Sidney Crosby Top 5 player of all time
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I'm not saying Jagr belongs ahead of Crosby, but the way Jagr was able to dominate scoring during the height of the dead puck era was certainly something that is very hard to replicate. He was helped by Lemieux at various times, sure, but he was certainly the best forward for a time.
Now does the lack of winning sans Lemieux/Stevens/etc in the early 90s hurt him? And was he almost purposefully hurting his team's case? I don't know. But he certainly put up some seriously impressive numbers given the environment.
Kranix
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Sentinel
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The only "cancer" he was to was Washington. He is still very much beloved in Pittsburgh, NYC, and Omsk. His present journeyman's teams sign him readily. His Art Rosses speak for themselves. He won the OG on an underdog team. Now let's talk about his Harts. I maintain that in the DPE / during Jagr's five Art Rosses Crosby would've won exactly ZERO Harts. In 94-95 Lindros was the League's darling. All of Crosby's assists and hard work would not have impressed the voters, when Lindros was the raging bull. 96-97 and 97-98 Hasek played at the peak level that Crosby never sniffed. 98-99 was Jagr's year. 99-00 was the year when every big forward was injured, so Pronger won. This is one year when I can sort of see Crosby snatching it from Pronger, but that's a big if. But he sure as hell ain't taking it from 00-01 Sakic. Just like Jagr was not taking the Conn Smythes away from 91 and 92 Lemieux.
Sentinel
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Why stop there? Make him #1 and be done with it.
P. S. Gordie Howe is rolling in his grave. Bobby Orr is shuddering.
Cyclones Rock
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Howe had 6 Hart Trophies. Eddie Shore had 4. Crosby has 2. Ovechkin has 3.
Cosby is 101 goals away from being in the top 50 all time. He needs 143 points to break into the top 50 point getters.
Anybody with any sense of hockey history wouldn't even mention him in the same breath as Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr. I'd bet most posters here wouldn't know that Orr led the league in scoring twice as a defenseman. Crosby has only led the league twice in scoring and with the emergence of McDavid, he'll likely never win another Ross Trophy.
He's only led the league in goals once.
Crosby is a very good player-top 25 no doubt. By the time everything is said and done, he might be a top 10 player. But this top 5 already conversation is, well, absurd.
Cosby is 101 goals away from being in the top 50 all time. He needs 143 points to break into the top 50 point getters.
Anybody with any sense of hockey history wouldn't even mention him in the same breath as Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr. I'd bet most posters here wouldn't know that Orr led the league in scoring twice as a defenseman. Crosby has only led the league twice in scoring and with the emergence of McDavid, he'll likely never win another Ross Trophy.
He's only led the league in goals once.
Crosby is a very good player-top 25 no doubt. By the time everything is said and done, he might be a top 10 player. But this top 5 already conversation is, well, absurd.
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaa
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I love Ge Howe. I had the pleasure of meeting the , and it is still one of the best moments of my life. He is a true legend.
With all due respect, Sidney Cosby has done things Gordie never did and never could have done.
Most people here never saw Gordie play, certainly not in his prime, let's be honest.
He was a good player with unreal longevity. He was no Crosby.
1. Gretzky
2. Mario
3. Orr
4. Crosby
In fifteen years, no one will even question this once the "I hate him because he's a whiner (ie - he owns my team)" dies down.
With all due respect, Sidney Cosby has done things Gordie never did and never could have done.
Most people here never saw Gordie play, certainly not in his prime, let's be honest.
He was a good player with unreal longevity. He was no Crosby.
1. Gretzky
2. Mario
3. Orr
4. Crosby
In fifteen years, no one will even question this once the "I hate him because he's a whiner (ie - he owns my team)" dies down.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaa
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You realize the Gordie and Orr both played when there were 6 teams and 98% of the league was Canadian, right?
That kind of skews those award numbers you give out. The game is now international, and there are teams where people never even knew what hockey was when Gordie was playing.
I am old school, a purist, a historian. Above all, I am a realist. Do you think Gordie was so masterful that he would have been the MVP 6 times in a 30-team league?
