SI hockey writer with complete rip job on Sweeney/B's

[bp13]

I think Don Sweeney can do a multitude of things wrong. If he goes into the season without adding a top 2-4 D, he's a failure, no matter how the picks and free agent signings pan out. I may be more forgiving of the Hamilton trade than you, but the D still sucks, and I'll call him out on it if it does not improve.

How's that for having my head up his ass?

The notion that he has his head up his ass if he doesn't add another top 4 dman is ONLY potentially true if he actually cares about this season though, right? What if he doesn't, and or, shouldn't? I'd argue this is clearly a "bridge" year. We have kids who need ice, some new guys who need acclimating, some vets who need to rebound from injuries/down seasons.

If you can't get a real top 4 without overpaying, play the year out. Find out what you've got in Pasta, Spooner, Hayes, Connolly, Trotman, C. Miller. Get Kelly off the books, maybe move another vet. Get things moving in the right direction again and if need be, use the deadline or next offseason to bolster the top half of the defense.

I'm not necessarily excited about that plan, but I like it a lot more than committing big money or term to the likes of Franson or Erhoff.

 

[jgatie]

The notion that he has his head up his ass if he doesn't add another top 4 dman is ONLY potentially true if he actually cares about this season though, right?

You misread. The OP formerly claimed I had my head up Sweeney's ass.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I loved the B's draft.

I'm all for the Lucic trade.

They outright crushed on the Jones deal.

And I don't think Dougie is a #1 and maybe not a top pairing dman.

So overall I'm pretty happy with the job Sweeney has done.

However, he should have gotten more for Hamilton for sure.

Dave,

This is pretty much exactly where I am on everything related to the trades. The only move I really question is the Rinaldo deal, and he's making $850k, so it's not a mistake he cannot recover from should it not work out.

My issue with Muir is that given the space/forum he was operating in and the type of article it was, he had no business making some of the claims he did. If he had said that Sweeney was the greatest GM in modern NHL history and that he had set the B's up for years of prosperity, I would have expected him to flesh it out as well. He just threw a lot of heavy duty stuff out there and didn't back it up.

If a poster did that here, we would be all over him/her, and the people here aren't getting paid professionally to give their opinions about hockey, so I don't get the whole soccer mom thing. It's not that I cannot appreciate a different opinion, it's that he didn't back it up.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

See DKH, where you go wrong is assuming that I'm bashing Sweeney. I'm not. I never have been. I've been bashing the sheep here who offer no critical thinking and accept every move he makes as if it's great, without question and without fail, every time. Those people who are complaining about some random writer being mean to Donnie Sweeney are pathetic, IMO. That's who I'm bashing, just to be clear. The irony at the end of it all is that the author isn't really wrong. Sure he generalized things down, but the off season for the Bruins has been really questionable. But sure, you can generalize it as being negative and dismiss it like you are. That works too.

Lonnie,

You are being very kind. Just my two cents, but if Muir had spun this positively, for some reason, I don't see you being this forgiving towards him

He criticizes the Hamilton deal, calling it inexplicable, which is fine (even though I don't think it was THAT hard to fathom), but then glosses over the Lucic trade and classifies him as a "cap casualty". The only reason I can see him doing that is because saying something positive does not fit what he was going for with the B's review. He ignores something because it doesn't fit his agenda.

A poster does that here and gets crucified, but Muir does it, people criticize, and we are a bunch of soft soccer Moms (I prefer the hard-bodied ones myself)??

 

[LSCII]

Rinaldo, yeah, just an "inexplicable" move.

I'm all for getting a guy you think is going to help the team be tougher. I really am. I just thought the price for Rinaldo was a bit high, but at least he'll be entertaining in between suspensions...

 

[DKH]

Lonnie,

You are being very kind. Just my two cents, but if Muir had spun this positively, for some reason, I don't see you being this forgiving towards him

He criticizes the Hamilton deal, calling it inexplicable, which is fine (even though I don't think it was THAT hard to fathom), but then glosses over the Lucic trade and classifies him as a "cap casualty". The only reason I can see him doing that is because saying something positive does not fit what he was going for with the B's review. He ignores something because it doesn't fit his agenda.

A poster does that here and gets crucified, but Muir does it, people criticize, and we are a bunch of soft soccer Moms (I prefer the hard-bodied ones myself)??

Glad it's not just me thinking posts I make here are deboned and snarky remarks on new posts and the cherry on top is 'oh and your picking on me I'm the victim.'

