So... Are the Penguins Even Going to Try?

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Were they now..

Yes.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Yes.

Ok.

 

[SensontheRush]

So asies from Warren "yes I'll make the Pens a SC contender" Foegle what other moves did you want the Pens to make?

Hayes is probably a slight improvement over Carter and they got a 25 second rounder as well and Beauvillier is a good bargain bin pickup maybe he gets his career back on track.

the Pens simply didn't have a lot to work with.

Foegele would fit PIT perfectly, would be great beside Crosby, and brings energy that PIT desperately needs, instead of a walking stiff in Hayes and a bland, more.of the same defender in Grzelcyk. I get though that the Hayes trade is about the 2nd rounder.

If Necas is really on the table, this is the get. Perhaps something around Rakell (with retention) +.

You invest in Necas and then send him off for major returns once the core retires.

 

[dalewood12]

One thing people forget is how Crosby and Malkin have not missed a game the last two years. What are the chances of that happening again given their age? With no 87 and 71, Pens are the Sharks.

 

[ameselare]

The Penguins have never moved up in the draft lottery. The Penguins have always either gotten the pick they'd have gotten without the lottery or fallen in the lottery.

Idk, there's a certain amount of "luck" involved in getting the 1OA pick in multiple drafts involving generational talents. Not every draft has players like that available, the timing has always worked out quite well. Maybe some of it is by design, but I'd argue there's definitely an element of luck to it as well.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Idk, there's a certain amount of "luck" involved in getting the 1OA pick in multiple drafts involving generational talents. Not every draft has players like that available, the timing has always worked out quite well. Maybe some of it is by design, but I'd argue there's definitely an element of luck to it as well.

I'd point out that only the Crosby draft was a lottery pick. In the Lemieux draft, the 1OA pick went to the worst team, and the way the Penguins got that pick was definitely (and famously) by design.

 

[Extra Texture]

Since like 2014, the Pens have only used 4 first round picks. Kapenen in 2014, Poulin in 2019 and 2 kids in 2022 and 2023. They've been trying to win for a long time. That will eventually take its toll on the prospect pipeline unless you get lucky in the draft or a free agent signing. More rare in NHL vs NFL to get round 4 or later guys who are good starters (middle of the lineup guys) for example.

At some point in time, your run ends when you are trying to make moves to get over the final hurdle.

I'm not disputing that at all. That is the price paid for years of success and "going for it" as the Pens did for a decade and a half. We've seen Rutherford, Hextall and Dubas make moves (and mostly mismanage the roster) with desperate attempts to "extend the window"/

The notion I am disputing is this: the Penguins have accepted going from a contender to a lottery team with far too much complacency. They have accepted a step decline without making the most obvious switch that is staring them in the face. When you have a team with that much talent and experience, and they're near the bottom of numerous metrics that clearly speak to a lack of structure and stubborn, square-peg-round-hole coaching, most franchises hit the refresh button and try something new. But oh, not this one.

Pittsburgh's ownership either seems to be in such deep denial that they need a wellness check, or be so in awe/afraid of Sullivan that his position in the org is foundational. Because, 2017 and b2b cups and stuff. But the time to maybe wring one more contender out of this core was probably 2020/21. Its far too late now.

Karlsson already asked out of SJ, and Pit is about the best place he'll find to play. Still not an easy contract to dump. What contender is taking him? What average playoff team is a 34 year old Karlsson away from contending? He's already on that team in Pit.

If Crosby was chasing a Cup, it's a different story. He's got the 3 though. He hasn't made a stink about anything his entire career. He's a UFA after this season. Where would the demand out come from? Maybe if the Pens are a bottom 10 team come the deadline. Even if they're just the 8th seed, he'll stick around.

I fundamentally disagree on your first point. If the Pens offered up EK for trade, and offered dramatic retention or to take money back to facilitate the deal, I think plenty of contenders would put their hat in the ring.

He is what he is: an offensive dynamo that still has lapses, but can break a game wide open. In the first 20 odd games last year, his partnership with Pettersson was statistically phenomenal. Then he was "coached" a little more, moved to a different pair, and his game fell apart for a long stretch. In the right scenario, he would take a contender over the top, IMO.

