Sidney Crosby vs Jean Beliveau

[slapKing]

Who is the greater hockey player?

Crosby:
2 Harts
2 Art Rosses
2 Rockets
2 Conn Smythes
3 Ted Lindsays
3 Stanley Cups
4 First team all stars
4 Second team all stars
486 goals
839 assists
1325 points
191 playoff points

Beliveau:
2 Harts
1 Art Ross
2 Rockets (Retro)
1 Conn Smythe (would have won 1 more is the trophy existed earlier)
10 Stanley Cups
6 First team all stars
4 Second team all stars
507 goals
712 assists
1219 points
176 playoff points

Click to read more...

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

How many people are alive who've actually watched both of these players and know how to use a computer?

 

[filinski77]

Crosby.

Overall they are fairly close in hart voting, point finishes, and beliveau with a decent lead in goal finishes. But being top-10 in a 6 team Canadian league is not the same as consistent top-10 finishes in an international league, which is why Crosby's accomplishments are greater imo.

3 cups in a bigger more competitive league is just as impressive as 10 in a 6 team league on a dynasty. Plus, it's a team achievement so it shouldn't matter regardless.

 

[Killer Orcas]

How many people are alive who've actually watched both of these players and know how to use a computer?

I agree and all the people that post here are majority 20 something Crosby will win. To answer OP I have no idea myself can't say watched both.

 

[filinski77]

I agree and all the people that post here are majority 20 something Crosby will win. To answer OP I have no idea myself can't say watched both.

That line of thinking means we will never be able to compare players in an all-time sense. The best we can do is look at the stats and try to consider as much context as possible.

 

[Killer Orcas]

That line of thinking means we will never be able to compare players in an all-time sense. The best we can do is look at the stats and try to consider as much context as possible.

Well to be honest how can you compare players from different era's if you never watched them play? Also I think it's kinda hard to compare players from different era's regardless in my opinion as there are just too many variables in play. Sure we can have opinions on who we believe to be better but that's all they are really. The only thing concrete and not subjective is stats but stats don't always give the full picture.

 

[DitchMarner]

That line of thinking means we will never be able to compare players in an all-time sense. The best we can do is look at the stats and try to consider as much context as possible.

Agreed.

How many people here watched World War II or knew George Washington personally? You can definitely learn about things from accounts and records and then make your own comparisons.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

To those who *have* seen Beliveau play, why is he ranked higher than Crosby? Legitimately asking because just based on trophy case and where they were ranked among their peers during their peaks, what does he have over Crosby?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Well to be honest how can you compare players from different era's if you never watched them play? Also I think it's kinda hard to compare players from different era's regardless in my opinion as there are just too many variables in play. Sure we can have opinions on who we believe to be better but that's all they are really. The only thing concrete and not subjective is stats but stats don't always give the full picture.

How they performed vs their peers.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Crosby.

 

[Gurglesons]

To those who *have* seen Beliveau play, why is he ranked higher than Crosby? Legitimately asking because just based on trophy case and where they were ranked among their peers during their peaks, what does he have over Crosby?

Let's be honest. People saw Crosby on a poll and voted the other way.

It'll be really interesting to come back to HFBoards in 15-20 years and see how Crosby is talked about if the world is still around.

 

[Gee Wally]

How many people are alive who've actually watched both of these players and know how to use a computer?

you’re looking at one.
Answer , as much as I hate all things Habs dating back to Original 6, is The Big Guy. Beliveau.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

How they performed vs their peers.

Problem is, that their peers are much more limited, thus casting doubt on the comparison. For instance, a player from the original 6 teams that only was compared to 120 players per season, mostly from Canada vs. a player today who is compared to > 600 players from all over the world every season.

I'm not casting doubt on players from a past generation, just that comparisons are almost impossible given the differences in the number of players, the equipment, the goalies, the defensemen, etc....

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Very similar resumes but I'll give it to the player who plays in an international league and a much more advanced time as the tie breaker

 

[Killer Orcas]

How they performed vs their peers.

