Smarter hockey player: Crosby vs Datsyuk

[bsu]

Crosby.

 

[Rengorlex]

When those polls were being conducted, Crosby was a snotty kid and most opposing players hated him.

Crosby would win that now, even with McDavid in the league.

Crosby is definitely a smarter player than McDavid. It's a lot closer with Datsyuk IMO.

 

[TopShelfYzerman]

If you've never seen either player and you asked me what Datsyuk was good at, I would recall the many times he made an opponent look dumb with his hands.

If you asked me the same about Crosby, I would say "well, he's a bit of a grinder for a top guy, and his defining trait is probably getting good at things he used to be bad at."

The second one stands out to me as a player that relies on IQ.

Obviously they're both highly skilled and have strong IQ but I would go with Crosby.

Just curious, what was one thing Datsyuk was bad at that he could improve upon.

 

[Mrb1p]

I love it, if this is not an indication that Crosby is still hated around the league and under-appreciated...

Datsyuk is a fantastic hockey player but this is quite dumb. Were talking about the best player of his generation by quite a lengtb even though he played against another top 15, if not 10, player of all time. In that time frame Datsyuk wasnt even top 3.

 

[Machinehead]

Just curious, what was one thing Datsyuk was bad at that he could improve upon.

Probably finishing, both in terms of passing and shooting.

For all the skill Datsyuk had and for literally one of the best possession players ever, Crosby produces about a third of a point more per game which is not a small gap.

I mean, we can talk about role, but that's probably offset by the fact the the Pens front office was low-key ass until like 2016 and put Crosby on bad rosters filled with plugs.

Jiri Hudler would be like the second best winger Crosby played with prior to Guentzel getting called up.

 

[TopShelfYzerman]

Probably finishing, both in terms of passing and shooting.

For all the skill Datsyuk had and for literally one of the best possession players ever, Crosby produces about a third of a point more per game which is not a small gap.

I mean, we can talk about role, but that's probably offset by the fact the the Pens front office was low-key ass until like 2016 and put Crosby on bad rosters filled with plugs.

Jiri Hudler would be like the second best winger Crosby played with prior to Guentzel getting called up.

Wouldnt that play in Crosby favor? He was obviously relied upon more and with PP opportunities.

In Datsyuk's 14 seasons, he had 3,151 PP minutes.

In Crosbys first 14 seasons he had 4,220 PP minutes.

If you had a man advantage while you were on the ice for 18 games, your point totals would be inflated too

 

[Machinehead]

Wouldnt that play in Crosby favor? He was obviously relied upon more and with PP opportunities.

In Datsyuk's 14 seasons, he had 3,151 PP minutes.

In Crosbys first 14 seasons he had 4,220 PP minutes.

If you had a man advantage while you were on the ice for 18 games, your point totals would be inflated too

From 2007-08 through 2010-11 (which, full disclosure, are the four oldest seasons I could grab on EvolvingHockey - I think that's fair to Datsyuk) Crosby outproduces him in every way.

He has more raw even strength points.
He has more even strength points per 60 minutes.
He has more raw points at all strengths.
He has more points per 60 minutes at all strengths.

None of these categories are particularly close.

I mean, you asked if Datsyuk could improve on anything, and when comparing these two players, that's what stands out.

It's not lost on me that they played different roles but the massive offensive chasm between them can't just be role.

IQ is also impossible to definitively measure so a lot of people are going to default to the better player which, you know, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, is Crosby.

 

[Amazinmets73]

Peak Datsyuk was better than peak Crosby. Assuming we're evaluating them solely on their NHL careers, Crosby is going to play significantly more games, so I suppose we can give him the nod for longevity.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Just curious, what was one thing Datsyuk was bad at that he could improve upon.

Scoring goals? Crosby was a much better goal scorer despite not having an elite shot. Because he has such great anticipation of the play around him he was able to find opportunities where the puck would come to him with space close to the net

 

[Toby91ca]

Peak Datsyuk was better than peak Crosby. Assuming we're evaluating them solely on their NHL careers, Crosby is going to play significantly more games, so I suppose we can give him the nod for longevity.

