So are we all on the same train with Todd?

[Axl Rhoadz]

It has something to do with him. He and his team haven’t managed to get Petersen playing properly. Of course much of that is on Cal but equally he’s gotten worse on their watch.

Durzi though is definitely on him. Firstly he dressed him, second he keeps putting him out in key situations. This is despite his ability to make a dumb gaff. If he insisted on Bjornfot being called up he would be, same with Spence. Of course Durzi takes a huge slice of blame but it has ‘something’ to do with TM. No success of failure is down to just player(s) or coach.

Eh, disagree -- especially with those two examples. TM doesn't coach Petersen to suck -- TM doesn't coach Durzi to make that pass. Let's get real, coaches coach systems, it's up to the players to perform. When the players don't perform to the system, results are not usually going to be positive.

Here's the positive though -- when the team hits 98 points like they did last year, nobody is saying that's all due to TM -- no, most of it is to to the players' performance.

 

[BringTheReign]

I find it difficult to separate Todd's system (the forest) from his game management (the trees). I think the type of hockey he's brought are the bones of what you need to be a contending team in this era. It's fast-paced, capitalizes on turnovers, and generally leads to more chances for than against. However, I am growing frustrated with the power play deployment, the 3-on-3 lineups, and the icetime players like Kaliyev, Byfield, etc get even when players like Kempe are slumping.

All this being said, I'm not sure we're having this conversation if we're getting even .905 goaltending from Cal and Quick. I also agree that we're not firing Todd with a $5M salary next season unless we know someone else is hiring him. I think next season is the year you make a mid-season coaching change if we're not taking a solid hold of one of the top 3 spots in the division.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Us fools are stuck with Todd for the next 5 months minimum. There is zero upside for management if they make a coaching change early to mid season. The flaws are clearly roster construction related primarily.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I find it difficult to separate Todd's system (the forest) from his game management (the trees). I think the type of hockey he's brought are the bones of what you need to be a contending team in this era. It's fast-paced, capitalizes on turnovers, and generally leads to more chances for than against. However, I am growing frustrated with the power play deployment, the 3-on-3 lineups, and the icetime players like Kaliyev, Byfield, etc get even when players like Kempe are slumping.

All this being said, I'm not sure we're having this conversation if we're getting even .905 goaltending from Cal and Quick. I also agree that we're not firing Todd with a $5M salary next season unless we know someone else is hiring him. I think next season is the year you make a mid-season coaching change if we're not taking a solid hold of one of the top 3 spots in the division.

I can agree with that wholeheartdly.

Todd's system is with the times, I think.

Todd's game management makes Darryl Sutter look like a new-age 30 year old coach.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So Brunette led the finest season for the panthers, jack adams finalist, and couldn't get past the 2nd round....and was immediately rehired as an assistant coach.....if he was that well thought of.....why wouldn't any other team give him a head coaching job?

Green is just brutal......there's a reason why Vancouver went on an absolute tear after he left......

Leaman, his one year as US coach is now....development history? College to Pro is absolutely a tough road to follow....

Velluci should have a job already, but again, no one is giving him a chance....why?

Brunette wasn't rehired immediately because other vacancies got filled with retreads. Do you think Trotz sucks? Why is he unemployed? On this criteria, we couldn't ever hire anyone because they all suck.

Boudreau is so much better than Green that Van is currently 5th to last instead of 3rd to last. I think most will agree meddling ownership and goofy GMing is the issue in Van more so than coaching. I suggest Green and Brunette because often a coach's SECOND tenure is a successful one based on what they learned on the first, and both guys have been lauded as newer up-and-comers with success at several levels as well as NHL pedigree/clout for snobby vets.

Leaman has connections to Kings prospects as well. I agree on college to pro, not my favorite. Though Montgomery is acquitting himself well.

Velluci, see Brunette, passed over for retreads, no GM wants to be the one to take a chance on a 'new' coach around the league.

And again I'm not even suggesting fire todd and hire one of these guys immediately, i'm just saying they're out there and hanging onto TM strictly because he's the devil you know vs. the devil you don't is foolish. Hell, if it MUST be a retread, Trotz exists.

