Post-Game Talk: Skinned again

[Shanahanigans]

I mean the stat line people are fawning over for Foegele this year, 6 goals in 20 games is actually less than the 6 in 18 Arvidsson had a year ago, lol and that was a "down" year for him.

Foegele had kind of a shit playoffs too, 3 goals in 4 full playoff rounds kinda sucks, Kostin and Bjugstad the year prior each had 3 goals in just 2 rounds.

Healthier sure I'll give you that.

I don't know, I just think the team that made it to game 7 of the cup final made a whole host of bad decisions that weren't entirely cap related. We turned over our entire middle 6 basically except Draisaitl. And every time we chose older, slower, less productive free agents over homegrown young talent. I think last year was a slow start, I legit don't think we're that good this year. Mcdrai aside, and you can expect Hyman to pick it up- otherwise the offense is looking like Chia's last couple years here. And the thing that pisses me off most is, they're so vanilla. Nobody on this team has a pulse of emotion.

I will say this until I'm red in the face- losing Mcleod, Foegele, Holloway and Broberg in one offseason was a colossal mistake by this franchise. They were all basically homegrown depth players with speed and talent who generally won their minutes. We have to retool to find talent like that again.

 

[Soundwave]

Everyone knew our biggest weakness was goaltending and defense and Jackson goes out and signs 3 aging/injury prone forwards while letting 3 of our youngest (25, 23, 23) and fastest players go. Emberson, Dermott, Brown pickups all looking varying degrees of awful. Absolutely nothing done to address league worst goaltending. Offseason started with so much hope but what an abject failure.

The weaknesses were goaltending and wingers that could finish setups.

The D has been largely fine since Knoblaugh got here, bizarre PK this year notwithstanding. This was a bad defensive effort but it happens.

 

[guymez]

Not sure why but my response to a post was deleted becasue the original post got deleted.
Weird.

@TheNumber4
You had mentioned about Knoblauch not caring about how much his team hits.
That is something I dont care for at all about the way Knoblauch coaches.

The soft style of play we are watching game in and game out lends itself to a team that doesnt get emotionally invested in the game often enough.
Just look at how many games this team has sleepwalked through this season.

I have said it before but this team would really benefit from an energy line that just goes out there and dominates physically.
It would drag the team into back into games emotionally. It would help the team to be more emotionally invested in games.
Playing a soft style that has this team being the nail instead of the hammer is not helping this team at all.

 

[Soundwave]

Not sure why but my response to a post was deleted becasue the original post got deleted.
Weird.

@TheNumber4
You had mentioned about Knoblauch not caring about how much his team hits.
That is something I dont care for at all about the way Knoblauch coaches.

The soft style of play we are watching game in and game out lends itself to a team that doesnt get emotionally invested in the game often enough.
Just look at how many games this team has sleepwalked through this season.

I have said it before but this team would really benefit from an energy line that just goes out there and dominates physically.
It would drag the team into back into games. It would help the team to be more emotionally invested in games.

It would be nice but good luck getting those players with limited cap space. That's why I advocate for bringing back a player like Klim Kostin, he's fast and physical and scored at a nice rate here.

But most importantly he probably can be had for peanuts which leaves assets to be spent elsewhere.

 

[TheNumber4]

Not sure why but my response to a post was deleted becasue the original post got deleted.
Weird.

@TheNumber4
You had mentioned about Knoblauch not caring about how much his team hits.
That is something I dont care for at all about the way Knoblauch coaches.

The soft style of play we are watching game in and game out lends itself to a team that doesnt get emotionally invested in the game often enough.
Just look at how many games this team has sleepwalked through this season.

I have said it before but this team would really benefit from an energy line that just goes out there and dominates physically.
It would drag the team into back into games emotionally. It would help the team to be more emotionally invested in games.
Playing a soft style that has this team being the nail instead of the hammer is not helping this team at all.

Different thread bro lol.

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Nuge is a shell of his 100 point self.

