Smarter hockey player: Crosby vs Datsyuk

[norrisnick]

That's not what I'm getting at.....big difference between puck control and stickhandling.

So what are you getting at? Datsyuk was elite at puck control. That's like all he had to his game. Getting and controlling the puck. Stickhandling is just one way to do so. He never really dangled just of the sake of dangling. There was always a purpose.

 

[Xspyrit]

Why do people seem to associate "high IQ" with just the defensive aspect of the game?

I'm stopping here because I have never said that... Useless discussion when right off the bat there's such a bad misinterpretation. If corrected, I'll gladly discuss

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It's the other way around. Datsyuk would have gotten nowhere if not for his IQ. Probably one of the least physically gifted superstars of all time.
Crosby could have had the IQ of a potato and still been a good player.

This makes no sense....he had some of the best raw skills for an NHL player.

Not sure that's even true. Holding the puck for a really long time was Datsyuk's best ability, while simultaneously deking through an entire team. He was also the best at getting the puck back when he didn't have it.

Idk in terms of dominating individual puck possession, Crosby has him beat to me.

 

[Amazinmets73]

What? Is that a joke?

I'm 100% serious. Datsyuk from 05/06 to 08/09 was as good as Crosby's ever been.

 

[Son Goku]

It's the other way around. Datsyuk would have gotten nowhere if not for his IQ. Probably one of the least physically gifted superstars of all time.
Crosby could have had the IQ of a potato and still been a good player.

Oh yeah cause Crosby is super physically gifted LOL

I'm 100% serious. Datsyuk from 05/06 to 08/09 was as good as Crosby's ever been.

Find a clue. It's not even close. Crosby blows Datsyuk away AINEC.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

There's also a lot more overlap between skill and IQ then this forum would lead you to believe, sometimes people act like they are exclusive of each other.

 

[Amazinmets73]

Oh yeah cause Crosby is super physically gifted LOL


Find a clue. It's not even close. Crosby blows Datsyuk away AINEC.

How so?

 

[Son Goku]

Peak Datsyuk was better than peak Crosby. Assuming we're evaluating them solely on their NHL careers, Crosby is going to play significantly more games, so I suppose we can give him the nod for longevity.

Peak Datsyuk never even hit 100 points. Crosby has what 6 100+ point seasons? 7?

How so?

Google is your friend if you don't understand. Crosby is head and shoulders ahead. You have no argument. Please present proof.

 

[Amazinmets73]

Peak Datsyuk never even hit 100 points. Crosby has what 6 100+ point seasons? 7?


Google is your friend if you don't understand. Crosby is head and shoulders ahead. You have no argument. Please present proof.

Okay, and who was better defensively? Or do you evaluate players solely based on how many points they score.

 

[Amazinmets73]

Peak Datsyuk never even hit 100 points. Crosby has what 6 100+ point seasons? 7?


Google is your friend if you don't understand. Crosby is head and shoulders ahead. You have no argument. Please present proof.

"The advanced statistics on Datsyuk, if you’re trying to quantify his value as a defensive player, are astounding. Stats.hockeyanalysis.com traces shot attempts back to 2007. In the nine years since, Datsyuk’s Shot Attempts Against Per 60 Minutes (SA60) mark of 24.55 tops the list of players who’ve seen at least 5,000 minutes of ice time. His Corsi For Percentage (CF percent) of 58.8 also is No. 1."

Peak Datsyuk never even hit 100 points. Crosby has what 6 100+ point seasons? 7?


Google is your friend if you don't understand. Crosby is head and shoulders ahead. You have no argument. Please present proof.

Advanced stats: Red Wings WOWY charts show impact of sharing the ice with Pavel Datsyuk

WOWY (with or without you) charts and stats show how well or poorly a player is doing with any teammate.

www.mlive.com

 

[BraveCanadian]

Gotta go Crosby on this one.

 

[Mrb1p]

I know Crosby isn't a HF darling and that Datsyuk is maybe the de facto numero uno HF darling but gahdman this thread is downright stupid.

 

[norrisnick]

This makes no sense....he had some of the best raw skills for an NHL player.



Idk in terms of dominating individual puck possession, Crosby has him beat to me.

Hands, yes. Now picture him with Crosby's skating ability.

