GDT: SJ Sharks at Ottawa Senators - 4PM EST - TSN5 / RDS2 - The Empire Scores Back - Episode V

[Burrowsaurus]

I'd be very weary to sign Chychrun long term. His defensive IQ is really suspect

Or just get him a decent partner. As of now we have to force chychrun and chabot out there. I think they can figure something out that at least makes them half decent.

 

[Sun God Nika]

I'd be very weary to sign Chychrun long term. His defensive IQ is really suspect

missed a lot of hockey. getting defensive rhythm requires lots of games. still youngish for a D. I rather try finding a way to get Chabot out and sign Chycs for 7Mx8

 

[Burrowsaurus]

On the Vlasic goal Stu didn't backcheck at all and Batherson just coasted back. On the LeBlanc goal Tarasenko out of position down by the goal, Stu dives to try and take away the pass and misses and Batherson up at the blueline as he just got on. On the Zadina goal Batherson has the puck in his corner and rather go behind his net to Chychrun ( the safe play) throws a buck up along the boards Tarasenko swats at it. SJ turns it over at the blueline and within seconds it's in the back of the net.
So the Stutzle, Tarasenko Batherson line were on for 4 goals and 3 against. And yet those guys were stars of the game.

Well I mean the “stars of the game” is not some pure science lol.

What bothers me on the 2nd goal is that everyone can see that chychrun is inn trouble. And the sharks react. And none of our forwards do. They’re ALL hanging down in the Ozone just hoping chychrun wins the battle and gets it deep. Like no. Go f***ing help. Start getting in good position to prevent a goal against. Live to fight another day.

 

[Relapsing]

And I think that was after chabot failed to clear on the other side.

OK? Is that an excuse for an NHL player to make a one handed play up the boards into traffic in his own end?

 

[DueDiligence]

he could have been involved in the first goal if he did somebody else's job, when you start asking guys to do that you no longer have a system you have a mess. If that's the type of poor defensive play you think he had it's hard to take your evaluation seriously,

Come on. So when there is a defensive breakdown guys are just to "play their position"? On that goal Batherson could have hustled alot more and possibly prevented that goal. I know two other guys are more to blame but the problem with this team and Batherson as well, is the lack of hustle on the defensive side of things. That's all.

 

[Xspyrit]

33 points in 38 games and only -2 on this team at 5 AAV is solid

It's more than solid, it's a bargain.

Only 54 forwards with 30+ games have a better PPG right now but 136 forwards have a higher cap hit than him this season

Even last season, 137 forwards had a higher cap hit but he finished 79th in scoring among forwards. His cap hit was still a bargain in a down season.

You're right but people look at the shot count and forget every single goal was a prime scoring chance. Like yeah you'd like for Korpi to make a highlight reel save on one of those but he doesn't deserve to get the blame for the score being so close.

There was many games (particularly earlier in the season) where Korpisalo was standing on his head but still end giving up 5 goals against. It was the same story for Gustavsson the season before he was traded, that's how I knew we were making a mistake. Evaluating Sens goalies based on raw stats has been FOOLISH for years.

It reminds me of beer leagues, you make point blank stop after another but still end up giving up 8 goals. That's how bad our "team defense" is, relative to NHL standards.

Batherson didn't get enough on it to clear, but his attempt was of the off the glass and out variety. Tank tried to help it along by batting it mid air, because it was a foot or two off the ice, I have a hard time blaming tank on that.

You wish Batherson's clear would have been harder but look at Tarasenko, he's static too close to the wall so he just deflects it softly when he should have controlled and cleared. That said, Ferraro did an incredible job keeping that puck in. We are used to lay the blame around on the goals against but Sharks made some really great plays for their goals.

True, but I think it's more of case that people are saying that Korpisalo couldn't see the puck versus blaming the goalie. Nuance can have benefits over oversimplification.

On the 4th goal, that was a shot from the slot (aka high danger zone) that went over Korpisalo's shoulder.

I agree with your conclusion (bolded text 2nd paragraph from bottom).

Yeah, I don't read much so I don't know exactly but I have seen many posts (not just HF) blaming goaltending for last night (close) win.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Chych needs to go back exclusively on the left, he can't play RD.

 

[Big Muddy]

Just watched the replay of the first SJ goal... Chychrun tried to one hand push the puck up the boards past two SJ players on the wall, with a third incoming.

What should have been a simple out leads to a goal because Chychrun can't keep two hands on his stick.

There was good analysis both in here and in the intermissions. They showed the breakdowns that were made were, lack of coverage, etc. that lead to the goals against. Our goalies have let in quite a few bad goals this year and need to be better. But, I don't blame them for the problems in this game. Better goaltending will help, but so much more is needed as well. We will need to much better defensively if we ever expect to make some noise in the playoffs.

 

[JD1]

Just watched the replay of the first SJ goal... Chychrun tried to one hand push the puck up the boards past two SJ players on the wall, with a third incoming.