 

[kingsfan28]

If Barry Trotz would come to LA this should have been done yesterday

So you want to go back to a defense first team, extremely structured, low scoring team? Pretty sure he was booted for keeping his teams from scoring with his style of coaching.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It has something to do with him. He and his team haven’t managed to get Petersen playing properly. Of course much of that is on Cal but equally he’s gotten worse on their watch.

Durzi though is definitely on him. Firstly he dressed him, second he keeps putting him out in key situations. This is despite his ability to make a dumb gaff. If he insisted on Bjornfot being called up he would be, same with Spence. Of course Durzi takes a huge slice of blame but it has ‘something’ to do with TM. No success of failure is down to just player(s) or coach.

Yeah I find it hard to validate the argument that the players are at fault for results rather than the coaching. I mean, yeah, TM doesn't pass the puck for Durzi, but he puts him out at the end of a game on his wrong side to protect a lead. He doesn't make Fiala lose the puck in front of his own net, but we end up there because he put out Fiala and Arvidsson vs. Toews on the OT faceoff. He didn't not cover Giroux last night but he sure could have recognized Kopitar's sagging energy level and horrendous defensive play before he put him out there vs. skaters like Stutzle and Chabot.

The players have to play but get this--the coach can put them in positions to succeed rather than fail. TM does the latter far, FAR too much.

 

[SufferingSelfCreated]

Yes...YES. come with me me to the dark side. UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!

But seriously, I just want to see the Kings be successful. And Kuala Bears are notorious(Empirical?) losers.

 

[Fishhead]

There is obvious angst over TM being so highly paid, but what did you expect? It's LA. If you are someone like Trotz who has been successful would you want to log all those flight hours? I mean, he's got 4 kids - there is a lot to be said for being around at home and getting to sleep in your own bed 70% of the time during the season. Any established coach is going to cost a lot more for that reason alone.

I think the premium isn't what it used to be with two more far west teams added, but it's still there.

 

[kingsfan28]

Yeah I find it hard to validate the argument that the players are at fault for results rather than the coaching. I mean, yeah, TM doesn't pass the puck for Durzi, but he puts him out at the end of a game on his wrong side to protect a lead. He doesn't make Fiala lose the puck in front of his own net, but we end up there because he put out Fiala and Arvidsson vs. Toews on the OT faceoff. He didn't not cover Giroux last night but he sure could have recognized Kopitar's sagging energy level and horrendous defensive play before he put him out there vs. skaters like Stutzle and Chabot.

The players have to play but get this--the coach can put them in positions to succeed rather than fail. TM does the latter far, FAR too much.

Aside from the poor deployment in most of our overtimes, the biggest problem I see is the style they want to play. TM has said we're not good enough to run and gun, yet the players keep doing it. Who is that on, him or the players? They did it again last night, stretch passes, east west skating, high risk passes across the middle, it was all there, and we tend to lose these games. Every player turned it over at least once last night making risky plays , while the sens played a north/south style that ate us up. How does he get them to play the way he needs them? We've lost so many games because our guys are just not listening and flat out stupid.

 

[Statto]

Yeah I find it hard to validate the argument that the players are at fault for results rather than the coaching. I mean, yeah, TM doesn't pass the puck for Durzi, but he puts him out at the end of a game on his wrong side to protect a lead. He doesn't make Fiala lose the puck in front of his own net, but we end up there because he put out Fiala and Arvidsson vs. Toews on the OT faceoff. He didn't not cover Giroux last night but he sure could have recognized Kopitar's sagging energy level and horrendous defensive play before he put him out there vs. skaters like Stutzle and Chabot.

The players have to play but get this--the coach can put them in positions to succeed rather than fail. TM does the latter far, FAR too much.

Whilst we agree on most of it, I’m not buying that dumbass pass from Durzi had anything to do with playing the wrong side. His eyes work regardless of which side he plays and it won’t affect his spacial awareness. He does stuff like that no matter what side he plays.

Aside from the poor deployment in most of our overtimes, the biggest problem I see is the style they want to play. TM has said we're not good enough to run and gun, yet the players keep doing it. Who is that on, him or the players? They did it again last night, stretch passes, east west skating, high risk passes across the middle, it was all there, and we tend to lose these games. Every player turned it over at least once last night making risky plays , while the sens played a north/south style that ate us up. How does he get them to play the way he needs them? We've lost so many games because our guys are just not listening and flat out stupid.

