Simon Edvinsson

[RedHawkDown]

Lidstrom wasn't a consistent Norris winner because he was great at defense. He won Norris' because he was great at defense while putting up 70pts a year


4th lines and 3rd pairs are full no offense, elite defensive players. It's extremely hard to find a player elite at both, but was easier to find one elite at defense. Maatta has been by far the Wings best pure "defender" since he's been here. But it doesn't matter because he isn't capable of generating offense at a reasonable rate to justify higher deployment

This isn’t true. 4th line and 3rd pairs are just shittier players. If you took Raymond and tasked him with purely shutdown duties without scoring, he would be way better at it than everybody in our bottom 6.

Defense is more systems based than offense, so it’s easier to learn, but it isn’t easy. Good players are usually just better at everything in hockey than bad players; a lot of them just focus on offense because that’s where their creativity shines and because nobody else on the team can do it.

Most 4th liners and 3rd pairings are also shit defensively in addition to being shit offensively. That’s why they mostly play against other 3rd pairings and 4th lines instead of playing against top lines.

Elite defenders who put up minimal offense don’t play on third pairings. Maatta is not an example of that. He doesn’t play higher because he is just a mid player in general, not because he doesn’t generate offense. If he was elite defensively he’d be playing top pair. Examples of that are guys like Slavin, MA Vlasic, Alex Vlasic, Carlo, Faber, etc all of whom are 1st pairing dmen or play at that level on their teams.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I think higher level players choose that yeah, not the ones trying to break into the league. I think Chiarot knows he shouldn't randomly try to rush the puck, or repeatedly shove someone in the upper back while chasing them around the ice. It's just more fun to play that way lol. It's not a coincidence a coach like Torts gets everyone to be elite at defense within a few months

These are professionals man. If Chiarot was good enough to play like Slavin if he just stopped trying to have “fun”, he would do it and make 6.5M a year with an 8 year contract that’s considered a steal instead of 4.5 a year short term that we’ll dump as soon as it’s over.

Everyone knows what they “should” do, the ability to do it at a high level in game and make those split second decisions is where skill and talent comes in. And that applies to defense as much as it does offense.

 

[izlez]

It's amazing that a guy like Wallinder, a smooth skating 6'4 defenseman with offensive ability, could have all his dreams come true tomorrow if only he put in .001% effort into just flipping a switch and being elite at defense, but his response is "Naw. I don't do defense. It's not fun."

 

[Oddbob]

I would argue that Maatta's minutes dropped because the Wings defense got better so they could use him in a more limited role. Again, if he's our best defensive defender, why wouldn't be out on the PK? If he's got some permanent lung issue from pneumonia then he shouldn't be in the lineup.



Every Dman may "know" what they should do, but to be able to do it at game speed is a rare quality.

You think all these guys are choosing not to be good at defense because they get bored? That someone like Cholowski is passing up a regular NHL job because playing defense is too boring? He'd rather stick to offense in the AHL?

All I am saying is he was playing with Hronek and Hronek had a career start, with Maatta playing way more. Then Maatta got pneumonia and ever since then he has not been used in the same role or ice time. Should he be PK, in my opinion yes. Lalonde is the coach though and his usage of players is weird at the best of times. Our blueline has actually gotten worse since then, so his usage has to be related to that. Petry makes far more boneheaded plays and keeps getting too much ice time.

I think higher level players choose that yeah, not the ones trying to break into the league. I think Chiarot knows he shouldn't randomly try to rush the puck, or repeatedly shove someone in the upper back while chasing them around the ice. It's just more fun to play that way lol. It's not a coincidence a coach like Torts gets everyone to be elite at defense within a few months

Who on Philly is elite at defence?

 

[PullHard]

It’s hilarious that that guy cited tortorella and Philly bc the one player on that roster that most anyone would historically cite as a high end two way player is couturier and he’s seen nothing but role reduction and criticism playing for torts

 

[Winger98]

All I am saying is he was playing with Hronek and Hronek had a career start, with Maatta playing way more. Then Maatta got pneumonia and ever since then he has not been used in the same role or ice time. Should he be PK, in my opinion yes. Lalonde is the coach though and his usage of players is weird at the best of times. Our blueline has actually gotten worse since then, so his usage has to be related to that. Petry makes far more boneheaded plays and keeps getting too much ice time.