As far as Sid, I know he's unlikely to leave. I said that more because I feel it would be just desserts for an ownership that has tolerated mediocrity for years. When their captain is still playing at a high level. It would not happen, but it would definitely be very funny if it did.

 

[Extra Texture]

Classic too many cooks situation. Karlsson is an elite playmaker from the point, other elite playmakers can mess things up. Karlsson will break a defense and get the puck to an open player with time. If that player decides hey I should make a play since I have so much time, that wastes the original play.

Yes, but our second unit, with no Karlsson involved, was also a galactic dud that went scoreless most nights. Both units went scoreless for over a month, it wasnt a personnel thing

Todd Rierdon should've quit out of rampant shame for that "coaching". Watching him wave his whiteboard around while Sullivan looked on silently chewing the shit out of some gum, made you think "okay, maybe this is the night these guys finally get it figured out." Only for the team to go out and f*** up the basics, like turning it over on the zone entry, or no-look passing to an empty point. It was truly awe inspiring stuff.

 

[Extra Texture]

Only to acquire a big contract you didnt need..

They saw a chance to move bad money for a premiere player who might've gelled with the core and given the team a shot in the arm.

It didnt work, but I roll the dice on that deal 10 times out of 10, especially if it means you rid yourself of Petry and the anti-poon that was Mikael Granlund's Pens career.

 

[BB88]

Dubas wants to infuse the lineup with youth. What we can expect is a year or two of "meh" with bandaid style signings while they recoup draft picks and add prospects. Then in 3-4 years, there will be a renewed urgency to compete via these new young players with a "mentor" style role from Sid.

Maybe not unlike the Bruins when they traded off roster players like Hamilton and Lucic in order to retool via the draft and young player acquisitions.

They will try but maybe not this year. In the next 1-2, they will "try" at a minimal level amd if they make it to the playoffs, bonus. If not, oh well. The days of a 1st or 2nd for a TDL rental are LONG gone.

Bruins were in a completely different place when they did their retool

If Pens are trying the same it’s doomed to fail& no one will have to think about the Pens for the next 10 years

 

[Turin]

Foegele would fit PIT perfectly, would be great beside Crosby, and brings energy that PIT desperately needs, instead of a walking stiff in Hayes and a bland, more.of the same defender in Grzelcyk. I get though that the Hayes trade is about the 2nd rounder.

If Necas is really on the table, this is the get. Perhaps something around Rakell (with retention) +.

You invest in Necas and then send him off for major returns once the core retires.

I agree Necas could be a good get, but easier said than done. What would Carolina want back from Pittsburgh? The prospects they just gave them for Guentzel?

Foegele is not a LW solution for Crosby, Drew O'Connor played fine there last year after Guentzel was traded and he's cheaper.

 

[karltonian]

Yes, but our second unit, with no Karlsson involved, was also a galactic dud that went scoreless most nights. Both units went scoreless for over a month, it wasnt a personnel thing

Well if you put all your cooks on PP1 ...

 

[Turin]

Well if you put all your cooks on PP1 ...

Todd Reirden's genius adjustment was to use two powerplay units that were split (which never works in the NHL) and it didn't make the powerplay any better.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

As a Penguins fan it's been a wild ride.

Started to be a fan when they drafted Crosby.

They made the playoffs multiple years in a row 4 final appearances and 3 Cup wins.

It was bound to end.
Thing is the way it is ending was not as expected.
Rutherford which he did win us 2! Began to make some questionable trades. Whatever he left and got replaced.
Still had some promising pieces for the future.

Hextall comes in.

Marino and Matheson out for worse players.
Brings in Granlund a pass first and great at passing on the powerplay. Also takes mostly offensive zone draws.
What did Pittsburgh need? A defensive minded player or a goal scorer.

Hextall gets canned.

Dubas trades a 1st and cap dumps for Karlsson trying to fix the errors.
Doesn't work.

Now we here.

Obviously a lot more going on but we lack assets and are guys get a year older every year. We needed to make better moves to extend the window and unfortunately the last GM Hextall really burned us down.

I don't know if any GM would do well with what is left and I have mixed feelings on Dubas but this all just sucks.

Will you stick around for the dark years after Crosby et al retire?