He sits player x for a period… make sure it’s a vet. If that doesn’t work make it a game and a different vet. It’d soon fix it. Players care more about ice time than anything else.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Todd is a terrible rebuilding coach with no instinct for game management or deployment or development. So in that sense, yes, he should’ve never been hired.

But people need to understand how much of this lands at Blake’s feet. This is one of the most poorly constructed “playoff” teams in the league. Scotty Bowman couldn’t conjure up centers and shutdown LHD. Al Arbour couldn’t rewind the clock on Jon Quick by ten years.

Yes, Todd sucks, but even if he didn’t, this team would still be struggling. Our general manager does not have a long term vision for this franchise, and never did. He didn’t have a long term vision when he signed Kovalchuk and thought we would contend for a Cup. And he doesn’t have a long term vision now by trading for a winger like Fiala despite not having a single center in the franchise capable of playing with him.

Blake does not know what he’s doing. He has no plan. So yeah, get rid of Todd, but that’s the smaller of two malignant tumors here.

 

[Statto]

Eh, disagree -- especially with those two examples. TM doesn't coach Petersen to suck -- TM doesn't coach Durzi to make that pass. Let's get real, coaches coach systems, it's up to the players to perform. When the players don't perform to the system, results are not usually going to be positive.

Here's the positive though -- when the team hits 98 points like they did last year, nobody is saying that's all due to TM -- no, most of it is to to the players' performance.

So coaches don’t have an impact on play individual performance? Of course they do. Equally a players professionalism, fundamental ability etc impacts a coaches ability to do his job.

TM puts Durzi on the ice in a key situation in the full knowledge that the sort of play he made is 10x more likely than any other player on the ice. He has ‘some’ responsibility, we can debate the % but he has some of the blames. As for Petersen, given his technique has worsened I do not see that as being just the player. Equally if the public criticism from Todd leads to Petersen turning it around then he gets some of the credit, it’s not just Cal that would deserve the plaudits.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

So coaches don’t have an impact on play individual performance? Of course they do. Equally a players professionalism, fundamental ability etc impacts a coaches ability to do his job.

TM puts Durzi on the ice in a key situation in the full knowledge that the sort of play he made is 10x more likely than any other player on the ice. He has ‘some’ responsibility, we can debate the % but he has some of the blames. As for Petersen, given his technique has worsened I do not see that as being just the player. Equally if the public criticism from Todd leads to Petersen turning it around then he gets some of the credit, it’s not just Cal that would deserve the plaudits.

You are severely overestimating AND underestimating coaching......at the same time, that's impressive.....

Durzi on the ice in a key situation....so two things will happen, he will make the play, or he will f*** up.....right? So once he f***s up, you have two choices......do you go back to him, or do you sit him, if you sit him, what message are you sending? I mean f***, the entire board bitches about it all the time.....hey rookie, young player, non-vet, you f***ed up, so you are sitting..........which is what this board claims he does......and then bitch....when he doesn't do that??

Gotta explain that one to me....

 

[YP44]

So you want to go back to a defense first team, extremely structured, low scoring team? Pretty sure he was booted for keeping his teams from scoring with his style of coaching.

I want to go back to winning constantly.

 

[Statto]

You are severely overestimating AND underestimating coaching......at the same time, that's impressive.....

Durzi on the ice in a key situation....so two things will happen, he will make the play, or he will f*** up.....right? So once he f***s up, you have two choices......do you go back to him, or do you sit him, if you sit him, what message are you sending? I mean f***, the entire board bitches about it all the time.....hey rookie, young player, non-vet, you f***ed up, so you are sitting..........which is what this board claims he does......and then bitch....when he doesn't do that??

Gotta explain that one to me....

I agree I’m deliberately over stating it. My main point was that you cannot say it (in this case a players error) has nothing to do with the coach. Of Course it does because the coach chooses to put any player in a given situation and has some accountability for that… both success and failure because it’s a symbiotic relationship.

 

[Kurrilino]

But wait, I thought they overachieved last year and were merely outsucked. Therefore, they weren’t really a 98 point team so maybe what we are seeing now is technically NOT a step backwards.