What should have been a simple out leads to a goal because Chychrun can't keep two hands on his stick.

Chychrun has one hand on his stick more than any player I can remember. It's weird.

I've seen posts about that goal happening because he's on the wrong side. No, it's the one hand thing.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There was good analysis both in here and in the intermissions. They showed the breakdowns that were made were, lack of coverage, etc. that lead to the goals against. Our goalies have let in quite a few bad goals this year and need to be better. But, I don't blame them for the problems in this game. Better goaltending will help, but so much more is needed as well. We will need to much better defensively if we ever expect to make some noise in the playoffs.

Its missing assignments. Not doing your job. On the first goal where Chychrun one handed it up the boards the 4th line was on the ice.
Chabot tried to move it up the left side.. Kelly was in position but there was a man right on him he could not take the pass. It was put back around behind the net. Chychrun picked it up and moved towards the right corner. At that point someone (keeping it simple the RW Mackewen) has to hustle to get in position to be an outlet. He didn't hustle and he was late. The up high forward coverage continued to break down from there.
Methot said it was an issue playing the lefty on the right side. I think it was just a bad decision. He had a little more time and could have managed the puck better. There was clearly no one there to take the "pass" its a guaranteed Dzone giveaway.

He has to get his other hand on his stick and control the puck.. Eat in in the corner if he has to.. Lots of room behind to reverse it again.

 

[Senovision]

Chychrun has one hand on his stick more than any player I can remember. It's weird.

I've seen posts about that goal happening because he's on the wrong side. No, it's the one hand thing.

In his rookie season, Chychrun had surgery to repair a ligament in his left shoulder.
I googled and I thought he had a shoulder injury so
I wonder if that has anything to do with him using one hand on his stick?

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Stü playing like Stü again was a huge win, kid needs confidence.

I wasn’t watching closely, but I hope the D wasn’t giving huge gaps at our blue line like the did against Buffalo.

Nice to have a last seconds play go our way, I watchers that last O-zone shift several times, it was so good… and it helped that SJ was playing the way we have been guilty of, unable to clear the zone, for once we were the team that capitalized.

Mixed feelings about eeking out a win against the worst team, but we did dominate. Goals against were mostly due to our own mistakes and bad play, there is still a ways to go.

Great to see the team do jacked after the final goal.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yes we won, but to be tied with the worst team in the league with 4 minutes to play in the 3rd period is embarrassing.

The Sens were the better team, no question. But the defensive breakdowns are incredibly bad. On each of San Jose's goals, they had a player wide open. No team allows this to happen as much as the Sens do.

This team is so far away from playoff hockey. Can you imagine this team in the first round? They would be absolutely murdered 4 straight.

Agreed but if they were making the playoffs, it'd mean that they have finally figured out how to play 2-way hockey. They won't sniff the playoffs until then.

Tarasenko is plus 10 on the year. 2nd best on the team.

I don't know why you keep quoting me with these outdated mentality posts...

Among the 13 Sens forwards with at least 100 ES minutes, Tarasenko is :

- 3rd worse for CA/60
- Worst for SA/60
- Worst for xGA/60

It's been like that his whole career. It just happens that he has the 2nd highest PDO on the team

I disagree with that. People look at a goalie and have an expectation that they make some saves now and again. I fully understand that you can't be giving up high quality chances but I think the season and yesterday's game tilt more towards weak goaltending

It's not about the quantity of high quality chances they give up, it's about the quantity of gift wrapped goals against, which is comfortably more than most NHL teams except some rebuilding teams who lacks talent big time. Our "team defense" is still at that level.

We gift wrap so many goals against in so many ways, blown coverage, unforced turnovers, more complicated than nothing zone exits, confusion, out of position, lack of structure, cohesion, puck support, etc.

Just watched the replay of the first SJ goal... Chychrun tried to one hand push the puck up the boards past two SJ players on the wall, with a third incoming.

What should have been a simple out leads to a goal because Chychrun can't keep two hands on his stick.

Wrong play by Chychrun obviously but is it because he failed to recognize that forwards were completely out of gas? MacEwen was slow as molasses there, hard to make zone exits without forward support.

Or just get him a decent partner. As of now we have to force chychrun and chabot out there. I think they can figure something out that at least makes them half decent.

Problem is all of Chabot, Chychrun, Sanderson and Brannstrom need ZUB

lol

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Problem is all of Chabot, Chychrun, Sanderson and Brannstrom need ZUB

lol

Yes.

We need another Zub, also a RHD.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Anyone notice that when Stü or Giroux are on the ice we can play the 3 high game really well? More of that please.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yes.

We need another Zub, also a RHD.

