Slaf + Mesar vs Demidov + Hage

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Well, let's take Marner has an example shall we.
Marner is a counter-attacker, you know what any good counter-attacker need? A good pass from a D or a mobile center.

What D can do that on the leafs, one, Rielly.
What C can do that on the leafs, zero.

Problem isn't Marner.
Tavares bye bye
Bring a puck moving D.
Enjoy Marner destroying Ds.
Leafs should have been all over Hutson v2.

Well again, I wouldn’t say you’re wrong.
And yes, you have to give their forward corps (sans Tavares) a real shot with a proper blue line at some point before dismantling it.

But even with that all said M&M only winning one round in x amount of years against a team that went to the finals 3 years in a row and had a goalie who couldn’t stop a beach ball can’t help but say a certain amount about those 2.

I take your point in hand when it comes to REAL playoff success. Absolutely. But to only win one round? That’s on those 2. I think you’re right in nuancing the narrative more. But you can’t nuance the blame from them entirely. Neither have elevated their games from what I’ve seen in the post seasons

 

[Garbageyuk]

Why you think so

Not every prospect is going to make it. In fact, even with 1st rounders, most don’t, especially late first rounders. Mesar is a worse prospect than Charles Hudon was at the same age. He hasn’t improved at all since being drafted. He’s a small, soft perimeter “offensive forward” who barely mustered 1.0p/gp in the OHL as a 20 year old. He got outscored by defensive D that are 2 years younger playing in the same league.

 

[Bombshell11]

Not every prospect is going to make it. In fact, even with 1st rounders, most don’t, especially late first rounders.

This is not an argument, this sounds more like whining for the purpose of whining.

Mesar is a worse prospect than Charles Hudon was at the same age.

Hudon was drafted #122 overall, played in the Q in a different era... in the playoffs he was a PPG vs Mesar 1.6 PPG who also played vs London, who did Hudon play against?... in the WJC Mesar was one of the leader on his team and best producer.... Where was Hudon?

He hasn’t improved at all since being drafted.

Says who? he started the season with 2 PPG, nearly 20 games straight.

The only thing you can say against him is that his North American teammates don't like him as much as his compatriots do. Just look at all the top Slovakian players they all love Mesar. I care more about what his Slovakian friends have to say than Francesco "no body" Pinelli or Rehkopf... those guys are going to be bottom 6 / AHLers...

Just look who Mesar is actually friends with... Slaf (NHLer 60 mil contract), Nemec (16 mil contract) and the list goes on....

He’s a small, soft perimeter “offensive forward”

You can literally say the same thing about Demidov.

He got outscored by defensive D that are 2 years younger playing in the same league.

Who are you talking about? Jakub Fibigr ?
Which Defensive D, 2 years younger, outscored Mesar in the OHL?


You have no clue man, sorry to say but all your arguments are baseless of reality and uneducated.

 

[jaffy27]

I went for Slaf Mesar because we know what we got with Slaf and it’s beautiful, but the potential goes to Demidov/Hage.

Slaf/Demidov is sort of a wash , both bring high end offensive play in a different dynamic because of size vs dangles but Hage, I read about this guy and my eyes go

Mesar imo will still be a good player but Hage , man, think we have a special player there

 

[Garbageyuk]

This is not an argument, this sounds more like whining for the purpose of whining.


Hudon was drafted #122 overall, played in the Q in a different era... in the playoffs he was a PPG vs Mesar 1.6 PPG who also played vs London, who did Hudon play against?... in the WJC Mesar was one of the leader on his team and best producer.... Where was Hudon?


Says who? he started the season with 2 PPG, nearly 20 games straight.

The only thing you can say against him is that his North American teammates don't like him as much as his compatriots do. Just look at all the top Slovakian players they all love Mesar. I care more about what his Slovakian friends have to say than Francesco "no body" Pinelli or Rehkopf... those guys are going to be bottom 6 / AHLers...

Just look who Mesar is actually friends with... Slaf (NHLer 60 mil contract), Nemec (16 mil contract) and the list goes on....



You can literally say the same thing about Demidov.



Who are you talking about? Jakub Fibigr ?
Which Defensive D, 2 years younger, outscored Mesar in the OHL?


You have no clue man, sorry to say but all your arguments are baseless of reality and uneducated.

Says the guy writing the huge multi-paragraph post complaining about someone else’s opinion. I’m not the one who’s upset, you are. Tell me again who’s the one whining.

I’ll reiterate; not all our prospects are going to make it - most won’t. That’s not “whining for the purpose of whining”, that’s just reality and the way it works. I’m sorry that seems to upset you, but it’s facts.