Peers you could I agree but I personally find it very hard to compare players of different era's myself. One thing I'd like to add is people like saying current players are much more talented faster bigger etc. However if these current players played in past era's and vice versa both era's would be playing on level field. McDavid's fancy equipment and training methods wouldn't be available to him in 1960 and same goes for Orr now imagine how much better he could be with today's advanced tech. That's why I don't agree with people comparing players of different era's and usually saying today's players are so much better. They might have more skills but the equipment helps with that. Imagine Ovie playing with a stick from 1970 I doubt he's nearly as good as he is now. There is just too many variables for myself to compare them. Just my opinion I might be wrong who knows. Cheers

 

[Gee Wally]

Let's be honest. People saw Crosby on a poll and voted the other way.

It'll be really interesting to come back to HFBoards in 15-20 years and see how Crosby is talked about if the world is still around.

youre on the right track. Ive been here since 1998.
That’s exactly how it goes. The generation that has seen will most likely lean to players of their generation. In 20 years I probably will be gone. And many that will be say 25 to 30 years old will go with Crosby wasnt all that great because…….and the new hot playerx is the goat.
Just the way it goes.
Im just happy I got see ‘em all in person. Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Beliveau, Hull, Lemieux…
From Original 6 to now Original 32.
Been a good run.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

you’re looking at one.
Answer , as much as I hate all things Habs dating back to Original 6, is The Big Guy. Beliveau.

the problem is, at your age, we don't trust your memory!

(says a guy who is probably close to your age).

 

[Gee Wally]

the problem is, at your age, we don't trust your memory!

(says a guy who is probably close to your age).

at my age I dont give a f*** about what anyone trusts.


Im more concerned with always knowing where the nearest rest room is….

 

[Hockeyholic]

Beliveau.

Two more first team all stars than Crosby.

Known for leadership and being such a gentleman.

10 Cups. Pivotal in all of them.

I'm sure some will argue Crosby has stiffer competition. But it is what it is.

 

[jetsforever]

Crosby.

Overall they are fairly close in hart voting, point finishes, and beliveau with a decent lead in goal finishes. But being top-10 in a 6 team Canadian league is not the same as consistent top-10 finishes in an international league, which is why Crosby's accomplishments are greater imo.

3 cups in a bigger more competitive league is just as impressive as 10 in a 6 team league on a dynasty. Plus, it's a team achievement so it shouldn't matter regardless.

Yeah in general with similar stats I think you go with the more recent player, since it's a reasonable assumption that the league is steadily improving over time

 

[reino]

Very close but voted Crosby because he's by far classier

 

[daver]

Beliveau.

Two more first team all stars than Crosby.

Known for leadership and being such a gentleman.

10 Cups. Pivotal in all of them.

I'm sure some will argue Crosby has stiffer competition. But it is what it is.

Lot more easier to win All-Stars and Cups in a six team league.

Not sure how Beliveau was "pivotal" in 1959 when he played 3 games and scored five points.

Pound for pound, Crosby was easily more "pivotal" in the Pens four Cups runs than Beliveau was for the Habs.

Crosby reached a higher ceiling offensively than Beliveau, all things considered (e.g. vs. their peers, league size, PPG in injured seasons). Beliveau has the better signature regular season and playoff run but then it's Crosby mainly after that winning the elite elite season and playoff run battle.

It is very close between the two. Both deserve to be with the handful of players considered the #5 player all-time.

 

[Voight]

I've always found Beliveau overrated. Obviously had a great career, but never agreed with people who have him at 5th best.

 

[ted2019]

Beliveau.

 

[Love]

youre on the right track. Ive been here since 1998.
That’s exactly how it goes. The generation that has seen will most likely lean to players of their generation. In 20 years I probably will be gone. And many that will be say 25 to 30 years old will go with Crosby wasnt all that great because…….and the new hot playerx is the goat.
Just the way it goes.
Im just happy I got see ‘em all in person. Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Beliveau, Hull, Lemieux…
From Original 6 to now Original 32.
Been a good run.

I also think there’s some who have watched Crosby and just decided early in his career that they didn’t like him. Maybe they chose Ovechkin in the Crosby/Ovechkin debates, maybe they didn’t like his early career antics, maybe they think he’s generally overrated. The point I’m making is everyone has biases and there’s a certain number of people who will vote against Crosby no matter who the other player is.

It’s the same with someone like LeBron. It doesn’t matter how good he is or how much he’s done. There will always be people like Skip Bayless who will discredit him no matter what. He could drop 50 points in the finals to win the championship and the next day some will say how Jordan would’ve done it better. It’s always the case with these elite athletes that they have “haters” and Crosby is certainly no exception.