Sign Marner and Tavares before playoffs?

[fahad203]

Nobody signs anything until the playoffs are done.
Playoff success should determine who gets paid how much. I don't care if John or Mitch scores a hatrick in regular season against Buffalo

I need to know they can score few points in playoff games

 

[Maple Leaf]

Nobody signs anything until the playoffs are done.
Playoff success should determine who gets paid how much. I don't care if John or Mitch scores a hatrick in regular season against Buffalo

I need to know they can score few points in playoff games

Last 8 seasons weren't enough we need to see if these superstars can get past the first round or if they are chicken

 

[Gabriel426]

It is not just making it past the first round. It is how close they are to winning the Cup.

50% of the teams who made the playoffs managed to make it past the first round EVERY YEAR.
Making it to the SECOND round is not some type of accomplishment, it should be the norm for a team with THREE and now FOUR players making over 10.5mil a season.

 

[LeafEgo]

You would have to sell it pretty hard. People don't really like it when their boss comes in and tries to pay them less than they earned in their job because they may have the potential to get a second job.

Say Toronto sells nothing at all, just simply offers a bit less than a competitor, knowing that Marner would stand to lose millions each year in endorsements going with the competitor. All else equal, how exactly do you see that playing out?

 

[no2ninja]

Keep Mitch hungry.... at least we may get decent playoff effort from him.

(then if we need to break the bank for him, we have a good reason to)

 

[ToneDog]

I also want to see what Ranta gets before I talk extension with Marner. If Mitch gets close to or more than Ranta again, the Leafs are a complete joke in my books.

 

[William Johnson]

Some of the recent proclamations about the Hart Trophy in relation to assessing player quality made me curious so I checked the voting tables since 2016-2017, firstly to help inform my understanding of how Marner is viewed by on-the-record, professional journalists and, secondly, to partially inform how this assessment of his quality and status might relate to his upcoming contract negotiations.

On the Leafs, Matthews has received 2421 points in Hart voting, with the most coming in his winning year, obviously. He has votes in 6 out of 8 years. Marner has received 16 points -- he has had votes in 2 out of 8 years, a collection of 4th, 5th and 6th place votes.

Here are the wingers who have more votes than Marner since 2016-2017:

Kucherov
Panarin
Pasternak
Tkachuk
Rantanen
Draisatl
Gaudreau
Kaprizov
Marchand
Stone
Huberdeau
P Kane
Hall
Wheeler
Ovechkin

Here is the list of wingers from this list who have higher AAVs than Marner, all of whom signed their higher number contracts after Mitch, who as we know signed for 6 years at 10.9 million:

Draisatl: 14 8 years max contract
Pasternak: 11.2 8 years max contract
Panarin: 11.6, 7 years, max contract

Interesting.

Postscript: I'm still curious about people's thoughts about whether the overall value of a contract is a factor in negotiations and considerations...I'm still confused as to why this isn't more of a talking point, not just here but in the media.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[sxvnert]

Media: "but JT has children and he wants to stay in toronto!"

 

[thewave]

Some of the recent proclamations about the Hart Trophy in relation to assessing player quality made me curious so I checked the voting tables since 2016-2017, firstly to help inform my understanding of how Marner is viewed by on-the-record, professional journalists and, secondly, to partially inform how this assessment of his quality and status might relate to his upcoming contract negotiations.

On the Leafs, Matthews has received 2421 points in Hart voting, with the most coming in his winning year, obviously. He has votes in 6 out of 8 years. Marner has received 16 points -- he has had votes in 2 out of 8 years, a collection of 4th, 5th and 6th place votes.

Here are the wingers who have more votes than Marner since 2016-2017:

Kucherov
Panarin
Pasternak
Tkachuk
Rantanen
Draisatl
Gaudreau
Kaprizov
Marchand
Stone
Huberdeau
P Kane
Hall
Wheeler
Ovechkin

Here is the list of wingers from this list who have higher AAVs than Marner, all of whom signed their higher number contracts after Mitch, who as we know signed for 6 years at 10.9 million:

Draisatl: 14 8 years max contract
Pasternak: 11.2 8 years max contract
Panarin: 11.6, 7 years, max contract

Interesting.

