So... Are the Penguins Even Going to Try?

[CheckingLineCenter]

Lmao the Caps sucked last year. Kind of worse than the Penguins but obviously snuck into the playoffs so sure, they were better.

But there’s no guarantee they’re any decent next year or better than the Pens.

Far from some model of success that the Pens should’ve followed.

 

[Human]

Reirden is gone, but not Sullivan.

Brainfart, totally forgot they let everyone go except for Sullivan.

 

[eXile3]

Do the results show exactly that though?

Playoff wins since 2014/2015:
Penguins = 45
Capitals = 44

Regular season wins since 2014/2015:
Penguins = 433
Capitals = 449

Draft picks since 2014/2015:
Penguins = 3x 1st rounders and 10x second rounders
Capitals = 8x 1st rounders and 9x second rounders

Ignoring what happened 15 years ago since it's largely irrelevant to decisions from the last 7-10 years.

In short: The only difference between the Caps and Penguins success-wise has been that extra cup, which everyone knows that those 3 cups from 16-18 all went through the Caps/Pens 2nd round. Caps and Pens have been equally competitive and overall successful since that point. Yet, due to better cap and asset planning, the Capitals are:
1) A better team today
2) A younger team today
3) In a better cap situation today and in the future
4) Have a significantly better prospect pool to help the future outlook of their team

Really has nothing to do with "Pens had more success so it's fine". The Capitals were just better at planning the rebuild.

“The only difference is a Stanley cup.” You mean the entire purpose of the game?

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Do the results show exactly that though?

Playoff wins since 2014/2015:
Penguins = 45
Capitals = 44

Regular season wins since 2014/2015:
Penguins = 433
Capitals = 449

Draft picks since 2014/2015:
Penguins = 3x 1st rounders and 10x second rounders
Capitals = 8x 1st rounders and 9x second rounders

Ignoring what happened 15 years ago since it's largely irrelevant to decisions from the last 7-10 years.

In short: The only difference between the Caps and Penguins success-wise has been that extra cup, which everyone knows that those 3 cups from 16-18 all went through the Caps/Pens 2nd round. Caps and Pens have been equally competitive and overall successful since that point. Yet, due to better cap and asset planning, the Capitals are:
1) A better team today
2) A younger team today
3) In a better cap situation today and in the future
4) Have a significantly better prospect pool to help the future outlook of their team

Really has nothing to do with "Pens had more success so it's fine". The Capitals were just better at planning the rebuild.

1. Do the Capitals have a better team today? They made the playoffs because of an anomaly of a season from Lindgren, then lost 4 games.

3. how are they in a better cap situation when they have contracts like Wilson’s and PLD’s?

The most recent Penguins- Capitals era won’t be defined by 2 Cups to 1, which is still a wide margin. It will be defined as 3-1, in line with the Crosby-Ovechkin era.

 

[Kraken Jokes]

Maybe they're working their way into the top of the Gavin McKenna lottery.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sort of funny seeing Dubas mentioned a gazillion times when it's obvious owners don't allow rebuild or as much as to fire the coach. Guess they picked the right guy to be GM since this one is everyone's whipping boy as is.

Nah this is Dubas's MO just look at his time in Toronto he's a short term thinking GM and has been since the second he got to Toronto and still is today need proof?

Signed Tavares

Traded for Muzzin package included 1st round pick

Traded for Foligno, package included 1st round pick

Traded for ROR and Noel Accari package included 1st round pick.

Traded for McCabe and Lafferty, package included 1st and 2nd round pick

Traded Sandin for package that included a 1st, tried to move the 1st, couldn't do it, Easton Cowan looks great.

Traded for Erik Karlsson, package included a 1st

I'm not saying all these are terrible moves, some of them were good moves, but they show a clear pattern, Kyle Dubas is a win now GM, he does not rebuild.

If he acquires draft picks It's ALWAYS with the intent to flip them, he's not always able to do it but he's always trying to flip them.

