So the Canucks were a product of PDO all this time? Or are they still a legitimate contender?

[Regal]

Canucks

2024 Forwards > 2023 Forwards
2024 Defensemen < 2023 Defensemen
Goaltending remains to be seen based on if/when Demko returns and if he can return to Vezina contender level but currently, while suprisingly solid when Lankinen is in net 2024 Goaltending < 2023 Goaltending

The forwards are better on paper but I wouldn’t say the forwards are better in practice this year yet. Miller, Boeser, and Joshua have all been worse and missed time. Hoglander has been much worse. Pettersson has now picked it up again but was better at the start of last year. Garland is better and Sherwood and DeBrusk have been much better than their counterparts last year, but I don’t think it’ll be better overall unless Miller gets back and he Boeser continue their play from last year.

 

[Coffey]

YES! We should all hate the Flames, always.

lmao Truth

But our 7 game tight series definitely was crazier than us giving them the gentleman's sweep a few years ago lol

 

[K1984]

Silovs played quite well that series. Kept the Canucks in the first few games and now doesn't get the credit he deserves from Canucks fans. A few stinkers in games the Canucks were being outplayed in anyways shouldn't discount that.

And why not? We're talking about your hypothetical "what if" world. You don't think a healthy McDavid, Draisaitl and Kane aren't a major upgrade over the versions they were in the playoffs with their respective rib injuries, hernias etc?

You want to live with your head buried in the sand and pretend Demko coming off a serious long-term injury is the same goalie he was pre-injury than you're just as obtuse. Especially so if you evidently can't apply your same standard the other way.

If it weren't for Silovs the Oilers would have run away with Games 6 and 7 with more goals than they ultimately ended up with. Silovs stood on his head for the first half of Game 7, he's the only reason Nuck fans even have the opportunity to laughably say "what if that shot late in the game that didn't hit the net actually did hit the net!"

The only games where Silovs sucked in that series were games the Oilers threw away anyways. Laughable exercise in self soothing to suggest that Demko would have made all the difference. Silovs gets touted as the next coming of Ken Dryden and Cam Ward, then when they lose he sucks and the whole reason they lost. Funny how the goal posts move.

 

[thekernel]

If it weren't for Silovs the Oilers would have run away with Games 6 and 7 with more goals than they ultimately ended up with. Silovs stood on his head for the first half of Game 7, he's the only reason Nuck fans even have the opportunity to laughably say "what if that shot late in the game that didn't hit the net actually did hit the net!"

The only games where Silovs sucked in that series were games the Oilers threw away anyways. Laughable exercise in self soothing to suggest that Demko would have made all the difference. Silovs gets touted as the next coming of Ken Dryden and Cam Ward, then when they lose he sucks and the whole reason they lost. Funny how the goal posts move.

Talk about self-soothing. Good luck trying to win a Stanley cup with unscreened 60ft point shots

 

[K1984]

Talk about self-soothing. Good luck trying to win a Stanley cup with unscreened 60ft point shots

Nuck fans in a nutshell.

 

[Hoglander]

Different to you because it’s the only thing that justifies the ridiculous “Canucks win the cup with Demko/beat the Oilers” rhetoric. Everyone’s tired of the excuses.

Give it a break or at least be consistent with your arguments. The only thing embarrassing is your make belief world. Once again, back to reality…

Or do you want to keep playing make belief where Klefbom isn’t on the Oilers IR anymore as well?

Mcdrai was soooo severely injured that they put up historic numbers. Is that the same as being too hurt to play? Didn't think so.

And who is the first person the Oilers blame after 99% of their losses? Their goalie.

Stop pretending it's the same thing. Pretty sad when you can't admit it.

 

[Nucker101]

Lol

Silovs put up a .882 sv% in that series vs the Oilers

 

[MVP Zacha]

I really want to contribute to this thread but I have no idea what PDO is.

 

[Else Ermine]

I really want to contribute to this thread but I have no idea what PDO is.

It's where you disregard any and all other context, experience or knowledge and instead just add a team's communal shooting percentage and save percentage together and expect it to equal 100. If it's a bit less you claim they're unlucky and deserve more points, if it's a bit more you tell everyone they're getting lucky and their success won't last.

