Sidney Crosby would have just as many art ross trophies as mcdavid if not for injuries?

[SEALBound]

He would probably have more without the injuries in his prime. I would say for sure a Hart and AR in 2011.

But who knows. I mean, we could say this about Lemieux as well. Hell, if Bossy had played as many as Wayne, would he be the goal scorer leader? Maybe.

 

[JJ68]

Jagr would have 8

 

[Video Nasty]

10-11, as mentioned above, Sid was destroying the league at the halfway point. 1.61 PPG and the next closest guy was Sedin at 1.27, a massive gap that wasn't getting much smaller had Sid not taken that head/neck shot. Was easily the most dominant I've ever seen 87. I feel very confident Sid would have swept all the major awards had he played in even say 70-75 games.

Small correction here. Stamkos was 1 goal and 10 points behind Crosby through 41 games that season, so that’s a 1.37 PPG for the closest guy.

Let’s also not forget that 2010-2011 was a hot streak for Crosby that he laughably gets projected full credit for. He was fairly mortal for the first 13 games, collecting 15 points. Then yes, the brilliant 25 game point streak of 50 points, which was stopped before he got concussed.

If Stamkos had his season end at the halfway mark, he’d be projected for 60 goals and 112 points, rather than the 45 and 91 he ended up.

Reality still matters. We don’t truly know how an alternative timeline of Crosby playing the full season ends up affecting things.

 

[solidmotion]

Small correction here. Stamkos was 1 goal and 10 points behind Crosby through 41 games that season, so that’s a 1.37 PPG for the closest guy.

Let’s also not forget that 2010-2011 was a hot streak for Crosby that he laughably gets projected full credit for. He was fairly mortal for the first 13 games, collecting 15 points. Then yes, the brilliant 25 game point streak of 50 points, which was stopped before he got concussed.

If Stamkos had his season end at the halfway mark, he’d be projected for 60 goals and 112 points, rather than the 45 and 91 he ended up.

Reality still matters. We don’t truly know how an alternative timeline of Crosby playing the full season ends up affecting things.

fair enough but there is no plausible scenario in which he doesn't win the art ross.

i for one like to think he would have continued at something close to that 1.61 ppg pace. it would have been his career year, like mcdavid's 2023. the fact that he came back and played at such a high level the next year, and the year after that, suggests that this is possible/likely.

but even if he had fallen back to something like 1.3 ppg (a little under his average around that time) he still would have won the art ross by 15 points.

even if he'd fallen all the way down to 1 ppg (far below his career average) he still would have won by a couple points.

 

[Video Nasty]

fair enough but there is no plausible scenario in which he doesn't win the art ross.

i for one like to think he would have continued at something close to that 1.61 ppg pace. it would have been his career year, like mcdavid's 2023. the fact that he came back and played at such a high level the next year, and the year after that, suggests that this is possible/likely.

but even if he had fallen back to something like 1.3 ppg (a little under his average around that time) he still would have won the art ross by 15 points.

even if he'd fallen all the way down to 1 ppg (far below his career average) he still would have won by a couple points.

I agree. He almost certainly wins. It’s one of the ones I would say is something of a lock. Just point out that it’s often forgotten that Stamkos was right there in goals and had a nice pace going for himself, before playing all the games.

 

[daver]

If the point of the OP is to argue that Crosby was on the same level offensively as McDavid, that argument can easily be made without going into the realm of the hypothetical:

- Their first Rosses were of equal strength at about the same age.

- Crosby won his 2nd Art Ross by the same % amount as McDavid's peak season in 22/23. (I cannot give McDavid's 20/21 56 game season in the CDN division full value statistically)

- Thru ten seasons, the gap between them and the average of the next four best PPGs is identical (21%):

Crosby - 1.36
Malkin - 1.20
Ovechkin - 1.18
Thornton - 1.08
Datysyuk - 1.05

McDavid - 1.52
Kucherov - 1.26
MacKinnon - 1.26
Draisaitl - 1.26
Panarin 1.16


Full value to McDavid for playing at that PPG for more games but also it needs to be recognized that Crosby's PPG captures more of his pre-peak games than it does of his peak games. I would also argue that lower scoring during DPE 2.0 ('11 to '17) brought the elite scorers closer to the pack given the higher priority for defensive hockey vs. the much more open brand since '18.

 

[Nathaniel]

Small correction here. Stamkos was 1 goal and 10 points behind Crosby through 41 games that season, so that’s a 1.37 PPG for the closest guy.

Let’s also not forget that 2010-2011 was a hot streak for Crosby that he laughably gets projected full credit for. He was fairly mortal for the first 13 games, collecting 15 points. Then yes, the brilliant 25 game point streak of 50 points, which was stopped before he got concussed.

If Stamkos had his season end at the halfway mark, he’d be projected for 60 goals and 112 points, rather than the 45 and 91 he ended up.

Reality still matters. We don’t truly know how an alternative timeline of Crosby playing the full season ends up affecting things.

The thing is crosby came back to dominate the 12-13 13-14 seasons. Another thing crosby was 23. A couple years off of scoring 120 in 79 which is 125 per 82. I dont know why its some crazy idea that crosby was going to score at least 120-130 that year. He had already proven 120 point ability. Crosby was a 110 point player from 2008-2010 from 20-22 but like most players hit a new gear which he still had during the 12-13 season.

 

[bobbyking]

Well, did injury prevent him from beating Jamie Benn?

bee sting

 

[TheLegend27]

The thing is crosby came back to dominate the 12-13 13-14 seasons. Another thing crosby was 23. A couple years off of scoring 120 in 79 which is 125 per 82. I dont know why its some crazy idea that crosby was going to score at least 120-130 that year. He had already proven 120 point ability. Crosby was a 110 point player from 2008-2010 from 20-22 but like most players hit a new gear which he still had during the 12-13 season.

His 120 campaign in 07 was fueled by a high scoring environment right after a lockout, but mainly a power play environment.

07: 2.88 GPG, 4.85 PPO
11: 2.73 GPG 3.54 PPO
12: 2.66 GPG 3.31 PPO

61 of his Points were from the power play, so I doubt it’s a good comparison to use for 10-11, 11-12 seasons which were a much lower scoring with less PP opportunities. Crosby was somehow about to score more points in an environment that is much lower in GPG and much lower PP opportunities, while everyone else’s numbers declined from 07-10 seasons. Not to Mention the drop off from 1.6 pace between 11’-13 to 1.3 in 14’ once he actually played a full season. I haven’t noticed a style of play change that would cause a dip in PPG. His shot, passing, IQ, skating, backhand, puck handling were all the same from prior seasons yet his PPG declined once he played a full season. No leg break that caused him to lose speed, no back injuries that usually destroy a player’s production. More evidence of a hot streak.