SI hockey writer with complete rip job on Sweeney/B's

[jgatie]

Sean McIndoe writes downgoesbrown, and excellent hockey blog that is not particularly biased. If anything, he might have a slight maple leafs / senators bias. He's an analytics guy that loves to dig up old NHL artifacts from the 70s and 80s. He's hilarious but if you want to dismiss him as a baseball writer, your loss and your ignorance.

Somebody didn't read the thread.

 

[EverettMike]

Sean McIndoe writes downgoesbrown, and excellent hockey blog that is not particularly biased. If anything, he might have a slight maple leafs / senators bias. He's an analytics guy that loves to dig up old NHL artifacts from the 70s and 80s. He's hilarious but if you want to dismiss him as a baseball writer, your loss and your ignorance.

That post was satire. Lonnie wasn't dismissing him.

 

[LSCII]

Sean McIndoe writes downgoesbrown, and excellent hockey blog that is not particularly biased. If anything, he might have a slight maple leafs / senators bias. He's an analytics guy that loves to dig up old NHL artifacts from the 70s and 80s. He's hilarious but if you want to dismiss him as a baseball writer, your loss and your ignorance.

That post was satire. Lonnie wasn't dismissing him.

Exactly. It was tongue in cheek based on the way posters here change their opinions of writers singularly based on the criteria of whether they agree or disagree with the article. They will dismiss a writer's entire resume if the view irks them, and even if they'd agreed with the guy in the past. It's laughable. But in no way was my post serious or dismissive of downgoesbrown or it's author.

 

[EverettMike]

I thought about why this thread was irking me and why I felt the need to comment anyway. I think it's because I saw the same types of condescending dismissals of Muir here that have been far too common on this board since draft day. Mainly that if you are negative about what has happened you are stupid, or have an agenda, or that your opinion is worthless.

Lots of smart hockey people are completely perplexed about what this team has done. They aren't all worthless. Plenty of smart people on this forum love what Sweeney has done, they aren't all worthless. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, which is where I know I have settled into. My initial anger and disgust has ebbed, the amazing return on Looch being a huge part of it, but I still don't like the McQuaid extension, abhor the Rinaldo deal, and think the Dougie situation was mishandled.

I've fully explained why I think these things, not with emotion but actual reasons. I've had emotional posts, but those opinions are based in a certain logic. I'm opinionated, but I pick my opinions carefully. It's why I have almost no opinion on the actual draft picks, I don't know enough to have one. I'm excited by things Kirk and Dom have written about them, but I have no personal opinion because I don't feel like I know enough about the guys picked or not picked.

Being dismissed because someone doesn't like your opinion is crappy, and terms like hater or fanboy are equally dismissive.

I haven't read Muir for a long time, ever since CNNSI ****ed up their page and made it unreadable. Also loathing peter king turned me off the whole site. But I remember him being smart, and I always thought he was fair to the Bruins. Questioning his passion reeks of the same type of awfulness that is too prominent here this summer.

Smart people disagree all the time, and being negative doesn't make you less of a fan or mean what you are saying is any less valid.

Time will sort all of this out, but that doesn't mean posts today need to be so personal.

Eh, I've said my peace. I'm not actually upset or anything, just did some thinking on why this thread irked me in the first place and realized it was just a microcosm of bigger issues at play here.

 

[MtlBoxFan]

That post was satire. Lonnie wasn't dismissing him.

I mis-interpreted the entire situation.

My apologies.

 

[EverettMike]

I mis-interpreted the entire situation.

My apologies.

No biggie.

 

[LSCII]

I mis-interpreted the entire situation.

My apologies.

Happens all the time here, so don't sweat it.

 

[mikelvl]

My issue with his article, and why I initially started the thread, was that I felt his criticism of Sweeney was scathing and over the top. I have no problem with a writer criticizing the Bruins and their moves. But, to me, his mind was closed to the possibility that this might not be the disaster that certain people proclaim it to be. To him, the draft sucked, the trades sucked, Sweeney sucked.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I thought about why this thread was irking me and why I felt the need to comment anyway. I think it's because I saw the same types of condescending dismissals of Muir here that have been far too common on this board since draft day. Mainly that if you are negative about what has happened you are stupid, or have an agenda, or that your opinion is worthless.

Lots of smart hockey people are completely perplexed about what this team has done. They aren't all worthless. Plenty of smart people on this forum love what Sweeney has done, they aren't all worthless. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, which is where I know I have settled into. My initial anger and disgust has ebbed, the amazing return on Looch being a huge part of it, but I still don't like the McQuaid extension, abhor the Rinaldo deal, and think the Dougie situation was mishandled.

I've fully explained why I think these things, not with emotion but actual reasons. I've had emotional posts, but those opinions are based in a certain logic. I'm opinionated, but I pick my opinions carefully. It's why I have almost no opinion on the actual draft picks, I don't know enough to have one. I'm excited by things Kirk and Dom have written about them, but I have no personal opinion because I don't feel like I know enough about the guys picked or not picked.