 

[Son Goku]

Okay, and who was better defensively? Or do you evaluate players solely based on how many points they score.

I evaluate players on a hell of a lot more than advanced defensive statistics have you not noticed how everyone in this thread has pretty much just laughed your argument off? Because it is laughable. The difference between 6-7 100 point seasons and 0 is LAUGHABLE.

 

[Turin]

Crosby. He’s been in the league since he was 18, and is 35 now. And the whole time he’s been an elite number 1 center despite the game changing a ton over that time.

 

[Amazinmets73]

I evaluate players on a hell of a lot more than advanced defensive statistics have you not noticed how everyone in this thread has pretty much just laughed your argument off? Because it is laughable. The difference between 6-7 100 point seasons and 0 is LAUGHABLE.

Well, if we're talking advanced analytics, Datsyuk’s 07/08 season was better than any Crosby has produced. In fact, I think it's better than any player has ever produced since they started recording. I know it was a few years ago, but it's possible McDavid has had a better season since.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

There is no way of measuring this lol

 

[TooManyHumans]

Sweet. My vote was Crosby's 87th.

 

[Toby91ca]

I'm 100% serious. Datsyuk from 05/06 to 08/09 was as good as Crosby's ever been.

Ok, well....I don't know what to say other than no one on the planet, within the hockey world will agree with you.

Well, if we're talking advanced analytics, Datsyuk’s 07/08 season was better than any Crosby has produced. In fact, I think it's better than any player has ever produced since they started recording. I know it was a few years ago, but it's possible McDavid has had a better season since.

And maybe, just maybe though.....advanced statistics aren't exactly bullet proof? Call me a fool if you like.

 

[AvroArrow]

Equal, voted Datsyuk because there is no equal option

 

[AvroArrow]

Crosby, easily

This is not "easily" in favor of any guy. These 2 are probably the two highest IQ centers of the last 20 years. No problem with anyone choosing Crosby or Datsyuk here, but it's extremely close and to be quite honest with you I think this a legitimate 50/50 poll.

 

[surixon]

Why do people seem to associate "high IQ" with just the defensive aspect of the game? Having a high hockey IQ also manifests in the offensive side of the rink, but for some reason folks focus only on what they do away from the puck to argue they were "smarter".

Patrice Bergeron doesn't have a higher hockey IQ than Wayne Gretzky just because his "defensive chart" would blow Gretzky's out of the water.

Agreed, Crosby is the master of what to do with and without the puck in the offensive zone. IQ has everything to do do with knowing what to do with the puck, where to go without it, when to get there etc. Crosby's highlight reel is full of goals and passes based solely on him arriving or putting a puck into a spot at the right time. What I love about watching Crosby live is you can see him think the game 3 steps ahead of everyone else on the ice. His IQ is by far his greatest strength and the reason why he's still able to be elite as his explosiveness and physical ability has diminished as he's aged.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Hands, yes. Now picture him with Crosby's skating ability.

?? Datsyuk was a good skater, he was not hindered by a lack of skating ability in anyway

 

[Amazinmets73]

Ok, well....I don't know what to say other than no one on the planet, within the hockey world will agree with you.


And maybe, just maybe though.....advanced statistics aren't exactly bullet proof? Call me a fool if you like.

Even if they aren't, don't you think that Datsyuk has the most valuable season on record, and is significantly more valuable on a time on ice basis than Crosby counts for something? Even if we don't conclude he's the better player based on that, shouldn't it open the discussion? Or should we laugh it off because Crosby scored more points?

 

[surixon]

Even if they aren't, don't you think that Datsyuk has the most valuable season on record, and is significantly more valuable on a time on ice basis than Crosby counts for something? Even if we don't conclude he's the better player based on that, shouldn't it open the discussion? Or should we laugh it off because Crosby scored more points?

Are you really going to argue that Datayuk's 57.84 xgf 07/08 to 09/10 is a big enough advantage over Crosby's 54.07 to make up for the fact that Crosby scored over half a point more per 60 over that same period?

So really Datayuk controlled chances at a 6% better rate but Crsoby produced at a 25% better rate. In the end actual results trump projected impact.

This isn't even Crosby's peak by the way. You do that and it's even more lopsided.