 

[themilosh]

Guys have to remain realistic with prospects... when you draft a player like Mesar (5'10" 168lbs) he's either boom or bust. Unlike Hage (6'1" 190lbs).
In Mesar's case he is an under sized 1st rounder and therefore will be graded on his top 6 capabilities. He fails miserably at proving himself a top 6 prospect. Personally I've never understood the reasoning behind selecting small wingers in the 1st round, as they simply have too many hurdles to climb. It's a wasted pick..
And hopefully Hugo learned their lesson quickly.. the Habs are chalked full of small wingers/players... if we draft a player sub 6'0" they better be outworldly a player, otherwise they bring absolutely nothing to our lineup.
Hage by comparison (relative to Mesar) has the ability to be a middle 6, with some luck he becomes a 2C, or a legit 3C.. these are rhe types of players we need to draft.

 

[themilosh]

This is not an argument, this sounds more like whining for the purpose of whining.


Hudon was drafted #122 overall, played in the Q in a different era... in the playoffs he was a PPG vs Mesar 1.6 PPG who also played vs London, who did Hudon play against?... in the WJC Mesar was one of the leader on his team and best producer.... Where was Hudon?


Says who? he started the season with 2 PPG, nearly 20 games straight.

The only thing you can say against him is that his North American teammates don't like him as much as his compatriots do. Just look at all the top Slovakian players they all love Mesar. I care more about what his Slovakian friends have to say than Francesco "no body" Pinelli or Rehkopf... those guys are going to be bottom 6 / AHLers...

Just look who Mesar is actually friends with... Slaf (NHLer 60 mil contract), Nemec (16 mil contract) and the list goes on....



You can literally say the same thing about Demidov.



Who are you talking about? Jakub Fibigr ?
Which Defensive D, 2 years younger, outscored Mesar in the OHL?


You have no clue man, sorry to say but all your arguments are baseless of reality and uneducated.

Anybody mentioning the likes of Hudon or RHP, Mesar as draft capabilities completely miss the point of building a contender.. who cares if a player can play 200gms in the NHL? We as fans should expect more than this. Plugging ANY lineup with 4th liner professionals is about the EASIEST thing to do as a GM.
Why on earth would we draft players who's ceiling is 4th line energy dude? Why? What a waste of a roster spot..

Rather, id draft ONLY players who's ceiling is top 6 F or top 4 D, and if they hit = Bonus, if they don't = goodbye.

Laval should be chalked full of prospects actively vying to outdo their teammates for Offensive production.. plain and simple.. each prospect has one goal: make the CH top 6.. if they don't have it, then they need to admit and reinvent what they are to become..
Our 3rd line should be made up of legit top 6ers who realize, they simply arent "good enough" to be a top 6, so they have reinvented themselves into an incredibly useful 3rd liner on the big club.

 

[themilosh]

a simple rule of NOT drafting small soft players in the 1st round would have yielded Kulich, Lambert or Lamoureaux. So easy.

Not saying these guys will hit, but geez they have a much better chance than soffty Mesar.. maybe he was drafted to provide help for Slaf, and thats possible, and if so hes done his job.. otherwise ive never seen a more useless pick in the 1st round.. complete throw away.. where on earth does he fit in?

 

[Bombshell11]

a simple rule of NOT drafting small soft players in the 1st round would have yielded Kulich, Lambert or Lamoureaux. So easy.

Not saying these guys will hit, but geez they have a much better chance than soffty Mesar.. maybe he was drafted to provide help for Slaf, and thats possible, and if so hes done his job.. otherwise ive never seen a more useless pick in the 1st round.. complete throw away.. where on earth does he fit in?

Alot of players in the top 50 of pts are listed as 6.0 and under. I counted 6 players who were 5.10 and and another 5-6 x 5.11 and i noticed many 6.0 and 6.1

1 player was 6.7, 1-2 x 6.4 and a few 6.3 and 6.2

The top 20 mostly had 6.0 and under. McDavid is 6.1... not exactly a giant. the difference between 5.10 and 6.1 is 7 cm....

Smaller players have lower center of gravity and can handle the puck better

Taller players take longer to develop...

 

[Bombshell11]

Says the guy writing the huge multi-paragraph post complaining about someone else’s opinion. I’m not the one who’s upset, you are. Tell me again who’s the one whining.

I’ll reiterate; not all our prospects are going to make it - most won’t. That’s not “whining for the purpose of whining”, that’s just reality and the way it works. I’m sorry that seems to upset you, but it’s facts.

Yeah thanks for proving my point, you have no other interest other than taking a dump at Mesar.

 

[Garbageyuk]

a simple rule of NOT drafting small soft players in the 1st round would have yielded Kulich, Lambert or Lamoureaux. So easy.