It's not that ownership doesn't allow rebuilds, Kyle Dubas simply doesn't rebuild.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

It's not that ownership doesn't allow rebuilds, Kyle Dubas simply doesn't rebuild.

When has Dubas been in the position where he was supposed to rebuild before now?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Why in the world is Mike Sullivan still there? It's so strange to me.

This Pittsburgh core in particular has reacted great in the past to new coaches. Sullivan should have been gone 2 years ago, but 100% without fail this off-season.

It's time to bring in a new coach with a new/different vision.

I don't evne think he's a bad coach - I'd love to see Mike Sullivan go to a new team and likely have a lot of success. But it's not working in Pittsburgh anymore and it's beyond time ot move on.

In regards to trades/UFA signings? Sure, they haven't done much, but the biggest move they could do by far is around the coach. And for whatever reason, it isn't happening.

Dubas refuses to fire coaches, Sheldon Keefe should have been fired in 2021 after he blew that 3-1 series lead to Montreal.

But Dubas doesn't have the guts to fire coaches, so Keefe stayed.

And now the same thing is happening in Pittsburgh, doesn't have the guts to fire Sullivan, granted Sullivan has 2 cup rings so that might make it harder.

But Dubas doesn't have the guts to fire Sullivan regardless

 

[pi314]

Not the biggest Dubas fan, but he seems pretty handcuffed having to keep the core 3 + Sullivan. Gotta think Sully’s lost the room at this point. Coaches have a shelf life & he’s way past his with the Pens.

Bringing in Hayes was a head scratcher, goaltending also isn’t the best.

Not the biggest Dubas fan, but he seems pretty handcuffed having to keep the core 3 + Sullivan. Gotta think Sully’s lost the room at this point. Coaches have a shelf life & he’s way past his with the Pens.

I just had deja vu.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Dubas refuses to fire coaches, Sheldon Keefe should have been fired in 2021 after he blew that 3-1 series lead to Montreal.

But Dubas doesn't have the guts to fire coaches, so Keefe stayed.

And now the same thing is happening in Pittsburgh, doesn't have the guts to fire Sullivan, granted Sullivan has 2 cup rings so that might make it harder.

But Dubas doesn't have the guts to fire Sullivan regardless

He is not allowed to fire Sullivan. It has nothing to do with guts.

 

[Davenport]

Hope the Pens never make the playoffs while Cap Master Dubas is in charge.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Hope the Pens never make the playoffs while Cap Master Dubas is in charge.

As long as Sullivan‘s decayed corpse is still around we probably won’t.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He is not allowed to fire Sullivan. It has nothing to do with guts.

He doesn't have the guts regardless of if he's allowed to or not

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Maybe they're working their way into the top of the Gavin McKenna lottery.

Hopefully that's the plan!!! But for that to happen, they must trade Sid and the rest of the core in the next 2 seasons!

 

[Zirakzigil]

He doesn't have the guts regardless of if he's allowed to or not

Wrong. But thanks for coming out.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Wrong. But thanks for coming out.

Not wrong at all He was GM of my team, if you don't have the guts to fire Sheldon Keefe after he blew a 3-1 series lead, you aren't firing coaches

 

[TooManyHumans]

He doesn't have the guts regardless of if he's allowed to or not

No way to know with the Fenway Group being all in on Massachusetts boy Sullivan.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Nah this is Dubas's MO just look at his time in Toronto he's a short term thinking GM and has been since the second he got to Toronto and still is today need proof?

Signed Tavares

Traded for Muzzin package included 1st round pick

Traded for Foligno, package included 1st round pick

Traded for ROR and Noel Accari package included 1st round pick.

Traded for McCabe and Lafferty, package included 1st and 2nd round pick

Traded Sandin for package that included a 1st, tried to move the 1st, couldn't do it, Easton Cowan looks great.

Traded for Erik Karlsson, package included a 1st

I'm not saying all these are terrible moves, some of them were good moves, but they show a clear pattern, Kyle Dubas is a win now GM, he does not rebuild.

