Confirmed with Link: Skinner traded to Buffalo for 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and prospect

[Yatzhee]

Buffalo is not a good team. The 2019 2nd will be high. There shouldn't be a huge difference between say Pittsburgh's 1st and that pick.

Still, I'm a disappointed fan. I would have been willing to forgo that type of return for the 1 year of Skinner. It's time to move on from asset accumulation mode. I guess the FO disagrees.

Buffalo fan here. In case you haven't noticed, Buffalo is getting extremely better, and rather quickly, all while addressing the future.
While your opinion is that they are not a good team, Jack Eichel, Samson Reinhart, Rasmus Ristolainen, Rasmus Dahlin, Connor Sheary, Jeff Skinner, Berglund, Girgensons, Larsson, Rodriguez, Baptiste, Hutton and Ullmark between the pipes and a host of depth in the system says otherwise.

Buffalo will most likely make the playoffs this season.

 

[Canes]

I'm a huge Skinner fan, but even I have to admit Skinner was really bad defensively, especially in his own end. There were way too many goals against this team because Skinner didn't cover his man in the defensive zone for whatever reason. With that said, I still think 30 goal scorers have good value in the league no matter how bad defensively they are. It's just unfortunate that he was a UFA to be and had a NTC.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Again can I actually get any concrete data or examples? He covered the point just fine and provided an INSANE amount of takeaways....again this is a subjective statement.

I watched his entire career as an STH. Take my opinion or don’t.

I mean I get the point you’re trying to make, but you can’t look at an offseason that way. This offseason, we’ve offloaded Skinner and added Svechnikov. We haven’t played any games in between.

(And many seem to think Svech might be good to fully replace Skinner’s 24 goals from last year.)

Like, if we trade Faulk, and you said “who’s replacing Faulk” and I said “Hamilton”, I think that’d be just as fair.

But losing Skinner/Faulk is not a function of acquiring Svech/Hamilton.

If we traded Faulk for futures, we’d be fully justified in asking how the hell we’re supposed to replace that spot in our lineup.

 

[Svechhammer]

Eric Staal was traded under nearly identical circumstances 2 years ago and 40 goals last season.

lol now we're using the Erik Staal trade as reason to hate this one. Right after we just pulled off the Dougie Hamilton trade?

Yeah, no... Staal needed to go. Same reasons as Skinner. We were spinning tires with both, and neither figured into our long term plans. Didn't matter the return, the organization needed a change.

 

[bobc222]

I watched his entire career as an STH. Take my opinion or don’t.

Same here, now I can see what people are saying that oh he got knocked off the puck easily at times or he would try to spin around in the offensive zone and fail. That's perfectly fair, but this narrative that Skinner is some defensive travesty doesn't seem to be backed up by facts. I'm not claiming he's Bergeron, but 2nd most takeaways in the league is...well it's enviable.

 

[Canes]

Buffalo fan here. In case you haven't noticed, Buffalo is getting extremely better, and rather quickly, all while addressing the future.
While your opinion is that they are not a good team, Jack Eichel, Samson Reinhart, Rasmus Ristolainen, Rasmus Dahlin, Connor Sheary, Jeff Skinner, Berglund, Girgensons, Larsson, Rodriguez, Baptiste, Hutton and Ullmark between the pipes and a host of depth in the system says otherwise.

Buffalo will most likely make the playoffs this season.

You just had your own version of the Skinner trade with ROR (and ROR is a much more complete, well rounded player).

And I would be really surprised to see Buffalo make the playoffs. The Northeast is still really good, and the Metro will probably have 4-5 teams make the playoffs.

Every team in the league has players like most of the ones you listed except for Eichel and Dahlin, so that list is not really that impressive.

But Colorado made the playoffs last year after their dreadful season prior, so who really knows what will happen.

 

[Chan790]

Buffalo will most likely make the playoffs this season.

Don't say that. Literally, the one thing keeping some of us from jumping off a cliff is the hope that pick is top-35 and essentially a 1st.

 

[Primetime8]

Cole: We let Skinner get away with a lot of flaws :: WRALSportsFan.com

Had to know the return would suck when you're out there saying this about about your own player..

 

[tarheelhockey]

I remember a time when we had absolutely zero organizational depth after JR left and Francis went down the path of drafting and developing. Is that what you are referring to?

And are you comparing that to this trade right now? Are you really being serious with that right now?

I’m saying that this rationale for dumping talent for futures (=saving $) was a card the GM could play and get away with it in 2013. It’s 2018. The rebuild is supposed to be over and we’re still making going-into-rebuild moves.