I would agree here.

What we see is exactly what i expect for the last and the next 2 years.
We were lucky so far that Vilardi decided that he can play hockey

 

[Schrute farms]

There is obvious angst over TM being so highly paid, but what did you expect? It's LA. If you are someone like Trotz who has been successful would you want to log all those flight hours? I mean, he's got 4 kids - there is a lot to be said for being around at home and getting to sleep in your own bed 70% of the time during the season. Any established coach is going to cost a lot more for that reason alone.

I think the premium isn't what it used to be with two more far west teams added, but it's still there.

You make valid points about the West Coast premium issue with a prospective coach and getting him to sign up.

Then again, it could be looked at differently and in a positive. SoCal is a beautiful place with amazing school districts and colleges. Having some money while living in greater LA area is on a different level; having rich money (like a Coach does making $3M+/year) is a dream life.
Not to mention, there is virtually no fan pressure. And almost no media hounding you and making your life miserable. Certainly not like there is in Canada, and other Hockey focused towns (East Coast, Minn, Pitt, etc.).
You can also go about your life (shopping, restaurants, movies, etc.) and pretty much go unnoticed in the greater LA area.
All of that, and more, is a pretty good selling point to a coach and his family.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You are severely overestimating AND underestimating coaching......at the same time, that's impressive.....

Durzi on the ice in a key situation....so two things will happen, he will make the play, or he will f*** up.....right? So once he f***s up, you have two choices......do you go back to him, or do you sit him, if you sit him, what message are you sending? I mean f***, the entire board bitches about it all the time.....hey rookie, young player, non-vet, you f***ed up, so you are sitting..........which is what this board claims he does......and then bitch....when he doesn't do that??

Gotta explain that one to me....

It's simple, he shouldn't be there in the first place.

Sitting him for f***ing up is stupid when it's your stupid error that put him in the position to f*** up in the first place.

On a roster with a million vanilla defensive and two-way D why are we rolling out Sean f***ing Durzi on his wrong side as a stopper?

You're focusing on the coaching response/outcome rather than the initial decision, which is the biggest criticism, TM's constant misuse of the tools he does have at his disposal.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I agree I’m deliberately over stating it. My main point was that you cannot say it (in this case a players error) has nothing to do with the coach. Of Course it does because the coach chooses to put any player in a given situation and has some accountability for that… both success and failure because it’s a symbiotic relationship.

Disagree.....you HAVE to put players out there......unless you are saying that the only player on the ice that could EVER make a mistake, is Durzi......and that's clearly not what you are saying....

It's simple, he shouldn't be there in the first place.

Sitting him for f***ing up is stupid when it's your stupid error that put him in the position to f*** up in the first place.

On a roster with a million vanilla defensive and two-way D why are we rolling out Sean f***ing Durzi on his wrong side as a stopper?

You're focusing on the coaching response/outcome rather than the initial decision, which is the biggest criticism, TM's constant misuse of the tools he does have at his disposal.

LMAO yes, it was Durzi playing on the LEFT SIDE...that caused him to f*** up both passes to the middle.....

Jesus Christ.....that's patently f***ing stupid....

You want to say playing on the left side caused him to not keep a puck in at the blueline and led to a goal, sure, I can go with that.....but if your argument is so f***ing stupid as to say, he made a clear pass up the middle....after waiting 30 seconds...is because he was playing on the left side....that's just idiotic.

EDIT: There is a REASON Durzi is playing on the left side.....bet you can't guess what it is other than, OMG TM is an idiot....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

LMAO yes, it was Durzi playing on the LEFT SIDE...that caused him to f*** up both passes to the middle.....

Jesus Christ.....that's patently f***ing stupid....

You want to say playing on the left side caused him to not keep a puck in at the blueline and led to a goal, sure, I can go with that.....but if your argument is so f***ing stupid as to say, he made a clear pass up the middle....after waiting 30 seconds...is because he was playing on the left side....that's just idiotic.

EDIT: There is a REASON Durzi is playing on the left side.....bet you can't guess what it is other than, OMG TM is an idiot....

That's not what I said.

On a roster with a million other vanilla defenseman, Sean Durzi should not be taking key defensive minutes at the end of the game, full stop.

