public should know about.

It's different for sure because you're not dealing with physical objects but the mass surveillance revealed by Snowden (among many other examples) demonstrates the government's willingness to do things they aren't supposed to, with widescale acceptance. It isn't implausible that the government(s) is hiding something.
 
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HabzSauce

Registered User
Jun 10, 2022
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Getting thousands of people to actively engage in a cover up seems unlikely. That doesn't mean there aren't shreds of truth about what the government is doing or hiding though. The leaps people make with some of these theories is why they don't get taken seriously and likely hinders the exposure of things the public should know about.

It's different for sure because you're not dealing with physical objects but the mass surveillance revealed by Snowden (among many other examples) demonstrates the government's willingness to do things they aren't supposed to, with widescale acceptance. It isn't implausible that the government(s) is hiding something.
So i have a theory for this. I don't think all those people are told what's going on. I'd wager that only a select few know and the rest are just doing as they're told without really understanding what's going on due to lack of information, fear, etc.

This includes some government officials. I have no idea who knows what - but if aliens are legit for example, i wouldnt expect every politician/president to know the truth.

Similar to construction workers for example. Let's say Geoff Molson wanted to build a massive building for some really shady stuff. He hires some contractors/builders and tells them it's for work. How would they know he's lying? Would they even care to ask? Probably not. They agree on a price, shake hands and go to work. So the constructions definitely helped facilitate this criminal house, but not necessarily in on it.

Or another example in corporate. You have different departments like sales, marketing & accounting. If the company wanted to pull some shady stuff, I imagine they would speak to only the manager of each department - so 3 total. And then those managers would have to tell their minions to do what is asked because "blah blah blah" or "boss said so, company moving in different direction" etc etc...so same thing all the minions definitely helped facilitate, but not willingly in on it if that makes sense.
 
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Jussi

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Feb 28, 2002
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While I do believe there is life out there in our massive universe, even galaxy, in one form or another. This UFO conspiracy stuff is just over the top. So what these aliens only try and go to the US and they must be bad drivers as they can travel thousands of light years to here but can't seem to park for shit as they keep crashing?
I think the key thing is the first nuclear detonation happening there and the amount of nuclear plants in the country. As in, it's Oppenheimer & co's fault these "visitors" have taken an interest in this planet/dimension.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,209
23,563
So i have a theory for this. I don't think all those people are told what's going on. I'd wager that only a select few know and the rest are just doing as they're told without really understanding what's going on due to lack of information, fear, etc.

This includes some government officials. I have no idea who knows what - but if aliens are legit for example, i wouldnt expect every politician/president to know the truth.

Similar to construction workers for example. Let's say Geoff Molson wanted to build a massive building for some really shady stuff. He hires some contractors/builders and tells them it's for work. How would they know he's lying? Would they even care to ask? Probably not. They agree on a price, shake hands and go to work. So the constructions definitely helped facilitate this criminal house, but not necessarily in on it.

Or another example in corporate. You have different departments like sales, marketing & accounting. If the company wanted to pull some shady stuff, I imagine they would speak to only the manager of each department - so 3 total. And then those managers would have to tell their minions to do what is asked because "blah blah blah" or "boss said so, company moving in different direction" etc etc...so same thing all the minions definitely helped facilitate, but not willingly in on it if that makes sense.

Yep, that's the only way to do it. It's just a question of what they're hiding.
 

JMCx4

Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Sep 3, 2017
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New NASA study published today on the topic at hand (or at thread) ...
NASA UNIDENTIFIED ANOMALOUS PHENOMENA Independent Study Team Report

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

The study of Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP) presents a unique scientific opportunity that demands a rigorous, evidence-based approach. Addressing this challenge will require new and robust data acquisition methods, advanced analysis techniques, a systematic reporting framework and reducing reporting stigma. NASA – with its extensive expertise in these domains and global reputation for scientific openness – is in an excellent position to contribute to UAP studies within the broader whole-of-government framework led by the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO).

NASA has a variety of existing and planned Earth- and space-observing assets, together with an extensive archive of historic and current data sets, which should be directly leveraged to understand UAP. Although NASA’s fleet of Earth-observing satellites typically lack the spatial resolution to detect relatively small objects such as UAP, their state-of-the-art sensors can be directly utilized to probe the state of the local earth, oceanic, and atmospheric conditions that are spatially and temporally coincident with UAPs initially detected via other methods. Thus, NASA’s assets can play a vital role by directly determining whether specific environmental factors are associated with certain reported UAP behaviors or occurrences.

Next, the U.S. commercial remote-sensing industry offers a potent mix of Earth-observing satellites that offer imagery at sub- to several-meter spatial resolution, which is well-matched to the typical spatial scales of known UAP. Although every point on Earth does not have constant high-resolution coverage, the panel finds nonetheless that such commercial constellations could offer a powerful complement to the detection and study of UAP when coincident collection occurs.