 

[Svechhammer]

Buffalo fan here. In case you haven't noticed, Buffalo is getting extremely better, and rather quickly, all while addressing the future.
While your opinion is that they are not a good team, Jack Eichel, Samson Reinhart, Rasmus Ristolainen, Rasmus Dahlin, Connor Sheary, Jeff Skinner, Berglund, Girgensons, Larsson, Rodriguez, Baptiste, Hutton and Ullmark between the pipes and a host of depth in the system says otherwise.

Buffalo will most likely make the playoffs this season.

Playoffs for Buffalo? lol, nah to way that is happening. By the way, good luck with Skinner's defense on your defensively inept lineup. Should be a sight to see.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

Great. What does that mean to me?

Like I said, either he was a bad locker room guy or, if this is the return, you start the season with him and try for more at the deadline, or let him contribute to a playoff push. This **** isn't difficult.

He was never going to contribute to a play-off push. It just isn't in his DNA

Maybe Brindy said "Look Don, this guy doesn't play the game the right way and I don't want my young players around that type of guy"

And if that was the reason to ditch him and they feel it's better for the organization long term (a culture change), then I'm cool with it!

 

[tarheelhockey]

lol now we're using the Erik Staal trade as reason to hate this one. Right after we just pulled off the Dougie Hamilton trade?

Yeah, no... Staal needed to go. Same reasons as Skinner. We were spinning tires with both, and neither figured into our long term plans. Didn't matter the return, the organization needed a change.

You asked when something like this has happened. I gave you an example of something nearly identical that happened 2 years ago and has turned out badly. You agree that it was nearly identical. We’re on the same page.

 

[Brock Anton]

Buffalo gonna make the playoffs. That’s a f***ing good one.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I have watched Skinner a lot the past few years thinking the same thing, “boy he is really good but when I watch him he looks really bad.” I tired of watching him cross the blueline on the left side only to bury his head and fire a slap shot into the goalie’s chest for no reason. I watched him unable to receive a simple pass in the neutral zone. Unable to find a linemate’s tape.

The guy is a 1 on 5 hockey player, and great at it. Unfortunately the game is played 5 on 5. We always talk about how he never had linemates - we never talked about how when we gave him linemates, he got the exact same results. Because if you’re not going to use them, doesn’t matter if it’s Eric Staal or Derek Ryan.

I’m not ready to call him a “bad” hockey player. I think he’s a goal scorer, and goal scorers are valuable simply because they produce offense. But stats are getting better, we have to get more sophisticated than counting stats. And I wonder if Tulsky did just that.


I’m still disappointed in the return. Reading on Twitter somewhere that he was very restrictive with his NTC, and may have even vetoed a trade to LA at the draft. Regardless, the guy is 1 season removed from 37 goals, and this is the best we could do. Reminds me of the Staal return.

That said, this moves our offseason grade from an A to a B+ or B. In the grand scheme of things I like our offseason. I’m pissed about this, but in context I’m still excited in general.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Buffalo fan here. In case you haven't noticed, Buffalo is getting extremely better, and rather quickly, all while addressing the future.
While your opinion is that they are not a good team, Jack Eichel, Samson Reinhart, Rasmus Ristolainen, Rasmus Dahlin, Connor Sheary, Jeff Skinner, Berglund, Girgensons, Larsson, Rodriguez, Baptiste, Hutton and Ullmark between the pipes and a host of depth in the system says otherwise.

Buffalo will most likely make the playoffs this season.

Sarcasm?

There are 4 superior teams in the Atlantic alone (Toronto, Boston, Tampa, Florida.) In the Metropolitan division, Pittsburgh, Washington, Columbus and Philadelphia are clearly ahead as well. At best, Buffalo is on the outside looking in with the Devils, Canes, Islanders and Rangers.

I’m not dismissing Buffalo to make myself feel better about the trade. The East is just a very competitive conference.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

If we traded Faulk for futures, we’d be fully justified in asking how the hell we’re supposed to replace that spot in our lineup.

You’ve lost me here. TVR? Hamilton? There isn’t a spot in the lineup, that’s why we’ve awkwardly got him pencilled in on the 3rd line right now and one of Fleury/TVR in the pressbox. This offseason we lost Hanifin and added Hamilton and de Haan. We’ve “netted” a defenseman, so we could trade Faulk for futures and not worry about “filling a spot.” Am I missing something?

 

[Svechhammer]

Same here, now I can see what people are saying that oh he got knocked off the puck easily at times or he would try to spin around in the offensive zone and fail. That's perfectly fair, but this narrative that Skinner is some defensive travesty doesn't seem to be backed up by facts. I'm not claiming he's Bergeron, but 2nd most takeaways in the league is...well it's enviable.

He had 49 points on the season, and still ended up Dead f***ing Last in +/- on the team with -27 on the season. That means, he was on the ice for 76 goals against. Nobody else on the team was on the ice for more than 60 (outside of goalies, of course). The only others who came close to his bad +/- was Hanifin at -20 and Faulk with -26, but they were only on the ice for about 50-55 goals each.