Not saying these guys will hit, but geez they have a much better chance than soffty Mesar.. maybe he was drafted to provide help for Slaf, and thats possible, and if so hes done his job.. otherwise ive never seen a more useless pick in the 1st round.. complete throw away.. where on earth does he fit in?

This. Even if they were hellbent on going with a small skill player, Mesar was the wrong choice. Jagger Firkus was on the board, and he had superior numbers. Now he’s coming off a 2.0p/gp season in the WHL. Compare that to Mesar’s season. And this isn’t hindsight either, many people on here were screaming for them to select Firkus there. He was the obvious pick and it only looks more so now. Mesar was a terrible pick from the jump.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

a simple rule of NOT drafting small soft players in the 1st round would have yielded Kulich, Lambert or Lamoureaux. So easy.

Not saying these guys will hit, but geez they have a much better chance than soffty Mesar.. maybe he was drafted to provide help for Slaf, and thats possible, and if so hes done his job.. otherwise ive never seen a more useless pick in the 1st round.. complete throw away.. where on earth does he fit in?

And Kulich, Lambert and Lamoreaux are all nothing at this point,

 

[themilosh]

Alot of players in the top 50 of pts are listed as 6.0 and under. I counted 6 players who were 5.10 and and another 5-6 x 5.11 and i noticed many 6.0 and 6.1

1 player was 6.7, 1-2 x 6.4 and a few 6.3 and 6.2

The top 20 mostly had 6.0 and under. McDavid is 6.1... not exactly a giant. the difference between 5.10 and 6.1 is 7 cm....

Smaller players have lower center of gravity and can handle the puck better

Taller players take longer to develop...

No issue with me.. reality is this league requires size for success.. i know there are a lot of armchair GMs who claim size isn't an issue, but they're dead wrong. Any player less than 6'0" must have outer worldly skills otherwise they are useless.. stings no doubt, but it's the truth.
It's high time we acknowledge this statistic as fact and stop wasting picks on sub 6' projects.

And Kulich, Lambert and Lamoreaux are all nothing at this point,

Still would rather them in our system than Mesar..

 

[CHwest]

Slaf was a project, Demidov can be a 100+ player so Demidov, no questions asked.

Hage is a 21st so on paper hes got the edge... best to wait and see him at camp. Mesar was the best rookie at camp 2 years ago, will Hage be the best this year ?

Mesar is a high end skilled offensive player
Hage is more effective and his trajectory to the NHL is more linear

but its ridiculous to ask this question becauase by the time Hage is ready Mesar will either be on the 1st line with Slaf and Demidov or playing for another team racking up pts...

Probably somewhere in Europe.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I think Slaf and Demidov are both top tier talents with different strengths but I like Hage a lot more than I do Mesar...easy choice for me as Hage is clearly the better prospect imo.

Mesar may very well become a good NHLer but I don't necessarily see it happening in Montreal nor do I see it happening on a good team. He feels like the type of player who may end up putting up points on bad teams where he gets ice time that he would not get on a good team.Hopefully he proves me wrong and his development takes off this season.

 

[SOLR]

Guys have to remain realistic with prospects... when you draft a player like Mesar (5'10" 168lbs) he's either boom or bust. Unlike Hage (6'1" 190lbs).
In Mesar's case he is an under sized 1st rounder and therefore will be graded on his top 6 capabilities. He fails miserably at proving himself a top 6 prospect. Personally I've never understood the reasoning behind selecting small wingers in the 1st round, as they simply have too many hurdles to climb. It's a wasted pick..
And hopefully Hugo learned their lesson quickly.. the Habs are chalked full of small wingers/players... if we draft a player sub 6'0" they better be outworldly a player, otherwise they bring absolutely nothing to our lineup.
Hage by comparison (relative to Mesar) has the ability to be a middle 6, with some luck he becomes a 2C, or a legit 3C.. these are rhe types of players we need to draft.

No that's not true at all - Mesar was never a boom or bust player, that's not what this means lol.
A boom or bust player is a player like McCarron, someone who has the physical attributes but you wonder if they will learn the game. Mesar is a good IQ tweener, of course he could boom or bust (like every prospect), but his cone of probabilities was always more from middle-6 nhl forward to elite AHL player around the age of 25. That's not boom or bust as a likely outcome, it's a narrow cone of outcomes, with a relatively high floor and a good ceiling.

Some prospects just take more time, we are not at the junction where bust and Mesar are something to talk about together. Also Mesar is NOT a top 6 limited player, he's a possession guy thus could very well play bottom 6 like Lekhonen did for many years for us before turning the corner on his intensity and becoming a top 6 grind guy.

Ylonen is the perfect example of the kind of path Mesar could have. Hopefully he does better than Ylonen.