His 100pts was leeched off of the greatest powerplay in the history of the game (mcdrai carrying).

He is the most backpacked player in the league and it's now starting to show.

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Not sure why but my response to a post was deleted becasue the original post got deleted.
Weird.

@TheNumber4
You had mentioned about Knoblauch not caring about how much his team hits.
That is something I dont care for at all about the way Knoblauch coaches.

The soft style of play we are watching game in and game out lends itself to a team that doesnt get emotionally invested in the game often enough.
Just look at how many games this team has sleepwalked through this season.

I have said it before but this team would really benefit from an energy line that just goes out there and dominates physically.
It would drag the team into back into games emotionally. It would help the team to be more emotionally invested in games.
Playing a soft style that has this team being the nail instead of the hammer is not helping this team at all.

It's not that Knobby doesn't care about hits, it's that he's actively telling his team to NOT play physically. Physicality is not a pre-requesite for ice time on this team.

He alluded to this during the playoffs when questioned about it. He said he thinks hitting is a sign that you dont have the puck and that he'd rather his team "check with their legs."

It's no surprise that a guy as stoic as him on the bench doesn't do much to get the team raring to go. It's just not his style.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

His 100pts was leeched off of the greatest powerplay in the history of the game (mcdrai carrying).

He is the most backpacked player in the league and it's now starting to show.

I've been saying this for years on these boards but everyone's so conditioned to stand up for the golden boy that I just sounded like a dick apparently

Despite being such a highly touted prospect he never had the drive to work on his deficiencies at any point in his career. He never got better at faceoffs or put on any sort of strength so eventually had to move him to the wing. He doesn't have the compete to drive a line despite coming out of junior with all the skill that #1OV picks have so he gets saddled with generational centers. If McDavid or Draisaitl aren't firing, he has no chance at picking up any slack or producing independent of them. Do you recall any time when he stepped up when those 2 went dry? His production lives and dies off their sticks. This season it doesn't even live. It only dies.

 

[Soundwave]

I've been saying this for years on these boards but everyone's so conditioned to stand up for the golden boy that I just sounded like a dick apparently

 

[guymez]

It's not that Knobby doesn't care about hits, it's that he's actively telling his team to NOT play physically. Physicality is not a pre-requesite for ice time on this team.

He alluded to this during the playoffs when questioned about it. He said he thinks hitting is a sign that you dont have the puck and that he'd rather his team "check with their legs."

It's no surprise that a guy as stoic as him on the bench doesn't do much to get the team raring to go. It's just not his style.

Good points and I would like to hear Knoblauchs solution for getting his team emotionally invested in games.
An argument could be made that instead of having a line or a number of players that can emotionally drag this team into a game...the team needs to have some level of objective urgency before they get invested. Like falling behind in a game....or getting off to a slow start in the season.

That very thing seemed to happen in the SCF last season against Florida.
The team really didnt show up until game 3 or 4 of that series. By then it was too late.

Also... the playoffs are such a grind and this team this season isnt the kind of team to grind another team down. Part of that is because they arent a very big team and on top of not being a big team they are one of the oldest teams in the NHL.

 

[TheNumber4]

It's not that Knobby doesn't care about hits, it's that he's actively telling his team to NOT play physically. Physicality is not a pre-requesite for ice time on this team.

He alluded to this during the playoffs when questioned about it. He said he thinks hitting is a sign that you dont have the puck and that he'd rather his team "check with their legs."

It's no surprise that a guy as stoic as him on the bench doesn't do much to get the team raring to go. It's just not his style.

From a purely Xs and Os, get the job done defending standpoint, he's right. You don't need to hit to defend. You can even win the possession game without it.

From a philosophical standpoint, in that you hit to hurt to wear your opponents down in a series, there's a debate to be had there though. But you better make sure your team is built for it (huge and young) otherwise your probably just going to tire yourself out as much as the team your hitting.