Postscript: I'm still curious about people's thoughts about whether the overall value of a contract is a factor in negotiations and considerations...I'm still confused as to why this isn't more of a talking point, not just here but in the media.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Well its pretty self evident that a certain fringe group here on HFBoards has taken it upon themselves to lionize Marner. Nothing is off the table including twisting numbers, using red herrings etc. The ultimate PR campaign would obviously orbit proof/truth of his exceptional play. The votes he gets or lack of them is for a reason. He didn't deserve to get them in the first place, but that wont stop the fringe lobby from generating Kypreos style narratives of how Marner could command a 14m contract on the open market.

Marner deserves 14m as much as Willy deserved 11.5m, they are both in the 10m range of players In todays cap. We have one star player that was paid relatively correctly and its Matthews at the time. Best goal scorer gets you paid after all.

 

[Confucius]

It is not just making it past the first round. It is how close they are to winning the Cup.

50% of the teams who made the playoffs managed to make it past the first round EVERY YEAR.
Making it to the SECOND round is not some type of accomplishment, it should be the norm for a team with THREE and now FOUR players making over 10.5mil a season.

When everybody has the same 85 million total to spend, how a team allocates it holds no advantage. No different than a team stating our lowest paid player makes 4 million we should win.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Blow it up!

When everybody has the same 85 million total to spend, how a team allocates it holds no advantage. No different than a team stating our lowest paid player makes 4 million we should win.

Leafs should give Marner 20 million he is so good

 

[Confucius]

Blow it up!


Leafs should give Marner 20 million he is so good

11 jeeze . Anyway if you give one guy. 20 (if he was worth it.) you have to balance that with 1million dollar guys. There is no advantage, everyone has the same number of dollars to spend.

 

[Mess]

I also want to see what Ranta gets before I talk extension with Marner. If Mitch gets close to or more than Ranta again, the Leafs are a complete joke in my books.

View attachment 949168

As one Leaf fan that wants to see Marner replaced with UFA Rantanen I would be willing to pay Mikko more because you can never have enough big physical powerforwards that can score if you have desires for your team to hoist a Stanley Cup.

 

[Maple Leaf]

11 jeeze . Anyway if you give one guy. 20 (if he was worth it.) you have to balance that with 1million dollar guys. There is no advantage, everyone has the same number of dollars to spend.

Leafs wasted all their money on overpriced players so they have a disadvantage

 

[ToneDog]

11 jeeze . Anyway if you give one guy. 20 (if he was worth it.) you have to balance that with 1million dollar guys. There is no advantage, everyone has the same number of dollars to spend.

True if you spend it wisely and players perform or outperform their contracts. Which Leafs core player is outperforming his contract? None IMO. Marner is the closest followed by Willie.

On the flipside Woll, Stolarz, Tanev, OEL, Knies, and McMann are outperforming their contracts.

 

[Confucius]

Leafs wasted all their money on overpriced players so they have a disadvantage

Maybe you are correct, maybe a team should really only carry 1 star player. It would probably be better for a team that needed to sell tickets to have said players. As I said earlier I think if you had a team where your worst player made 4 million it would be a solid team. Similar to Vegas their 1st year. I forget that the exact numbers but given teams could only protect 8 or 9 guys, in theory The worst player on Vegas would be 9th best on any team.

 

[sunstersun]

Maybe you are correct, maybe a team should really only carry 1 star player. It would probably be better for a team that needed to sell tickets to have said players. As I said earlier I think if you had a team where your worst player made 4 million it would be a solid team. Similar to Vegas their 1st year. I forget that the exact numbers but given teams could only protect 8 or 9 guys, in theory The worst player on Vegas would be 9th best on any team.

It doesn't matter if we have 1 star player or 4 star players.