Who on Philly is elite at defence?

I've seen this mentioned before, and it's always made a bit of sense because Maata hasn't done anything to deserve less ice time, and I don't really see other guys doing much to take it from him. Either way Maata and Petry are both likely walking out the door after this season, so it's not a huge deal. Hoping we see the kids do well and have Wallinder and ASP walking in next year.

 

[schuelma24]

ASP is now up to 5 goals, 8 assists in 13 games and playing 20 plus a night in the SHL. Starting to think he's making the Wings next year..

 

[newfy]

It's hilarious that he does this and it's not the first time. I remember last season he did the same thing "toying" with the guy trying to fight him and he tossed that guy to the ground too. Some around here were saying he "should be more aware" that kind of stuff could get himself hurt

Reinhardt there is 6'1 207lbs so he's no small fish

If he's fighting a legit brute like another Moritz Seider out there I don't think he's gonna be toying around the same way

Thats because what he did last year was stupid and could get him hurt. He had an NHL player swinging at his head and he literally let himself go limp like the guy would stop if he showed he wasn't interested.

Its the NHL, it doesn't need to be a 6'4 brute to put one on your chin and hurt you. They're pro athletes. You get in that situation, you protect yourself. You don't need to go dropping the gloves and teeing off on guys, but that's different than not protecting yourself at all.

Someone 6'1 and 200+ lbs just needs one shot to hurt you bad. He was fine against Reinhardt but against Crookshank was stupid

 

[jaster]

I've seen this mentioned before, and it's always made a bit of sense because Maata hasn't done anything to deserve less ice time, and I don't really see other guys doing much to take it from him. Either way Maata and Petry are both likely walking out the door after this season, so it's not a huge deal. Hoping we see the kids do well and have Wallinder and ASP walking in next year.

I remember it being pointed out around the time he was sick, it was immediately upon his return that his TOI dropped several minutes and then never recovered. It's totally plausible that he has endurance issues based on lung capacity.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This isn’t true. 4th line and 3rd pairs are just shittier players. If you took Raymond and tasked him with purely shutdown duties without scoring, he would be way better at it than everybody in our bottom 6.

Defense is more systems based than offense, so it’s easier to learn, but it isn’t easy. Good players are usually just better at everything in hockey than bad players; a lot of them just focus on offense because that’s where their creativity shines and because nobody else on the team can do it.

Most 4th liners and 3rd pairings are also shit defensively in addition to being shit offensively. That’s why they mostly play against other 3rd pairings and 4th lines instead of playing against top lines.

Elite defenders who put up minimal offense don’t play on third pairings. Maatta is not an example of that. He doesn’t play higher because he is just a mid player in general, not because he doesn’t generate offense. If he was elite defensively he’d be playing top pair. Examples of that are guys like Slavin, MA Vlasic, Alex Vlasic, Carlo, Faber, etc all of whom are 1st pairing dmen or play at that level on their teams.

Pretty much this. The specific reason why he can't play further up against better competition is his footspeed (or lack thereof) at his size. He is a good, smart player but the feet are very much a limiting factor.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

Thats because what he did last year was stupid and could get him hurt. He had an NHL player swinging at his head and he literally let himself go limp like the guy would stop if he showed he wasn't interested.

Its the NHL, it doesn't need to be a 6'4 brute to put one on your chin and hurt you. They're pro athletes. You get in that situation, you protect yourself. You don't need to go dropping the gloves and teeing off on guys, but that's different than not protecting yourself at all.

Someone 6'1 and 200+ lbs just needs one shot to hurt you bad. He was fine against Reinhardt but against Crookshank was stupid

You're not wrong, one swing and things could go wrong. I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point but maybe he gets humbled soon. Then he'll learn nobody will f*** with him

It's honestly just funny to watch that kind of man handling

 

[heyfolks]

From the Devils GDT:

3) Simon says ..... I'M HERE AND I'M THE MAN. Like Marco, Smon on the top pairing with Mo pushes the rest of the crew into a more appropriate slot. Chiarot is a 2nd pairing guy. IMO the rest are mix and match. I like AJo more than LaLonde. I am not a fan of Gus or Maata. Holl.... His resurgence is GREAT ..... for trade bait. Move that guy NOW! OK back to the Norris ready Edvinsson. Lalonde said it best:

The Detroit Red Wings were protecting a one-goal lead in the final three minutes Tuesday when Simon Edvinsson logged a shift that lasted 1:51, most of it against six skaters after the New York Islanders pulled their goaltender.