What? Is that a joke?

 

[Toby91ca]

I know a question came up recently about the greatest stickhandler. I always suggest that quite a few guys that make it to the NHL are great stickhandlers, you just don't see it that often because it's not always the most effective way to play. That's what you see a lot in minor hockey, but eventually you mature out of that and move the puck around more, etc. Stickhandling is good in tight spaces sometime, but for the most part, NHL players don't spend a ton of time stickhandling......so when I think of Datsyuk, I think he could have benefited from simplifying his game sometimes.....there are probably loads of highlights with him making some incredible moves, but I'm not sure how much of that actually resulted in goals.

 

[norrisnick]

I know a question came up recently about the greatest stickhandler. I always suggest that quite a few guys that make it to the NHL are great stickhandlers, you just don't see it that often because it's not always the most effective way to play. That's what you see a lot in minor hockey, but eventually you mature out of that and move the puck around more, etc. Stickhandling is good in tight spaces sometime, but for the most part, NHL players don't spend a ton of time stickhandling......so when I think of Datsyuk, I think he could have benefited from simplifying his game sometimes.....there are probably loads of highlights with him making some incredible moves, but I'm not sure how much of that actually resulted in goals.

For me it's almost entirely the opposite. Giving up possession of the puck by chipping it by someone or into an area just to have to fight to regain possession, either by you or a teammate, aggravates the shit out of me. You already had the puck. Do something with it that isn't giving it away. Make a pass or make a play. Don't just chip it somewhere on the hope you get it back.

 

[beowulf]

Would say it was close to even but that is not an option.

 

[LarKing]

I’m okay with Datsyuk losing this to Crosby but I do have to point out that like someone already kinda mentioned, Datsyuk may have been the least physically gifted superstar I can remember. He had constant injuries from being targeted by those much bigger Sharks/Ducks teams year after year in the playoffs. He probably isn’t an nhl player without his IQ and hands. Hell, he was even playing on a cadaver’s tendons near the end of his nhl career and still out producing quite a few of the younger superstars.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Uh, no he wasn't. Datsyuk was the better player.

Even Datsyuk wouldn't agree with that

 

[tabness]

damn this poll shows how much people overrate Crosby

not me though never super impressed

This isn't asking who the better player is lol (even though you'd have some real good players saying it was Datsyuk there as well)

 

[authentic]

Crosby was obviously "better", it's harder to say who might have been smarter. Sid had a better and more robust skillset that allowed him to do more things and hold onto the puck longer for things to open up. Idk if that counts as him being smarter though.

Not sure that's even true. Holding the puck for a really long time was Datsyuk's best ability, while simultaneously deking through an entire team. He was also the best at getting the puck back when he didn't have it.

 

[Xspyrit]

If you vote for Datsyuk you fundamentally do not understand the sport.

I think it's more the other way around...

Of course I'll have to explain this since some are going to get up in arms

Both players have/had Elite IQ but Datsyuk IQ and hands/skill are pretty much the only reasons why he was an elite player.

Crosby on the other hand had a lot of stuff going on for him that made him one of the all-time greats, like incredible leg/lower core strength and skating technique which allowed him to have such great edges work and flawless skating in general

It took a while for Crosby to become good defensively while Datsyuk was pretty much a "galaxy brain IQ" player right away

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think it's more the other way around...

Of course I'll have to explain this since some are going to get up in arms

Both players have/had Elite IQ but Datsyuk IQ and hands/skill are pretty much the only reasons why he was an elite player.

Crosby on the other hand had a lot of stuff going on for him that made him one of the all-time greats, like incredible leg/lower core strength and skating technique which allowed him to have such great edges work and flawless skating in general

It took a while for Crosby to become good defensively while Datsyuk was pretty much a "galaxy brain IQ" player right away

Why do people seem to associate "high IQ" with just the defensive aspect of the game? Having a high hockey IQ also manifests in the offensive side of the rink, but for some reason folks focus only on what they do away from the puck to argue they were "smarter".