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I don't have a specific opinion on Dubas, but I am getting a budding aneurysm thinking about what some Detroit fans' reactions would've been to signing Karlsson and the severe contrast to what I'm reading here (in a stupid way on Detroit's part).

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

One thing people forget is how Crosby and Malkin have not missed a game the last two years. What are the chances of that happening again given their age? With no 87 and 71, Pens are the Sharks.

Honestly a part of that is the game is a lot softer now which is why. Can't remember the last time either took a cheap shot when that was practically a nightly occurrence in their primes.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Will you stick around for the dark years after Crosby et al retire?

Yes. A lot of history and being a fan almost 20 years has just been incredible.

I do cheer for the Canucks during the bad times or the playoffs. Was a big fan of Luongo.

As long as they do not hire certain people we will be fine.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Especially in comparison to what WSH has done, it's pretty sad to see the Penguins just stand pat. WSH are expected to only have six players remaining from their 2022(!) roster dress for them this upcoming season.

So, now what? Hard to imagine Crosby is too pleased with Dubas sitting on his hands.

I fear the Capitals like a fear the f***ing Amish overthrowing the US government.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Honestly a part of that is the game is a lot softer now which is why. Can't remember the last time either took a cheap shot when that was practically a nightly occurrence in their primes.

Jacob Trouba throwing elbows in the playoffs 2 years ago.

 

[ThePsychicSaw]

Not really his place to blow the team up for futures as long as Crosby and Malkin are there. I think his prerogative is similar to the Caps’ FO: do his best to setup the team for success in the offseason, but be realistic at the TDL about what the team is capable of achieving that year, knowing the team is in desperate need of quality prospects.

Huh? It's like you have no idea what's happened in the last month and ignored the very thread you posted in.

This is exactly WHY the Penguins aren’t doing what Washington is doing. They don’t have the assets to just buy. 5 of their best 10 prospects have been brought into the org within the last 4 months. They are taking a minute to build their farm and draft capital before trying one last time.

Huh?

Isn't that precisely when you do BUY, during free agency? because you don't have draft capital to trade?

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Huh? It's like you have no idea what's happened in the last month and ignored the very thread you posted in.


Huh?

Isn't that precisely when you do BUY, during free agency? because you don't have draft capital to trade?

I think in this case “Buy” has the connotation of acquiring assets via trade.. not literally “buying” free agents

 

[Gurglesons]

There is a weird group of Penguins fans that for some reason have a ton of faith in Dubas.

I really don't get it. He's changed his plan three times in 12 months. He has no idea what he is doing and I honestly would not be surprised if this season ends with Crosby leaving. I'd put it at like 5% of happening, but it just seems like Dubas is throwing his hands up and saying the era is over which is just such lame dick shit for me as a Penguins fan.

I know the chance this team wins a cup is probably 1%, but to just give up while you have Crosby hitting 80-90 pts and Malkin still contributing like a 2C is just insanity.

 

[Cancuks]

They're stuck in no man's land. I think if they're as bad or worse than last season then the inevitable will happen and Crosby will get traded and then the rebuild will begin. I can't see him wanting to stick around and sign another contract to play for nothing year after year. He could really get the rebuild started in a great way as a 50% retained Crosby at the deadline will fetch a bundle of picks and prospects to build around.

 

[PaulD]

Personally, if I'm a Pens fan, I've already seen my team win the cup multiple times. I'd be content now keeping the team relatively competitive until Crosby retires as a Pen

If after trying snd failing to make the play offs back .... where Caps even made.....if this may cany put Sid and the boys inthe play offs ......I hope he moves. Sid deserves play offs, play off deserve him

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Bruins were in a completely different place when they did their retool

If Pens are trying the same it’s doomed to fail& no one will have to think about the Pens for the next 10 years

Agreed, the Bruins were simply the better team, and as such were not really a good comparable for the Penguins.

The problem with the “Dubas was trying to recoup picks” argument you were responding to is that Dubas traded away his first round pick this year. He went all in, and it failed miserably. He then traded away the team’s best asset in Jake Guentzel, and failed to bring back a 1st there too, likely because he insisted on his boy Bunting being a part of the package.

Dubas has floundered in Pittsburgh, and pulled the team in two opposite directions, while failing in both regards.