What matters is the efficiency/value in the contract.

Out of the big 4 contracts the Leafs signed, only 1 was above EV.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Say Toronto sells nothing at all, just simply offers a bit less than a competitor, knowing that Marner would stand to lose millions each year in endorsements going with the competitor. All else equal, how exactly do you see that playing out?

You don't know that Marner would lose "millions each year in endorsements". The potential difference may be a consideration, but as I noted, leaving Toronto also comes with financial benefits that would also be a consideration. All else equal, from a purely financial perspective, a player would likely prefer to play somewhere where he is paid more, has lower taxes on that pay, and doesn't have to be as dependent on extra work for the same after tax income.

 

[Confucius]

You don't know that Marner would lose "millions each year in endorsements". The potential difference may be a consideration, but as I noted, leaving Toronto also comes with financial benefits that would also be a consideration. All else equal, from a purely financial perspective, a player would likely prefer to play somewhere where he is paid more, has lower taxes on that pay, and doesn't have to be as dependent on extra work for the same after tax income.

Don’t know how much the guys get for endorsements but if I had to guess I’d say it is quite a bit less than millions. After all these aren’t Michael Jordan Nike size deals.

 

[Skullz]

Unless it’s a discount, it makes no sense. If we lose early again, we will (hopefully) realize that we need to change.

If we don’t, an extension likely makes sense.

I am not liking these Tavares numbers floating around. It will need to be a lot less than what I’ve heard for me to be happy with it.

 

[Confucius]

Unless it’s a discount, it makes no sense. If we lose early again, we will (hopefully) realize that we need to change.

If we don’t, an extension likely makes sense.

I am not liking these Tavares numbers floating around. It will need to be a lot less than what I’ve heard for me to be happy with it.

It’s going to be interesting for sure, put aside how much either player signs for. Mitch averages less than 20 points a season more than JT. Mitch is a star defensively, JT is a star at winning board battles plus a top 10 faceoff man. How much more is Mitch worth per season? I’d say he is worth 4 million more.

 

[thewave]

You don't know that Marner would lose "millions each year in endorsements". The potential difference may be a consideration, but as I noted, leaving Toronto also comes with financial benefits that would also be a consideration. All else equal, from a purely financial perspective, a player would likely prefer to play somewhere where he is paid more, has lower taxes on that pay, and doesn't have to be as dependent on extra work for the same after tax income.

According to an article from August 2021, Marner generates an estimated $4.5 million from his endorsement portfolio, which includes partnerships with CCM, Adidas, CIBC, BioSteel, and more

He is one of the highest paid in the league. His brand is all about making money. Not winning

Mark my words. In 30yrs time there will be more literature on this guys working the media, PR, endorsements and about Paul in the background than about his NHL career for playing. I know this.

 

[Confucius]

According to an article from August 2021, Marner generates an estimated $4.5 million from his endorsement portfolio, which includes partnerships with CCM, Adidas, CIBC, BioSteel, and more

He is one of the highest paid in the league. His brand is all about making money. Not winning

Mark my words. In 30yrs time there will be more literature on this guys working the media, PR, endorsements and about Paul in the background than about his NHL career for playing. I know this.

Amazing, well I’d be putting the screws to them, 10 million. lol!

 

[thewave]

Amazing, well I’d be putting the screws to them, 10 million. lol!

Even matching WN would be kind of fair. He does stand to lose a ton of money going to the USA where is brand is far less reaching.

The people that want to swap Rantanen for Marner have their head on straight.

This is in no way an attempt to say he isnt a good player. He is a very good player overall.

 

[Dekes For Days]

According to an article from August 2021, Marner generates an estimated $4.5 million from his endorsement portfolio, which includes partnerships with CCM, Adidas, CIBC, BioSteel, and more

All sorts of crazy estimates are thrown out, but Forbes last year estimated him at 2m, and reports were that Tkachuk (a Florida player) had the most endorsements in the league. There are lots of players in places other than Toronto that get endorsement income; which again, is still another job.