Patrice Bergeron doesn't have a higher hockey IQ than Wayne Gretzky just because his "defensive chart" would blow Gretzky's out of the water.

 

[authentic]

Lol no. Crosby is top 5-15 all time. Datsyuk might be top 100.

Lol... Might be top 100??

Based on prime alone he's a lot higher than that.

Datsyuk.

Otherworldly skill as an offensive dynamo yet juggled his offensive acumen with stopping the offense of the opposing team.

Datsyuk was limited to mostly 19-20 mins/gm and played average minutes on the PP. Detroit never relied heavily on star power and that hurts his numbers when compared to other star players.

I wish this was more understood/widely agreed upon. There are many who still claim time on ice and powerplay minutes have nothing to do with how many points you produce in a season.

 

[authentic]

I know a question came up recently about the greatest stickhandler. I always suggest that quite a few guys that make it to the NHL are great stickhandlers, you just don't see it that often because it's not always the most effective way to play. That's what you see a lot in minor hockey, but eventually you mature out of that and move the puck around more, etc. Stickhandling is good in tight spaces sometime, but for the most part, NHL players don't spend a ton of time stickhandling......so when I think of Datsyuk, I think he could have benefited from simplifying his game sometimes.....there are probably loads of highlights with him making some incredible moves, but I'm not sure how much of that actually resulted in goals.

This is a horribly dumb take when it comes to Datsyuk's game.

Scoring goals? Crosby was a much better goal scorer despite not having an elite shot. Because he has such great anticipation of the play around him he was able to find opportunities where the puck would come to him with space close to the net

Saying he didn't have an elite shot is selling him short a bit. His backhand and quick wristers are elite. That's not taking away from how he was able to score in many ways with his anticipation. He also had the physical ability/strength to stand infront of the net without being easily removed.

 

[authentic]

Crosby is definitely a smarter player than McDavid. It's a lot closer with Datsyuk IMO.

I tend to agree but I'm not sure there's much of a gap between the three of them. It's hard to tell really because when a players physical ability stands out so much, especially in the case of Crosby or McDavid who are we to say they aren't utilizing that ability in the best way possible in an NHL game.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Lol... Might be top 100??

Based on prime alone he's a lot higher than that.



I wish this was more understood/widely agreed upon. There are many who still claim time on ice and powerplay minutes have nothing to do with how many points you produce in a season.

HoH had him ranked 128. Obviously that isn't some definitive official ranking, but it's not a bad place to start. Even if we give him a +50 boost that brings him to 78. Even if you want to say he's top 50, which is wrong, the point is he's not close to Crosby.

 

[norrisnick]

Why do people seem to associate "high IQ" with just the defensive aspect of the game? Having a high hockey IQ also manifests in the offensive side of the rink, but for some reason folks focus only on what they do away from the puck to argue they were "smarter".

Patrice Bergeron doesn't have a higher hockey IQ than Wayne Gretzky just because his "defensive chart" would blow Gretzky's out of the water.

They don't, or at least shouldn't. Since we aren't having guys take tests we have to look at everything that can be factored in and them go from there. The best measure of hockey IQ is to take an assessment of the physical tools the players have available to them and then try to assess how much impact those physical tools factor into the players' on ice play.

It does take intelligence to put great physical tools to effective use, but it's also interesting to see players that have no real discernable physical advantage and then try to figure out how or why they can do what they do.

 

[Toby91ca]

For me it's almost entirely the opposite. Giving up possession of the puck by chipping it by someone or into an area just to have to fight to regain possession, either by you or a teammate, aggravates the shit out of me. You already had the puck. Do something with it that isn't giving it away. Make a pass or make a play. Don't just chip it somewhere on the hope you get it back.

That's not what I'm getting at.....big difference between puck control and stickhandling.