 

[M Ace]

Someything really has to happen…

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

I've been saying this for years on these boards but everyone's so conditioned to stand up for the golden boy that I just sounded like a dick apparently

Despite being such a highly touted prospect he never had the drive to work on his deficiencies at any point in his career. He never got better at faceoffs or put on any sort of strength so eventually had to move him to the wing. He doesn't have the compete to drive a line despite coming out of junior with all the skill that #1OV picks have so he gets saddled with generational centers. If McDavid or Draisaitl aren't firing, he has no chance at picking up any slack or producing independent of them. Do you recall any time when he stepped up when those 2 went dry? His production lives and dies off their sticks. This season it doesn't even live. It only dies.

I don't think it's that deep. It's that he's part of the 3 #1 overalls that we picked in probably the three weakest draft classes of the last 20+ years. He's just not elite. The hockey gods corrected this by giving us McDavid. So, despite how weak him, hall, and yak were, they indirectly got us the greatest skilled player in the history of the game....

 

[guymez]

From a purely Xs and Os, get the job done defending standpoint, he's right. You don't need to hit to defend. You can even win the possession game without it.

From a philosophical standpoint, in that you hit to hurt to wear your opponents down in a series, there's a debate to be had there though. But you better make sure your team is built for it (huge and young) otherwise your probably just going to tire yourself out as much as the team your hitting.

A valid point and consistently being the nail instead of the hammer (and watching that from the bench) has to take a toll psychologically as well.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

This was a total team LOSS tonight, not one aspect of the game was good tonight.

 

[TheNumber4]

A valid point and consistently being the nail instead of the hammer (and watching that from the bench) has to take a toll psychologically as well.

That's true. Luckily the Oilers have never really been a team that could be bullied. We were always big enough under Holland to not really be a "soft" team. That said, our Bottom 6 was always a bit undersized whereas teams like Vegas, Panthers, Winnipeg seem to emphasize size through out.

I said earlier, I don't really know what identity this team is going for anymore. Under Holland we know size and speed were priorities. Under JJ/Bowman they don't seem to be a priority with the acquisitions so far.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

i think management needs to make a trade and/or send a few guys down to the AHL. Too many players on this team are comfortable, they feel safe. A wake up call is NEEDED and it needs to be LOUD. 25% of the season is over, this is NOT a good team right now.

 

[guymez]

That's true. Luckily the Oilers have never really been a team that could be bullied. We were always big enough under Holland to not really be a "soft" team. That said, our Bottom 6 was always a bit undersized whereas teams like Vegas, Panthers, Winnipeg seem to emphasize size through out.

I said earlier, I don't really know what identity this team is going for anymore. Under Holland we know size and speed were priorities. Under JJ/Bowman they don't seem to be a priority with the acquisitions so far.

I wholeheartedly agree about the teams lack of size and the issues it creates.

Re the bolded...the indentity issue is totally valid and its something I have posted about before.
If this team isnt scoring what is their identity? What can they reliably fall back on when the puck isnt going in?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Coach finally somewhat critical of Skinner

What did he say? IMO it's time to make a move or at minimum give Pickard 3-4 games in a row unless he too shits the bed like a shitnami, shitnado or shiticane.

 

[TheNumber4]

I wholeheartedly agree about the teams lack of size and the issues it creates.

Re the bolded...the indentity issue is totally valid and its something I have posted about before.
If this team isnt scoring what is their identity? What can they reliably fall back on when the puck isnt going in?

I don't know what our identity is any more. But I do know what it should have been.

McD when asked how we can play our best in the playoffs: "Play Fast"

I'd take McD's assessment of our team over any GM in the League. If Captain is telling you we need to be fast, we really should have continued to build for speed. That means Holloway, that means "his legs are his gift" Broberg, and that means the League's literal fastest player in Mcleod.

 

[guymez]

I don't know what our identity is any more. But I do know what it should have been.

McD when asked how we can play our best in the playoffs: "Play Fast"

I'd take McD's assessment of our team over any GM in the League. If Captain is telling you we need to be fast, we really should have continued to build for speed. That means Holloway, that means "his legs are his gift" Broberg, and that means the League's literal fastest player in Mcleod.