In all seriousness, it's a fine stat to look at with wider context and teams do all typically hover around that 100 mark but this time last year there was a whole discussion on here about how the Canucks hadn't been good, they were just lucky to have been racking up points and PDO was the smoking gun that proved them right. It was dumb.

 

[syz]

Lol

Silovs put up a .882 sv% in that series vs the Oilers

And was still the only reason the series was close. I mean alongside Skinner being even worse.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Every year a fanbase tries to argue that pdo isn't a real thing, and then come back down to earth the next year like clockwork.

But PDO really isn’t a real thing. It’s like the old argument about +/-, taking unrelated statistics and mashing them together with the arbitrary rationale that “if you’re far off the average, it probably means something”.

 

[PuckG]

Mcdrai was soooo severely injured that they put up historic numbers. Is that the same as being too hurt to play? Didn't think so.

And who is the first person the Oilers blame after 99% of their losses? Their goalie.

Stop pretending it's the same thing. Pretty sad when you can't admit it.

Is that supposed to be held against them? What a moronic argument. Like I said before, you can’t equate one crucial player being out to three crucial players playing through injury.

The only thing that’s sad is your imaginary world:

“In my imaginary world, Demko, a top player for the Canucks is healthy, but none of the Oilers top players are are allowed to be healthy, and thus the Canucks beat the Oilers/become champs.”

That’s not even mentioning the fact that Demko is still out - 6 months after the post-season.

Absolutely delusional. Enjoy whatever weird cope you need.

 

[ijuka]

It's where you disregard any and all other context, experience or knowledge and instead just add a team's communal shooting percentage and save percentage together and expect it to equal 100. If it's a bit less you claim they're unlucky and deserve more points, if it's a bit more you tell everyone they're getting lucky and their success won't last.

In all seriousness, it's a fine stat to look at with wider context and teams do all typically hover around that 100 mark but this time last year there was a whole discussion on here about how the Canucks hadn't been good, they were just lucky to have been racking up points and PDO was the smoking gun that proved them right. It was dumb.

Was it dumb? In January, Canucks had 1.05 PDO. From that point until the end of the season, Canucks had 1.00 PDO, ending the season at 1.025 PDO.

So, a scenario that reinforces the PDO argument isn't very convincing as an attempt to prove the PDO argument wrong.

 

[Nucker101]

And was still the only reason the series was close. I mean alongside Skinner being even worse.

yeah, the math doesn't add up there. It was a close series because the Canucks tried everything possible to make it a low event series.

 

[RandV]

It is a clear upgrade - assuming he returns completely healthy and in form - but you’re deluded to think he comes back in that fashion given how many long term injuries Demko has dealt with. He is still not back. Is your expectation that he comes in and posts 0.910 immediately in the post season to give you your hypothetical Cup win last season?

It’s an upgrade the same way a healthy McDavid, Draisaitl and Kane are a massive upgrade compared to them with hernias, broken ribs etc.

The only thing laughable is your inability to apply your logic both ways. Talk about delusional…

I'm trying to avoid the Oilers argument but there's your standard wear and tear players go through in the playoffs, especially star players that get heavily overplayed. You're not playing McDavid 23 minutes a game in the playoffs and going to have him 100% healthy, and there's a vast difference between that and the player who isn't even playing.

In regards to Demko and the Canucks this season it's hard to say but he appears to be getting closer, so we have to hope he can come back rested and have at least half a season to get into game shape.

 

[Else Ermine]

Was it dumb? In January, Canucks had 1.05 PDO. From that point until the end of the season, Canucks had 1.00 PDO, ending the season at 1.025 PDO.

So, a scenario that reinforces the PDO argument isn't very convincing as an attempt to prove the PDO argument wrong.

What on earth is your point?
Did that number regress? Yes, sure. Did the team's success fall off to an average level with it? No, they wound up winning their division, and being a very tough out in the playoffs.
The premise of that whole thing was that Vancouver's hot start was a mirage and PDO was the proof of that. So yes, it was dumb then and it's dumb now because clearly they were a better team than assumed by that argument.

 

[Three On Zero]

How is this thread still open? They're missing a top 5 goalie and top 5ish center. No shit their fancy stats have regressed. This isn't the gotcha the spreadsheet jockeys want it to be

And at a near identical position as last season, they are what? 3 points behind?