You don't put up shit numbers like that and then claim he's some defensive standout. Nah, he sucks at that aspect of the game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Same here, now I can see what people are saying that oh he got knocked off the puck easily at times or he would try to spin around in the offensive zone and fail. That's perfectly fair, but this narrative that Skinner is some defensive travesty doesn't seem to be backed up by facts. I'm not claiming he's Bergeron, but 2nd most takeaways in the league is...well it's enviable.

What facts? Takeaways?

How about the fact that Skinner was the most sheltered forward on the Canes roster, both in quality of competition and ozone starts? How about the fact that he had the worst GA/60 of any Canes forward, while being the most sheltered? Or that he had the 2nd most give aways among forwards, while facing the easiest competition.

Maybe it's because he lost interest. Maybe it's because he tuned out Bill Peters. Maybe it's because he was tired of losing. Who knows, but there is plenty of data and plenty of "eye test" to say that he was bad defensively.

Tarheel is right and even being generous (IMO) in describing Skinner defensively.

 

[bobc222]

He had 49 points on the season, and still ended up Dead ****ing Last in +/- on the team with -27 on the season. That means, he was on the ice for 77 goals against. Nobody else on the team was on the ice for more than 60 (outside of goalies, of course). The only others who came close to his bad +/- was Hanifin at -20 and Faulk with -26, but they were only on the ice for about 50-55 goals each.

You don't put up **** numbers like that and then claim he's some defensive standout. Nah, he sucks at that aspect of the game.

Wingers have 1 job. Cover the point. Now we can look up how many D-Men on his side scored while he was on the ice. I've tried to post these stats so many times. The number is very low. They got scored on because Ryan was playing center, and Darling was in net. Please find me a clip where he fails or makes no effort to cover his D-Man.

 

[Canes]

I have watched Skinner a lot the past few years thinking the same thing, “boy he is really good but when I watch him he looks really bad.” I tired of watching him cross the blueline on the left side only to bury his head and fire a slap shot into the goalie’s chest for no reason. I watched him unable to receive a simple pass in the neutral zone. Unable to find a linemate’s tape.

The guy is a 1 on 5 hockey player, and great at it. Unfortunately the game is played 5 on 5. We always talk about how he never had linemates - we never talked about how when we gave him linemates, he got the exact same results. Because if you’re not going to use them, doesn’t matter if it’s Eric Staal or Derek Ryan.

I’m not ready to call him a “bad” hockey player. I think he’s a goal scorer, and goal scorers are valuable simply because they produce offense. But stats are getting better, we have to get more sophisticated than counting stats. And I wonder if Tulsky did just that.


I’m still disappointed in the return. Reading on Twitter somewhere that he was very restrictive with his NTC, and may have even vetoed a trade to LA at the draft. Regardless, the guy is 1 season removed from 37 goals, and this is the best we could do. Reminds me of the Staal return.

That said, this moves our offseason grade from an A to a B+ or B. In the grand scheme of things I like our offseason. I’m pissed about this, but in context I’m still excited in general.

Pretty much all that needs to be said, I think. As much as I am disappointed to see Skinner go, there's still a lot to be excited about in the future of the team. And that's as someone who is still kinda skeptical about some things with the franchise.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I’m saying that this rationale for dumping talent for futures (=saving $) was a card the GM could play and get away with it in 2013. It’s 2018. The rebuild is supposed to be over and we’re still making going-into-rebuild moves.

Fair enough. I just think that when you have a guy that is basically a rental (which is what Skinner is), a pick/prospects is an expected return. I don't think we were ever getting roster players for him

 

[BHD]

"Hey, Dre! We're gonna need ya to score 65 goals this season."

(big pat on the back)

"OK, Mr. Dundon."

(sheepish smile)

 

[The Faulker 27]

Well anywho, Pu actually seems, and looks legit. I'm pretty excited about him.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You’ve lost me here. TVR? Hamilton? There isn’t a spot in the lineup, that’s why we’ve awkwardly got him pencilled in on the 3rd line right now and one of Fleury/TVR in the pressbox. This offseason we lost Hanifin and added Hamilton and de Haan. We’ve “netted” a defenseman, so we could trade Faulk for futures and not worry about “filling a spot.” Am I missing something?

I mean yes, Faulk is an “extra” but we literally have to add someone to the roster if/when we trade him. If that’s McKeown or Bean as the 7th guy, then they are the answer to the question.

Who’s the answer here? Who is replacing Skinner as a top-9 LW and who is being added at the bottom of the roster to fill the gap?

 

[A Star is Burns]

It's not like questioning Skinner's defense is new with this trade, or even this year. It's been questioned for much of his career. It's not something that's traced only to Darling and Ryan. He's had other linemates and not performed well defensively.