“He almost played the entire goalie pull and he was excellent,” coach Derek Lalonde said. “Had a couple stands on a couple of their entries, used his reach.

“Two really tough games on the road in which we are protecting a lead late and he’s right in it with big minutes.”

Simon Edvinsson‘s confidence grows as Red Wings’ role expands

Club's top pick in 2021 elevated to the top defense pairing and logging a lot of minutes.

www.mlive.com

I'll say it all season.... by March the expert commentators will be extolling his virtues and speaking to a darn shame it is that he is not Calder eligible by 1 game. Those that say they'd have chosen another player or that I speak in hyperbolic tones, will come to realize both their mistake and my own. You see my comparison to part of his game to Lidstrom, Chara and Hedman are understatements. I just didn't want to go any further out on to that limb.

Simon Edvinsson‘s confidence grows as Red Wings’ role expands

Club's top pick in 2021 elevated to the top defense pairing and logging a lot of minutes.

www.mlive.com

 

[heyfolks]

Points discussion..... With his skating and stick handling points will come but hr will never be a high octane Hughes Makar type. Yet, you can already see this guy defending and physically dominating top line talent.

ELITE shutdown, physical D'man who can skate, defend pass and skate i out of trouble against top line talent. I'll take this every day all day. His skill set is ideal for the post season.

 

[heyfolks]

Oil cans ... near 25 minutes against the best player in the world (McDavid) or a top 10 (Leon D)

Oilers 3-2 Red Wings (Oct 27, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Edmonton Oilers vs. Detroit Red Wings NHL game from October 27, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all goals, assists and penalty minutes stats.

www.espn.com

As a criticism, he must focus on retrieving pucks with more speed and, as Mickey said, SHOOT IT KID!

His ability to carry the puck up ice and join the offense is beginning to show itself.

This guy, because of Mo's support, is already playing 1st pairing minutes against the top players on the League. Again, I doubt this happens w/o MO, but this is ahead of where Seider was at this point in his career.

ALL ABOARD!

 

[KillerMillerTime]

This isn’t true. 4th line and 3rd pairs are just shittier players. If you took Raymond and tasked him with purely shutdown duties without scoring, he would be way better at it than everybody in our bottom 6.

Defense is more systems based than offense, so it’s easier to learn, but it isn’t easy. Good players are usually just better at everything in hockey than bad players; a lot of them just focus on offense because that’s where their creativity shines and because nobody else on the team can do it.

Most 4th liners and 3rd pairings are also shit defensively in addition to being shit offensively. That’s why they mostly play against other 3rd pairings and 4th lines instead of playing against top lines.

Elite defenders who put up minimal offense don’t play on third pairings. Maatta is not an example of that. He doesn’t play higher because he is just a mid player in general, not because he doesn’t generate offense. If he was elite defensively he’d be playing top pair. Examples of that are guys like Slavin, MA Vlasic, Alex Vlasic, Carlo, Faber, etc all of whom are 1st pairing dmen or play at that level on their teams.

Carlo is not a 1st pair Dman on Boston (McAvoy) though he is a above average 2nd pair shutdown guy, though devoid of even average puck skills.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

So with Mo and Ed on our top pair, which one is Pronger and which is Hedman?

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Looks like Edvinsson has been quite good defensively so far. And this is with those glaring mistakes we've all seen, so he can get even better. Seider looking great as well.

This is from HockeyStatsCards.com, which uses a Dom Luszczyszyn metric called Net Rating.

 

[Frk It]

For everyone saying this is a waste of a year, and we have too many stop gap vets, I mean at least we are getting to watch an Edvinsson-Seider pairing play a lot. Pretty awesome thing to watch if you ask me. I am really enjoying watching them play together and grow, and they have the upside to be one of the best pairings in the league no doubt.

My only gripe with Edvinsson is that I get his tall ass wearing #77 confused with Rasmussen's tall ass wearing #27 all the time.