 

[JOKER 192]

I think the price for Rinaldo was higher than that player warrants but he was probably not being shopped, so that would explain that.If someone came to you to buy your car that was not for sale, you probably would sell it if that person over payed, that's probably what happened here. What is harder to explain is what we want with a player like him. I'm dying to see how this works out, surely management sees something in him that most of us don't, I'm gonna let it play out but even if it doesn't workout you put him on waivers, someone will bite. If Scott can get a deal in today's NHL, some one has be interested in Rinaldo.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Lonnie,

You are being very kind. Just my two cents, but if Muir had spun this positively, for some reason, I don't see you being this forgiving towards him

He criticizes the Hamilton deal, calling it inexplicable, which is fine (even though I don't think it was THAT hard to fathom), but then glosses over the Lucic trade and classifies him as a "cap casualty". The only reason I can see him doing that is because saying something positive does not fit what he was going for with the B's review. He ignores something because it doesn't fit his agenda.

A poster does that here and gets crucified, but Muir does it, people criticize, and we are a bunch of soft soccer Moms (I prefer the hard-bodied ones myself)??

What I think many posters are missing is that losing Hamilton could dwarf all else that has occurred so far in the Sweeney era.

 

[Artemis]

Lonnie,

You are being very kind. Just my two cents, but if Muir had spun this positively, for some reason, I don't see you being this forgiving towards him

He criticizes the Hamilton deal, calling it inexplicable, which is fine (even though I don't think it was THAT hard to fathom), but then glosses over the Lucic trade and classifies him as a "cap casualty". The only reason I can see him doing that is because saying something positive does not fit what he was going for with the B's review. He ignores something because it doesn't fit his agenda.

A poster does that here and gets crucified, but Muir does it, people criticize, and we are a bunch of soft soccer Moms (I prefer the hard-bodied ones myself)??

That's the hallmark of lazy journalism - create an agenda and choose what fits it. Hyperbole is a Good Thing because it encourages clicks. Cripes, I work in the business - I see it all the time.

The best North American hockey reporter is without question Sean McIndoe (Down Goes Brown), with Justin Bourne up there too. They know and love the game and are agenda-free, and McIndoe has the added bonus of being hilarious. I don't always agree with them, but that doesn't mean I dismiss or get angry at what they say.

 

[dickiedunnwrotethis]

Like there is literally no wrong side here. I agree with everyone, which is just rare, I'm actually at a loss for words.

here is my take on it.

The team sucked last year, 96 points or not. Injuries or not. Had Chia done this the right way after 2013 I think we'd still be a power.

Hamilton is polarizing. Coupled with the Seguin deal two summers ago, it would appear we have traded what should have been two future franchise cornerstones. I feel that way about Seguin, not so much Hamilton. I can see why people should have said tough **** and make him sweat or hold out for more current talent. I can also see people saying get the picks in a great draft.. What's obvious is the organization from the president to Gm to coach didn't love him, right or wrong.

I literally didn't care who was traded this summer. Wanted a new "look" . IMO that look on paper is FAR WORSE than the team looked on paper last season. Maybe we get a real workmanlike team, that stands up for each other..

I see a less talented team...but I see a sweet cache of prospects I'm high on, two probable top 15 picks again next year, and guys like Spooner, Pasta and Connolly that I can really root for . Likeable players.

Feels like 2007-08 again and I'm ok with that... It's a breath of fresh air actually.

Great post. Your last sentence expresses exactly how I feel. It's like I can breathe again.

I also appreciate the reasonable tone. The amount of vitriol here is starting to remind me of Sayre's Law. To paraphrase: The battles are so bitter because the stakes are so low.

It's a puff piece from SI. It doesn't reflect at all my new found optimism for the Bruin's future, but I'm not p****d because, well, it's a puff piece from SI. Similarly, if you hate the moves and direction of Sweeney why use a puff piece from SI to bolster your argument? It's a puff piece from SI! There are plenty of well reasoned arguments from intelligent posters on this forum, posters who loathe the most recent moves but also provide infinitely more depth of thinking.

 

[JOKER 192]

That's the hallmark of lazy journalism - create an agenda and choose what fits it. Hyperbole is a Good Thing because it encourages clicks. Cripes, I work in the business - I see it all the time.

The best North American hockey reporter is without question Sean McIndoe (Down Goes Brown), with Justin Bourne up there too. They know and love the game and are agenda-free, and McIndoe has the added bonus of being hilarious. I don't always agree with them, but that doesn't mean I dismiss or get angry at what they say.

Where do I find these guys, sound like a hoot.

 

[LSCII]

Lonnie,

You are being very kind. Just my two cents, but if Muir had spun this positively, for some reason, I don't see you being this forgiving towards him

He criticizes the Hamilton deal, calling it inexplicable, which is fine (even though I don't think it was THAT hard to fathom), but then glosses over the Lucic trade and classifies him as a "cap casualty". The only reason I can see him doing that is because saying something positive does not fit what he was going for with the B's review. He ignores something because it doesn't fit his agenda.

A poster does that here and gets crucified, but Muir does it, people criticize, and we are a bunch of soft soccer Moms (I prefer the hard-bodied ones myself)??