No, TM does not play the game for Sean Durzi. Sean Durzi has a responsibility to not make a stupid pass. But TM has the responsibility to not start him in the defensive zone with seconds to go with 3-5 other options readily available.

Sure, the roster is a Blake function as well as TM, that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for players' play as they control the roster and deployment. If players are being misused and/or not used to their strengths, that is a coaching issue, not a Durzi IQ issue.

Hell look how long it took them to get Kaliyev and Durzi properly situated on the PP. That's coaching.

TM is an excellent xs-and-os guy and apparently a terrific human being. But his in-game management has always been a criticism and his bench management is some seriously peewee bullshit, it's amongst the worst I've ever seen. He'd benefit from an assistant coach lining dudes up on the bench in the order they should go out in, he's that pathetic. Shouldn't be really surprised though, this is a guy whose best coaching move in Edmonton was to load up the top line and give McDavid 28 minutes...looks pretty familiar now.

 

[Cianide]

The only thing I fault Todd for is not utilizing Vilardi at center, which I believe falls on Blake and Todd. Other than that, I think he's done a fine job. Vilardi is no good at wing.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's not what I said.

On a roster with a million other vanilla defenseman, Sean Durzi should not be taking key defensive minutes at the end of the game, full stop.

No, TM does not play the game for Sean Durzi. Sean Durzi has a responsibility to not make a stupid pass. But TM has the responsibility to not start him in the defensive zone with seconds to go with 3-5 other options readily available.

Sure, the roster is a Blake function as well as TM, that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for players' play as they control the roster and deployment. If players are being misused and/or not used to their strengths, that is a coaching issue, not a Durzi IQ issue.

Hell look how long it took them to get Kaliyev and Durzi properly situated on the PP. That's coaching.

TM is an excellent xs-and-os guy and apparently a terrific human being. But his in-game management has always been a criticism and his bench management is some seriously peewee bullshit, it's amongst the worst I've ever seen. He'd benefit from an assistant coach lining dudes up on the bench in the order they should go out in, he's that pathetic. Shouldn't be really surprised though, this is a guy whose best coaching move in Edmonton was to load up the top line and give McDavid 28 minutes...looks pretty familiar now.

Well, 2 other options, assuming that it was next shift, 2 D are down (just coming off) so let's see, we have Doughty and Andersson (obvious 1st choice, also obvious probably just came off) then Durzi, Roy, Walker, Edler, and pretty much everyone feels all 4 are equably brutal within their own right.......

The only thing I fault Todd for is not utilizing Vilardi at center, which I believe falls on Blake and Todd. Other than that, I think he's done a fine job. Vilardi is no good at wing.

Vilardi is EXCELLENT at wing........he's literally what you want on the wing, size, prescence and hands.....his skating does not lend itself to play Center...it never has, he played C growing up and in the OHL, because he was heads and tails talented above everyone else, not the case in the pros.

 

[Cianide]

Vilardi is EXCELLENT at wing........he's literally what you want on the wing, size, prescence and hands.....his skating does not lend itself to play Center...it never has, he played C growing up and in the OHL, because he was heads and tails talented above everyone else, not the case in the pros.

Tavares is a great center and he's slow. Why is speed so important. Vilardi's an average skater. That's all he needs to be. It's time to admit the Kings screwed the pooch with Vilardi.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well, 2 other options, assuming that it was next shift, 2 D are down (just coming off) so let's see, we have Doughty and Andersson (obvious 1st choice, also obvious probably just came off) then Durzi, Roy, Walker, Edler, and pretty much everyone feels all 4 are equably brutal within their own right.......

I agree, but even with their weaknesses, Edler/Walker are a better idea than Durzi, and neither is as likely to throw the puck up the middle, we're probably just getting an icing.

But again, this is a very specific point. If it were just once or even twice and just the aforementioned Durzi situations, I'd say they're just trying to make him improve or something. But it's all over the place--ie. Arvidsson and Fiala in OT facing off vs. Toews, putting gassed guys out who just took shifts vs. Chabot/Stutzle, i mean there are examples every stinking game of just baffling decisions. Not judgment calls, not 'oh x went out last shift so it makes sense,' just almost literally the worst decisions that can be made in any given moment game after game.