 

[19 for president]

Oil cans ... near 25 minutes against the best player in the world (McDavid) or a top 10 (Leon D)

Oilers 3-2 Red Wings (Oct 27, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Edmonton Oilers vs. Detroit Red Wings NHL game from October 27, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all goals, assists and penalty minutes stats.

www.espn.com

As a criticism, he must focus on retrieving pucks with more speed and, as Mickey said, SHOOT IT KID!

His ability to carry the puck up ice and join the offense is beginning to show itself.

This guy, because of Mo's support, is already playing 1st pairing minutes against the top players on the League. Again, I doubt this happens w/o MO, but this is ahead of where Seider was at this point in his career.

ALL ABOARD!

I think Ed has the potential to be better long term than Seider but he is not close to where he was defensively as a rookie.

I would not trust Ed to take on other teams top lines by himself they way Seider did as a rookie. He is playing there now because he has a Seider to line up with. His game is not as fully developed overall as Seiders was when he entered the league, and that is more a props to Seider than a negative to Ed.

In general large dmen usually need a few seasons at the NHL to really come into their own. I could see Ed being absolutely dominant at 25, but he still has some growing to do from a decision making standpoint.

 

[ricky0034]

OVER 20?!?!?! Come on man.

Go ahead, pick anyone from 7 down you'd rather have.

NHL Records

records.nhl.com

When you post that player, I'll save it and get back to you at season's end.

He is 21 and led the Wings in Ice time last night 24 plus minutes in a 1-0 win. Yeah, you wanted more early, but you follow the Wings. That is a rare exception, with Larkin and Raymond being most notable on this roster. Even the wunderkid had a year in the SHL and one in the AHL. Simon took the same path, but I believe he hit the NHL a year younger (COVID and all). Yet, none of it matters and here is why.

This guy is going to be GREAT! Some thing I am just spewing hyperbole for its own sake. I AM NOT!

Defensively this kid is going to be a beat. 24 minutes last night in a 1-0 game as a top pairing d'man. What 6'6" d'man have you seen who can skate like this guy? Rhetorical, none. His stick work is already good, and will become great. He can hit, stands his own ground, makes a great 1st pass, can skate it up the ice and thinks his way through the NHL game at a high level. The only thing we have yet to see, and it isn't likely this season is if the guy can score. His passing will get him some assists, but his shot isn't notable. That will need some work.




You Expect more? GOOD! ........... You are going to get it. Not sure how 24 minutes of play in a 1-0 game isn't impressive to you, but it doesn't matter. This kid is a stud. By year's end, many will be saying it is a damn shame he missed this being his rookie season by a single game.

void looking pretty good at 11

just stick them in net and get a shutout every game

 

[lilidk]

I think Ed has the potential to be better long term than Seider but he is not close to where he was defensively as a rookie.

I would not trust Ed to take on other teams top lines by himself they way Seider did as a rookie. He is playing there now because he has a Seider to line up with. His game is not as fully developed overall as Seiders was when he entered the league, and that is more a props to Seider than a negative to Ed.

In general large dmen usually need a few seasons at the NHL to really come into their own. I could see Ed being absolutely dominant at 25, but he still has some growing to do from a decision making standpoint.

In the long run Seider is a beast, he is iron Man, very durable, Edvinsson is not so much

 

[Henkka]

In the long run Seider is a beast, he is iron Man, very durable, Edvinsson is not so much

Hmm... since Edvinsson was last season promoted to NHL. (last Red Wings 23 games)

Seider - 0 missed games
Edvinsson - 0 missed games.

Seider also had injury problems on his AHL/SHL seasons. But not at NHL. They could as durable as hell at NHL, when their bodies have matured.

 

[Lampedampe]

Hmm... since Edvinsson was last season promoted to NHL. (last Red Wings 23 games)

Seider - 0 missed games
Edvinsson - 0 missed games.

Seider also had injury problems on his AHL/SHL seasons. But not at NHL. They could as durable as hell at NHL, when their bodies have matured.

I read mutated at first.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

void looking pretty good at 11

just stick them in net and get a shutout every game

For a second I thought you were talking about Boyd Devereaux.

 

[Frk It]

I think he has the best CF% among our defenseman and we also have one of the better shot differentials when he is the ice compared to most of our other defenseman.

The kid is good (and will keep getting better).