If he acquires draft picks It's ALWAYS with the intent to flip them, he's not always able to do it but he's always trying to flip them.

It's not that ownership doesn't allow rebuilds, Kyle Dubas simply doesn't rebuild.

I honestly think Dubas' future is going to be a guy who goes to orgs in a non hockey role and transforms cultures. He seems good at that (updating scouting and analytics to current trends, etc).

But his type of player IDK. We will see how a rebuild goes there I guess

 

[Oleksiak]

I honestly think Dubas' future is going to be a guy who goes to orgs in a non hockey role and transforms cultures. He seems good at that (updating scouting and analytics to current trends, etc).

But his type of player IDK. We will see how a rebuild goes there I guess

That's probably a good fit for him. The Penguins were screwed the minute he decided to be the GM as well instead of hiring someone qualified to make hockey related decisions.

 

[Human]

Guys, you can ask any Pens fan, Dubas is not an issue, when it comes to at least making the playoffs.

The Pens were screwed once they haven’t fired Sullivan back after the Covid playoffs…

 

[Nfumass]

Guys, you can ask any Pens fan, Dubas is not an issue, when it comes to at least making the playoffs.

The Pens were screwed once they haven’t fired Sullivan back after the Covid playoffs

Who brought him back? Dubas did so yes Dubas is an issue

 

[DearDiary]

Who brought him back? Dubas did so yes Dubas is an issue

FSG told Burke to extend Sullivan. Beeston who was in charge of the Penguins purchase and said Sullivan is the best coach in the league, also told Dubas to keep him.

 

[Nfumass]

FSG told Burke to extend Sullivan. Beeston who was in charge of the Penguins purchase and said Sullivan is the best coach in the league, also told Dubas to keep him.

So we have a limp dick GM that has no balls even worse. A good gm wouldn’t of taken the job knowing you have no say over the coach

 

[TK 421]

Nah this is Dubas's MO just look at his time in Toronto he's a short term thinking GM and has been since the second he got to Toronto and still is today need proof?

Signed Tavares

Traded for Muzzin package included 1st round pick

Traded for Foligno, package included 1st round pick

Traded for ROR and Noel Accari package included 1st round pick.

Traded for McCabe and Lafferty, package included 1st and 2nd round pick

Traded Sandin for package that included a 1st, tried to move the 1st, couldn't do it, Easton Cowan looks great.

Traded for Erik Karlsson, package included a 1st

I'm not saying all these are terrible moves, some of them were good moves, but they show a clear pattern, Kyle Dubas is a win now GM, he does not rebuild.

If he acquires draft picks It's ALWAYS with the intent to flip them, he's not always able to do it but he's always trying to flip them.

It's not that ownership doesn't allow rebuilds, Kyle Dubas simply doesn't rebuild.

The Blues return from the ROR/Acciari trade is finally all in and they ended up with Otto Stenberg at 25th in '23, Juraj Pekarcik at 76th in '23 and Lukas Fischer at 56th in '24 along with the pair of players. So a 1st, 2nd and 3rd spanning two drafts to do that deal furthering your point. I listed what the Blues got to illustrate the futures haul for those picks vs the short term gain of ROR/Acciari. No judgement here, Blues just paid their 2nd in '25 to get rid of Kevin Hayes much to my disappointment.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Dubas refuses to fire coaches, Sheldon Keefe should have been fired in 2021 after he blew that 3-1 series lead to Montreal.

But Dubas doesn't have the guts to fire coaches, so Keefe stayed.

And now the same thing is happening in Pittsburgh, doesn't have the guts to fire Sullivan, granted Sullivan has 2 cup rings so that might make it harder.

But Dubas doesn't have the guts to fire Sullivan regardless

Ownership loves/loved Sullivan and wouldn't have hired any GM that did not also love Sullivan.

The entire hockey world is smitten with Sullivan as evidenced by his appointment to coach team USA.

I'm baffled by it too, but I'm not going to demerit Dubas too much when the vast majority of GMs would also ride with Sullivan for some reason.