 

[Bankerguy]

Canucks are on the same pace as last year WITH AVERAGE PDO....
i was telling everyone on here last year...yes , they were rocking high PDO but it wasnt because they were scoring fluke shots from center ice...
they were not generating a ton of shots or chances 5on5 but the ones they did create were like easy tap-ins, 2 on 1's in close, bank shots off the goalies pads on purpose so the second winger has an empty net.
In the playoffs, they had trouble generating those juicy Grade AAA chances as teams closed off the middle of the ice and Van kept trying to make the fancy play rather than fire shots 5 feet in from the wall for rebounds, tips, etc. Stubborn coach wouldnt adjust.

PDO is average this year and they're trying to generate more off the rush ..this is why the PDO has dropped... its 'working' though as they're still a top team from a point percentage. Which is amazing considering no Demko, no jt. miller, no boeser for a while, no Hronek...

If Van gets healthy and picks up another D, they could make some serious noise

 

[Three On Zero]

I really want to contribute to this thread but I have no idea what PDO is.

It’s a fancy stat that’s essentially meaningless. It tells you when a player is on a hot streak

 

[IComeInPeace]

After 24 games the Canucks are 6 games over .500 in 2024-2025

After 24 games the Canucks were 7 games over .500 in 2023-2024

When you think about all that has gone wrong for the team this season compared to last year when everything seemed to be going right…

 

[Hoglander]

Is that supposed to be held against them? What a moronic argument. Like I said before, you can’t equate one crucial player being out to three crucial players playing through injury.

The only thing that’s sad is your imaginary world:

“In my imaginary world, Demko, a top player for the Canucks is healthy, but none of the Oilers top players are are allowed to be healthy, and thus the Canucks beat the Oilers/become champs.”

That’s not even mentioning the fact that Demko is still out - 6 months after the post-season.

Absolutely delusional. Enjoy whatever weird cope you need.

What are you even talking about? I said 1 thing, and you've gone a different direction completely, and it's just a bunch of tunnel vision mumbo jumbo.

If you don't understand the difference, and how important top-end goaltending is compared to sub .900 from a raw inexperienced rookie... then lord help you

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Different to you because it’s the only thing that justifies the ridiculous “Canucks win the cup with Demko/beat the Oilers” rhetoric. Everyone’s tired of the excuses.

Give it a break or at least be consistent with your arguments. The only thing embarrassing is your make belief world. Once again, back to reality…

Or do you want to keep playing make belief where Klefbom isn’t on the Oilers IR anymore as well?

Your argument holds water if someone is claiming firmly that we would have won with Demko. But it's reasonable to wonder if things would have gone differently. Afterall, it was a 7 game series that came down to one goal.

Wondering about this doesn't denigrate your team or yourself personally.

 

[Three On Zero]

Your argument holds water if someone is claiming firmly that we would have won with Demko. But it's reasonable to wonder if things would have gone differently. Afterall, it was a 7 game series that came down to one goal.

Wondering about this doesn't denigrate your team or yourself personally.

Seems like a lack of understanding the difference between injuries that remove a player from the team and minor injuries that players can deal with. (Which both teams were dealing with players whom were playing through injuries)

At the end of the day Demko may have been enough to swing the series but he wasn’t available to do so. It’s over and done with, no need to try and revisit what may have happened when it didn’t. It’s rather unfortunate but it
is what it is.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

demko injured - Google Suche

 

[JianYang]

Your argument holds water if someone is claiming firmly that we would have won with Demko. But it's reasonable to wonder if things would have gone differently. Afterall, it was a 7 game series that came down to one goal.

Wondering about this doesn't denigrate your team or yourself personally.

Svilovs stepped in admirably but he's not demko. Anybody who watched demko in the playoffs against Vegas a few years back almost singlehandedly pulling the Canucks through that series will remember just how big of an impact he could put on a series.

It reminds me of when the Habs lost price in the semi finals and brought in tokarski. Again, tolarski was fine in his own right but the mindset and complexion of the team changes when you go from an elite goalie to an unknown.

It's hard to argue that a healthy demko isn't the marginal difference required at that time, but now the Canucks have another issue which is whether demko is durable enough moving forward and whether he's still the same guy.