I was never in love with Mesar, but this thread is filled with irrational statements.

 

[Bombshell11]

No that's not true at all - Mesar was never a boom or bust player, that's not what this means lol.
A boom or bust player is a player like McCarron, someone who has the physical attributes but you wonder if they will learn the game. Mesar is a good IQ tweener, of course he could boom or bust (like every prospect), but his cone of probabilities was always more from middle-6 nhl forward to elite AHL player around the age of 25. That's not boom or bust as a likely outcome, it's a narrow cone of outcomes, with a relatively high floor and a good ceiling.

Some prospects just take more time, we are not at the junction where bust and Mesar are something to talk about together. Also Mesar is NOT a top 6 limited player, he's a possession guy thus could very well play bottom 6 like Lekhonen did for many years for us before turning the corner on his intensity and becoming a top 6 grind guy.

Ylonen is the perfect example of the kind of path Mesar could have. Hopefully he does better than Ylonen.

I was never in love with Mesar, but this thread is filled with irrational statements.

The very problem of people here complaining about Mesar is that from the get go they never studied the guy, never watched him and made arguments solely on gut feeling

Its very easy to get upset at something when you have no background story... no one knew him before the draft.

@Garbageyuk is a perfect example, argues and whines with zero substance, only using OHL stats to then build a narrative off that.

 

[zzoo]

If we compare only the first 2 draftees of 2022 vs 2024, then 2024 draftees win easily.

If we include the next two players, then thing might change:
Slaf, Mesar, Beck and Hutson >> Demidov, Hage, Koivu and Sawyer.

But this comparison isn't fair because Koivu and Sawyer are drafted in the 3rd round while Beck and Hutson are in 2nd round.

2022 draft > 2024 draft >>> 2023 draft. Be reminded that a goalie is very unpredictable; a goalie can go from hero to zero or vice-versa in few months.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I don’t think it’s hate to acknowledge that he isn’t very good

He seems to be doing fine so you’ve proven his point by making your statement

 

[Bombshell11]

If we compare only the first 2 draftees of 2022 vs 2024, then 2024 draftees win easily.

If we include the next two players, then thing might change:
Slaf, Mesar, Beck and Hutson >> Demidov, Hage, Koivu and Sawyer.

But this comparison isn't fair because Koivu and Sawyer are drafted in the 3rd round while Beck and Hutson are in 2nd round.

2022 draft > 2024 draft >>> 2023 draft. Be reminded that a goalie is very unpredictable; a goalie can go from hero to zero or vice-versa in few months.

Dont forget that Hage's cost was the 26th + 57th+ 198th

So Essentially the question should be:

Slaf + Mesar + Hutson + Tourigny
vs
Demidov + Hage

 

[junyab]

Says the guy writing the huge multi-paragraph post complaining about someone else’s opinion. I’m not the one who’s upset, you are. Tell me again who’s the one whining.

I’ll reiterate; not all our prospects are going to make it - most won’t. That’s not “whining for the purpose of whining”, that’s just reality and the way it works. I’m sorry that seems to upset you, but it’s facts.

I'm a Kitchener Rangers season ticket holder and I can say, with confidence, you aren't speaking from an informative seat when it comes to Mesar, although your comment about 1st rounder success rate is accurate.

 

[Kennerback]

I'm a Kitchener Rangers season ticket holder and I can say, with confidence, you aren't speaking from an informative seat when it comes to Mesar, although your comment about 1st rounder success rate is accurate.

How good is Mesar ? You’ve surely had the most in-person views of him.

 

[junyab]

How good is Mesar ? You’ve surely had the most in-person views of him.

Mesar is very good. Quick, great hockey IQ, nice hands. But a softer player, although he's still able to play his game through physical opposition. I think he'd need the right role and linemates to be effective. I have him being a PPG game player in the AHL or could mirror 2013, 2014 David Desharnais NHL success in the right situation.

 

[Kennerback]

Mesar is very good. Quick, great hockey IQ, nice hands. But a softer player, although he's still able to play his game through physical opposition. I think he'd need the right role and linemates to be effective. I have him being a PPG game player in the AHL or could mirror 2013, 2014 David Desharnais NHL success in the right situation.

Your saying his stats aren’t reflective of how good he is?

 

[junyab]

Your saying his stats aren’t reflective of how good he is?

The Rangers 2022-23 season was a complete sh-- show. There were bench problems, dressing room problems, management problems. Mesar was timid and took longer to adapt to the new country, language and ice. In 2023-24 all of the drama with the Rangers was over, he had fully adapted, and found success playing with Carson Rehkopf.

So, I would definitely not just take his point totals and create an assessment of it.