100%
This team was fast last season. Its not anymore.

So this team is not fast....its not big...its not tough...its not a systems driven team either.
Its also one of the oldest teams in the NHL (if not the oldest).

Its a team that has the 2 best offensive players in the NHL and that more than anything masks some very real flaws with how this team is currently constructed,

As you and @CrazyJoeDavola have pointed out though...maybe this is pretty close to exactly the type of team Knoblauch wants.
If thats true then I am not very optimisitic at all about this team winning the cup.

 

[guymez]

Just listening to the GYB podcast. Rob Brown makes a very good point.

Against non playoff teams this is team is 9-3.
Against playoff teams this team is 1-6.

That is very revealing.

Rob Browns point about why...intensity.
This team just isnt invested nearly enough and its related to the lack of physicality.

 

[TheNumber4]

100%
This team was fast last season. Its not anymore.

So this team is not fast....its not big...its not tough...its not a systems driven team either.
Its also one of the oldest teams in the NHL (if not the oldest).

Its a team that has the 2 best offensive players in the NHL and that more than anything masks some very real flaws with how this team is currently constructed,

As you and @CrazyJoeDavola have pointed out though...maybe this is pretty close to exactly the type of team Knoblauch wants.
If thats true then I am not very optimisitic at all about this team winning the cup.

No Identity at the moment. Which reminds me of how Dubas ran the Leafs. He had a quote where he said something to the affect at the a Leafs scouting meeting, "I don't care if they are big, I don't care how fast they are, I just care if they can play". Hard to build an identity like that which is probably why the Dubas Leafs were always looking for their identity and changing it on the fly.

 

[guymez]

No Identity at the moment. Which reminds me of how Dubas ran the Leafs. He had a quote where he said something to the affect at the a Leafs scouting meeting, "I don't care if they are big, I don't care how fast they are, I just care if they can play". Hard to build an identity like that which is probably why the Dubas Leafs were always looking for their identity and changing it on the fly.

Exactly.
Thats a very good comparison.

The amount of weak stick checks I saw in this game was very frustrating.
No commitment to playing with purpose and outworking the other team.
I enjoy watching hard working teams which is one of the reasons why I was so fond of the Oilers teams in the 90"s. They werent very talented but damn did they work hard game in and game out.
This team only does that when the spirit moves them. Might be because McDavid and Draisaitl can completely carry this team when they are on.

One of the things I appreciated about the Wild in this game is that every single player seemed to play with intensity. Every player was invested.
They looked like a hard working team to me and that means that when their star player isnt having a good game they are still hard to beat.

When the Oilers 2 best players are having an off game the Oilers are not hard to beat.

 

[TheNumber4]

Exactly.
Thats a very good comparison.

The amount of weak stick checks I saw in this game was very frustrating.
No commitment to playing with purpose and outworking the other team.
I enjoy watching hard working teams which is one of the reasons why I was so fond of the Oilers teams in the 90"s. They werent very talented but damn did they work hard game in and game out.
This team only does that when the spirit moves them. Might be because McDavid and Draisaitl can completely carry this team when they are on.

One of the things I appreciated about the Wild in this game is that every single player seemed to play with intensity. Every player was invested.
They looked like a hard working team to me and that means that when their star player isnt having a good game they are still hard to beat.

When the Oilers 2 best players are having an off game the Oilers are not hard to beat.

I like how easy their D made it look too. To just stand up and use their range to stifle our offence. When you are big and fast, everything is just easier to do in this League. And that pays dividends in the playoffs.

You look at a guy like Derek Ryan. Who needs to go 120% to make any play out there. And for the most part he does always put in that effort. But it becomes so taxing on you that you will fade out and eventually will get rubbed off a puck or make a mental mistake. The teams that win in the playoffs, if their guys work as hard as your guys, but they are bigger and faster, they'll win the war of attrition against you evenutally.