You are kidding yourself if you think so. Gretzky, yes. Mario, yes. Gordie Howe? Sorry, Mr. Hockey. I love you, but no way.
Nathaniel Skywalker
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The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
This is hilarious. Learn the game my friend.
21 consecutive top 10 point finishes
6 Hart Trophies
6 Art Ross Trophies
5 Rockets
Was the most feared player in the league both in a traditional hockey sense and physically. Maybe Lindros for a couple years before the injuries was the best hockey player and most feared player at the same time, but that is incredibly rare. Howe was that for at least a decade. Incredible two-way player to boot, perhaps the most complete player in the history of the game. But sure some pace per game stuff. By the way when combining his WHA stats and NHL stats and giving Gretzky the same benefit I think they are one or two career goals apart.
Gordie Howe is on the Mount Rushmore of Hockey for a reason and belongs in the same breath as Orr, Lemieux and Gretzky. AKA demonstrably better than the player titled in this thread. In a class of their own. Give me some sort of PPG statistic though I am sure, makes sense to put up against the most rugged and astonishingly durable superstar to grace the game...
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Nathaniel Skywalker
DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
- Oct 18, 2013
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Learn the game my friend.
21 consecutive top 10 point finishes
6 Hart Trophies
6 Art Ross Trophies
5 Rockets
Was the most feared player in the league both in a traditional hockey sense and physically. Maybe Lindros for a couple years has before the injuries was the best hockey player and most feared player. Howe was that for decades. Incredible two-way player to boot, perhaps the most complete player in the history of the game.
All in a 6 team league. Sorry not as impressive as it looks. Easily not better than lemieux
Hank Plank
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Nemesis Prime
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I get it, HF loves Crosby. You're all willing to bend over or get on your knees for the guy, but hockey did exist before the 2006/07 Season.
Let's refer to this reasonable post:
Let's refer to this reasonable post:
stu the grim reaper
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- Jul 3, 2002
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youre begging the question a little bit. so crosby won b2b smythes. proves that awards are not infinitely meaningful
He's nothing more than the best forward of his time.
stu the grim reaper
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So what if gretzky had all the benefits growing up that crosby had? Instead of having to learn it all on his own on a homemade rink
cupcrazyman
Stupid Sexy Flanders
Since Someone mentioned Messier
6 Stanley Cups
3 Canada Cups
World Cup Silver
World Champ Silver
15 All Star Games
1 Conn Smythe
2 Harts
2 Lesters
4 1st Team AS
1 2nd Team AS
694 Goals
1193 Assists
1887pts
+210 Career
109 playoff goals
186 playoff Assists
295 playoff points
+50 playoff
Cyclones Rock
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Learn the game my friend.
21 consecutive top 10 point finishes
6 Hart Trophies
6 Art Ross Trophies
5 Rockets
Was the most feared player in the league both in a traditional hockey sense and physically. Maybe Lindros for a couple years before the injuries was the best hockey player and most feared player at the same time, but that is incredibly rare. Howe was that for at least a decade. Incredible two-way player to boot, perhaps the most complete player in the history of the game. But sure some pace per game stuff. By the way when combining his WHA stats and NHL stats and giving Gretzky the same benefit I think they are one or two career goals apart.
Gordie Howe is on the Mount Rushmore of Hockey for a reason and belongs in the same breath as Orr, Lemieux and Gretzky. AKA demonstrably better than the player titled in this thread. In a class of their own. Give me some sort of PPG statistic though I am sure, makes sense to put up against the most rugged and astonishingly durable superstar to grace the game...
Great stuff
I got a chance to watch Howe in the WHA from 1975-79. He was in his late 40s/early 50s and he was still a bad ass. He would intimidate guys half his age. I will admit that having his entire team ready to go after anyone who touched him did probably embolden Gordie a bit
He also had a 96 point season when he was freaking 50. 9th in the league.
People who are dismissive of Gordie Howe show their lack of historical perspective. Then again, there are more than a few out there who believe that science started with the smart phone.
Pick87your71Poison
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