See, I don't really care what the media says because I don't go to traditional places like the globe, herald, SI, and ESPN for hockey info. Their coverage typically sucks, and is elementary by default. If I want to know what's happening with the B's, I come here and a handful of other hockey related sites because I know the info will be far more accurate and more in depth.

Now onto the cap casualty piece that people are worked up over. He said Lucic was a cap casualty, but like a few people have pointed out, it doesn't make sense because the B's retained salary. And that's true for this year. But the cap ramifications of a long term, high dollar deal would have been a cap problem for Boston, so while Muir didn't get into the detail fully, he is technically correct. Lucic being a cap casualty was never about this year. It was about next year and beyond because he's going to get a monster deal, and the B's have other guys they need to resign as well. I think that's what Muir was getting at, even if he did a half assed job on it.

 

[LSCII]

What I think many posters are missing is that losing Hamilton could dwarf all else that has occurred so far in the Sweeney era.

Can't say I disagree with this at all. Reminds me of the Brad McCrimmon all over again...

 

[JOKER 192]

Can't say I disagree with this at all. Reminds me of the Brad McCrimmon all over again...

He's probably right but it's spilled milk, move on.

 

[LSCII]

He's probably right but it's spilled milk, move on.

Do you recall the Joe Thornton trade? The Kessel trade? The Seguin trade? This is just another in that line, and it will be discussed in painstaking detail every time Hamilton does something good or bad over the course of the his career. It's just how it goes here...

 

[GloryDaze4877]

What I think many posters are missing is that losing Hamilton could dwarf all else that has occurred so far in the Sweeney era.

Or...it could turn out to be no big deal when the B's hit on some of their draftees? Nobody really knows at this point.

See, I don't really care what the media says because I don't go to traditional places like the globe, herald, SI, and ESPN for hockey info. Their coverage typically sucks, and is elementary by default. If I want to know what's happening with the B's, I come here and a handful of other hockey related sites because I know the info will be far more accurate and more in depth.

Now onto the cap casualty piece that people are worked up over. He said Lucic was a cap casualty, but like a few people have pointed out, it doesn't make sense because the B's retained salary. And that's true for this year. But the cap ramifications of a long term, high dollar deal would have been a cap problem for Boston, so while Muir didn't get into the detail fully, he is technically correct. Lucic being a cap casualty was never about this year. It was about next year and beyond because he's going to get a monster deal, and the B's have other guys they need to resign as well. I think that's what Muir was getting at, even if he did a half assed job on it.

The phrase "cap casualty" has a negative connotation, and it implies that Lucic was traded for less than fair value. A "cap casualty" does not return two first round picks and two good prospects. A "cap casualty" is a player a team wants to keep, but cannot afford due to Cap constraints (see Bruins and Iginla, Jarome). Lucic is a player that the B's felt would not be worth the money he was going to demand in the coming years. That is a hockey decision, not a "cap casualty".

 

[JOKER 192]

Do you recall the Joe Thornton trade? The Kessel trade? The Seguin trade? This is just another in that line, and it will be discussed in painstaking detail every time Hamilton does something good or bad over the course of the his career. It's just how it goes here...

Unfortunately, that is how it goes here, as one poster so eloquently put it on these boards, I got over crying over spilled milk when I was 5.............don't remember who it was but I prescribe to that point of view.

 

[jgatie]

Unfortunately, that is how it goes here, as one poster so eloquently put it on these boards, I got over crying over spilled milk when I was 5.............don't remember who it was but I prescribe to that point of view.

I believe that was me.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=99979031&highlight=milk#post99979031

 

[JOKER 192]

I believe that was me.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=99979031&highlight=milk#post99979031

So it was, bravo ..... even though it was way back in March it stuck with me because we so little of it around here. I'm a glass half full guy, I don't look back at what could have been I look forward to what could be, as unlikely as it may be.

 

[Artemis]

Where do I find these guys, sound like a hoot.

Both are on Twitter and good follows. Bourne is a writer for The Score. His Twitter handle is @jtbourne His father played for the Islanders and he played college and minor league hockey.

McIndoe writes for Grantland and also posts much of that content on his own blog, downgoesbrown.com. His Twitter handle is @DownGoesBrown

 

[JOKER 192]

Both are on Twitter and good follows. Bourne is a writer for The Score. His Twitter handle is @jtbourne His father played for the Islanders and he played college and minor league hockey.

McIndoe writes for Grantland and also posts much of that content on his own blog, downgoesbrown.com. His Twitter handle is @DownGoesBrown

Thanks

 

[SpitfireIX]

I'm well aware he was an RFA but that still doesn't give Boston all the power. Matter of fact the offersheet is a negotiating tool for the agent, the player and for teams trying to trade/sign for said player. Boston then has the right to make the final decision on whether to keep the player or take compensation which I believe is what you're eluding to but that still leaves the negotiating power in the hands of the player and agent.