At present, analysis of UAP data is hampered by poor sensor calibration, the lack of multiple measurements, the lack of sensor metadata, and the lack of baseline data. Making a concerted effort to improve all aspects is vital, and NASA’s expertise should be comprehensively leveraged as part of a robust and systematic data acquisition strategy within the whole-of-government framework.

Moving forward, NASA should contribute to a comprehensive, government-wide approach to collecting future data. The importance of detecting UAP with multiple, well-calibrated sensors is paramount, and NASA could potentially leverage its considerable expertise in this domain to utilize multispectral or hyperspectral data as part of a rigorous data acquisition campaign.

The panel finds that artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning (ML) are essential tools for identifying rare occurrences, potentially including UAP, within vast datasets. However, these powerful techniques will only work on well-characterized data gathered with respect to strong standards. NASA’s extensive experience in the application of state-of-the-art computational and ... data-analysis techniques should therefore be leveraged to provide critical assistance. Once again, appropriate data collection, curation, and distribution are paramount; NASA, with its world-leading experience in these aspects is well-positioned to play a leading role.

Engaging the public is also a critical aspect of understanding UAP. The panel sees several advantages to augmenting data collection efforts using modern crowdsourcing techniques, including open-source smartphone-based apps that simultaneously gather imaging data and other smartphone sensor metadata from multiple citizen observers worldwide. NASA should therefore explore the viability of developing or acquiring such a crowdsourcing system as part of its strategy. In turn, the panel finds that there is currently no standardized system for making civilian UAP reports, resulting in sparse and incomplete data devoid of curation or vetting protocols. NASA should play a vital role by assisting AARO in its development of this Federal system.

The negative perception surrounding the reporting of UAP poses an obstacle to collecting data on these phenomena. NASA’s very involvement in UAP will play a vital role in reducing stigma associated with UAP reporting, which almost certainly leads to data attrition at present. NASA’s long-standing public trust, which is essential for communicating findings about these phenomena to citizens, is crucial for destigmatizing UAP reporting. The scientific processes used by NASA encourage critical thinking; NASA can model for the public how to best approach the study of UAP, by utilizing transparent reporting, rigorous analysis, and public engagement.

Finally, the threat to U.S. airspace safety posed by UAP is self-evident. The panel finds that a particularly promising avenue for deeper integration within a systematic, evidenced-based framework for UAP is the Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS), which NASA administers for the FAA. This confidential and voluntary reporting system for pilots, air traffic controllers, and other professional aviation staff, receives approximately 100,000 reports per year. Although not initially designed for UAP collection, better harnessing it for commercial pilot UAP reporting would provide a critical database that would be valuable for the whole-of-government effort to understand UAP. In turn, NASA’s long history of partnership with the FAA should be leveraged to investigate how advanced, real-time analysis techniques could be applied to future generations of air traffic management (ATM) systems.
ETA: Translation ... "We're NASA, and we're here to help. Send money." 🤑
 
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JMCx4

Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Sep 3, 2017
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A Scientific American op-ed piece by the U.S. DoD's former director of AARO ... Here’s What I Learned as the U.S. Government’s UFO Hunter

... Carl Sagan popularized the maxim that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” This advice should not be optional for policy makers. In today’s world of misinformation, conspiracy driven decision-making and sensationalist-dominated governance, our capacity for rational, evidence-based critical thinking is eroding, with deleterious consequences for our ability to effectively deal with multiplying challenges of ever-increasing complexity.

As director of the Department of Defense’s All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), charged by Congress in 2022 to help bring science-based clarity and resolution to the long-standing mystery surrounding credible observations of unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP), also known as UFOs, I experienced this erosion up close and personal. And it was one factor in my decision to step down from my position last December. After painstakingly assembling a team of highly talented and motivated personnel and working with them to develop a rational, systematic and science-based strategy to investigate these phenomena, our efforts were ultimately overwhelmed by sensational but unsupported claims that ignored contradictory evidence yet captured the attention of policy makers and the public, driving legislative battles and dominating the public narrative.

The result of this whirlwind of tall tales, fabrication and secondhand or thirdhand retellings of the same, was a social media frenzy and a significant amount of congressional and executive time and energy spent on investigating these so-called claims—as if we didn’t have anything better to do. ...
 

Beau Knows

Registered User
Mar 4, 2013
11,562
7,355
Canada
Anyone ever see Mirage Men (2013)? It's about an Air Force Special Agent who fed disinformation to the UFO community to cover up secret US technologies.



It's hard not to see the news on the UFO subject lately and think it's possible that people like David Grusch could be victims of similar disinformation campaigns.
 

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