We have some hard decisions

Sanderson - Zub/RHD
Chabot - Zub/RHD
Chychrun -JBD

Do we want to go with the 3 big LHDs on each pair or keep only 2 of them? (Sanderson is untouchable though)

If we keep only 2, then also have to make a decision on Brannstrom and Kleven. Tyler is bigger, younger and will be cheaper for now. If he can be even more of shutdown than a 2-way, maybe that'll be more of what we need

I think we should sell Chychrun as he doesn't have a big contract yet and some teams might see him as the perfect fit. Depending on what kind of RHD we can get Chabot and if we clean our defensive game, that could be more beneficial. Chychrun has a good shot and is one of the best goal scoring D-men but transition would be better like this :

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - RHD
Kleven -JBD

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Ideally we are in a position to draft Levshunov.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

our forwards destroy the d confidence and give them ptsd

and then they team up and do that to the goalies.

 

[JD1]

I don't know why you keep quoting me with these outdated mentality posts...

Why? Because it matters to people that play the game and it matters to people that coach it. You frequently hear both talking about it.

Does it have flaws? Sure. Most advanced stats have flaws.

Corsi against. Does it matter if you're giving up low percentage shots?

Same with shots against? Per 60 can get funny. In a game where a forward plays 12 minutes of even strength hockey, having a sa/60 that is two SA higher against translates to 1 extra shot against every 7.5 periods. Is that indicative of better defensive play?

Expected goals can be really misleading. A 2 on 1 from your own blue line. All kinds of time to make your play. All kinds of time for the fan at home to sit on the edge of his seat. Pass goes across. The shooter has positioned himself on the off wing to one time it. Wide open net. The shooter whiffs on the shot. The fan at home swears at the TV. Alternatively, a ho hum unscreened slap shot from the blue line and the goalie makes a routine save. Two scenarios. One is a fairly high probability goal scenario. The other is nothing burger. But the nothing burger produces a positive x/goal value.

The only guys on the team with less actual goals against (300 minutes of 5 on 5) are Ridley and Joseph. Of the guys that have played 35+ games, his actual goals against is almost HALF of the rest of the lot.

 

[Xspyrit]

Why? Because it matters to people that play the game and it matters to people that coach it. You frequently hear both talking about it.

Does it have flaws? Sure. Most advanced stats have flaws.

Corsi against. Does it matter if you're giving up low percentage shots?

Same with shots against? Per 60 can get funny. In a game where a forward plays 12 minutes of even strength hockey, having a sa/60 that is two SA higher against translates to 1 extra shot against every 7.5 periods. Is that indicative of better defensive play?

Expected goals can be really misleading. A 2 on 1 from your own blue line. All kinds of time to make your play. All kinds of time for the fan at home to sit on the edge of his seat. Pass goes across. The shooter has positioned himself on the off wing to one time it. Wide open net. The shooter whiffs on the shot. The fan at home swears at the TV. Alternatively, a ho hum unscreened slap shot from the blue line and the goalie makes a routine save. Two scenarios. One is a fairly high probability goal scenario. The other is nothing burger. But the nothing burger produces a positive x/goal value.

The only guys on the team with less actual goals against (300 minutes of 5 on 5) are Ridley and Joseph. Of the guys that have played 35+ games, his actual goals against is almost HALF of the rest of the lot.

Corsi and Shots against matters because it's confirmed by him having the worst xGA/60 on the team. He's obviously not as a bad as Hamonic but the longer the period is, the more accurate expected goals become

our forwards destroy the d confidence and give them ptsd

and then they team up and do that to the goalies.

Well said, and yeah, Chychrun doesn't look like Arizona's Chychrun at all. That's why it's so important to manufacture proper NHL 2-way hockey. If not, it becomes some kind of virus that get players infected.

I posted warnings about that for 4 straight seasons, the longer we'd be in the DJ Dorion era, the longer it would hurt.

You'd have to be f***ing braindead to not eat crow and recognize that DJ Dorion was the worst possible recipe for success.

 

[JD1]

Corsi and Shots against matters because it's confirmed by him having the worst xGA/60 on the team. He's obviously not as a bad as Hamonic but the longer the period is, the more accurate expected goals become

well, let me know the next time you hear a player or a coach talk about a player's x/GA.

 

[Xspyrit]

well, let me know the next time you hear a player or a coach talk about a player's x/GA.

On TV/Radio?

lol they're not going to talk about what casual fans never heard about. It's internal deep analysis stuff. All NHL teams are into that

 

[JD1]

On TV/Radio?

lol they're not going to talk about what casual fans never heard about. It's internal deep analysis stuff. All NHL teams are into that

Please do let me know when they get around to awarding the Corsi Cup. And I'm really interested in who they're going to the name the x/GF trophy after whenever they come out with one. I wonder who the all time x/GF leader is? I should look that up.

 

[Relapsing]

Chychrun has one hand on his stick more than any player I can remember. It's weird.

I've seen posts about that goal happening because he's on the wrong side. No, it's the one hand thing.

It is mind bogglingly frustrating. He's been doing it all season.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Did you SEE how Brady smiled and Stu looked at the ground while JM was talking????

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