Again the most telling aspect of this entire ordeal is the amount Dougie signed for! It just doesn't add up. I was furious with the trade and wanted Sweeney's head until those numbers came out. Then it all started making some sense.

Yes it made sense, Hamilton wasn't asking for a crazy amount as we were lead to believe and Sweeney looked dumb because he received a poor return for a player he could have signed. Why not wait things out and see. If you really want the player in the fold wait a couple of weeks, its one second round pick at the end of the day... Again none of these rookies are going to play this year so take the picks next year if someone signs Dougie to a huge contract. Sweeney was impatient and if you can't see that I can't help you.

The other big issue is that Sweeney didn't talk to many other GMs. There were several report claiming that other GMs were furious that they didn't get a chance to acquire Dougie. Also, if we wanted picks or prospects ASAP how come Tyler Wotherspoon wasn't included in the deal coming back to us?

To throw a little common sense in, who on earth chooses to want out of Boston in favour of high tax, cold-ass winter Calgary... If I had to guess, pure speculation here, the Bruins were adamant on signing Dougie (similar to P.K Subban) to a bridge contract and his camp insisted on the deal he received from Calgary. Sweeney panicked and wanted out of the situation so he traded an asset for less because he couldn't wait things out. He will learn from this when Dougie becomes one of the leagues best and Sweeney is constantly associated with the move. Hopefully it makes him work harder to get the most out of deals and be patient in negotiations in the future.

 

[Mathews28]

Yes it made sense, Hamilton wasn't asking for a crazy amount as we were lead to believe and Sweeney looked dumb because he received a poor return for a player he could have signed. Why not wait things out and see. If you really want the player in the fold wait a couple of weeks, its one second round pick at the end of the day... Again none of these rookies are going to play this year so take the picks next year if someone signs Dougie to a huge contract. Sweeney was impatient and if you can't see that I can't help you.

The other big issue is that Sweeney didn't talk to many other GMs. There were several report claiming that other GMs were furious that they didn't get a chance to acquire Dougie. Also, if we wanted picks or prospects ASAP how come Tyler Wotherspoon wasn't included in the deal coming back to us?

To throw a little common sense in, who on earth chooses to want out of Boston in favour of high tax, cold-ass winter Calgary... If I had to guess, pure speculation here, the Bruins were adamant on signing Dougie (similar to P.K Subban) to a bridge contract and his camp insisted on the deal he received from Calgary. Sweeney panicked and wanted out of the situation so he traded an asset for less because he couldn't wait things out. He will learn from this when Dougie becomes one of the leagues best and Sweeney is constantly associated with the move. Hopefully it makes him work harder to get the most out of deals and be patient in negotiations in the future.

On the bolded statements above:

-If you delay the pics by a year, you add a year to whenever these players might crack the NHL line-up. And you potentially pick in a much less deep draft. The FO wanted the picks this year. They got 'em. Whether they pan out over time, who knows, there's the risk.

-We'll never know the absolute details to what went on, but it's important to remember that when you openly shop a guy, value doesn't necessarily go up. Questions are asked, issues are revealed, and the bidding war some expect doesn't always occur. B's found a partner and made a move. And while some GMs cried the blues, it doesn't mean other GMs weren't spoken to about Hamilton and just have had the sense to keep their mouths shut subsequent to the Calgary deal.

- Sweeney is clearly a man of conviction and I don't think he panicked, and I certainly don't believe he needs to work harder. Bold moves bear risk, bold moves bring criticism. Sweeney weighed the risks and was totally prepared for the backlash.

 

[Bmessy]

All in all I'm not hating what Sweeney is doing.
He should have gotten more for the Hamilton deal. But I like the draft picks. The Beleskey deal could bite them in the ass in a few years. But I like complementary wingers who play hard and do the dirty work and that can apparently finish a little. If he can do produce ~75% of Lucic's game for ~50% of the cost then I like that idea.

The large amount of prospects that have been reloaded in our system the past 2 years is exciting.

I'm not comfortable with our defensive situation. But I haven't been since the 2013 finals. Even then we were fully stocked but our oldies were getting abused.
I am excited to see kids get a chance, but then again with this team and coach it probably won't happen. So ****it. Franson or bust. Maybe Irwin can suprise some people and play top 4

 

[MtlBoxFan]

The author is clearly a baseball fan who knows nothing about hockey. And he's not passionate about the game either.

Sean McIndoe writes downgoesbrown, and excellent hockey blog that is not particularly biased. If anything, he might have a slight maple leafs / senators bias. He's an analytics guy that loves to dig up old NHL artifacts from the 70s and 80s. He's hilarious but if you want to dismiss him as a baseball writer, your loss and your ignorance.