Being dismissed because someone doesn't like your opinion is crappy, and terms like hater or fanboy are equally dismissive.

I haven't read Muir for a long time, ever since CNNSI ****ed up their page and made it unreadable. Also loathing peter king turned me off the whole site. But I remember him being smart, and I always thought he was fair to the Bruins. Questioning his passion reeks of the same type of awfulness that is too prominent here this summer.

Smart people disagree all the time, and being negative doesn't make you less of a fan or mean what you are saying is any less valid.

Time will sort all of this out, but that doesn't mean posts today need to be so personal.

Eh, I've said my peace. I'm not actually upset or anything, just did some thinking on why this thread irked me in the first place and realized it was just a microcosm of bigger issues at play here.

Glad you feel better now

Personally, I think you are over-blowing the "condescending dismissal" stuff, but to each his own. I can only speak for myself when I say (again) that I have no problem with Muir giving his opinion, but if you are going to say things like he did YOU NEED TO BACK THEM UP. If you don't have the time and/or space to do that, it's probably not the venue to be raising those issues.

If I came into this thread and said,

"After his moves before and at the draft, Don Sweeney is a straight up genius that has energized this franchise and set it up to be contenders for years to come. His trades of Dougie Hamilton and Milan Lucic, while hard to accept in the short term, were brilliant moves that will pay dividends in the near future."

Then I dropped the mike and left the stage. I'm pretty sure I would be criticized roundly and asked to explain my comments? I'm not sure how Muir is any different, except he gets paid to make those comments, and should probably be held to a higher standard.

 

[EverettMike]

It was just a quick hit column, pretty standard and common. Do you think it required questioning his integrity? I've said the content is more than fair game.

Also, I think you've been very fair the last six weeks Joe.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I thought about why this thread was irking me and why I felt the need to comment anyway. I think it's because I saw the same types of condescending dismissals of Muir here that have been far too common on this board since draft day. Mainly that if you are negative about what has happened you are stupid, or have an agenda, or that your opinion is worthless.

Lots of smart hockey people are completely perplexed about what this team has done. They aren't all worthless. Plenty of smart people on this forum love what Sweeney has done, they aren't all worthless. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, which is where I know I have settled into. My initial anger and disgust has ebbed, the amazing return on Looch being a huge part of it, but I still don't like the McQuaid extension, abhor the Rinaldo deal, and think the Dougie situation was mishandled.

I've fully explained why I think these things, not with emotion but actual reasons. I've had emotional posts, but those opinions are based in a certain logic. I'm opinionated, but I pick my opinions carefully. It's why I have almost no opinion on the actual draft picks, I don't know enough to have one. I'm excited by things Kirk and Dom have written about them, but I have no personal opinion because I don't feel like I know enough about the guys picked or not picked.

Being dismissed because someone doesn't like your opinion is crappy, and terms like hater or fanboy are equally dismissive.

I haven't read Muir for a long time, ever since CNNSI ****ed up their page and made it unreadable. Also loathing peter king turned me off the whole site. But I remember him being smart, and I always thought he was fair to the Bruins. Questioning his passion reeks of the same type of awfulness that is too prominent here this summer.

Smart people disagree all the time, and being negative doesn't make you less of a fan or mean what you are saying is any less valid.

Time will sort all of this out, but that doesn't mean posts today need to be so personal.

Eh, I've said my peace. I'm not actually upset or anything, just did some thinking on why this thread irked me in the first place and realized it was just a microcosm of bigger issues at play here.

Your best post ever. (Because I completely agree)

 

[Hali33]

I thought about why this thread was irking me and why I felt the need to comment anyway. I think it's because I saw the same types of condescending dismissals of Muir here that have been far too common on this board since draft day. Mainly that if you are negative about what has happened you are stupid, or have an agenda, or that your opinion is worthless.

Lots of smart hockey people are completely perplexed about what this team has done. They aren't all worthless. Plenty of smart people on this forum love what Sweeney has done, they aren't all worthless. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, which is where I know I have settled into. My initial anger and disgust has ebbed, the amazing return on Looch being a huge part of it, but I still don't like the McQuaid extension, abhor the Rinaldo deal, and think the Dougie situation was mishandled.

I've fully explained why I think these things, not with emotion but actual reasons. I've had emotional posts, but those opinions are based in a certain logic. I'm opinionated, but I pick my opinions carefully. It's why I have almost no opinion on the actual draft picks, I don't know enough to have one. I'm excited by things Kirk and Dom have written about them, but I have no personal opinion because I don't feel like I know enough about the guys picked or not picked.

Being dismissed because someone doesn't like your opinion is crappy, and terms like hater or fanboy are equally dismissive.

I haven't read Muir for a long time, ever since CNNSI ****ed up their page and made it unreadable. Also loathing peter king turned me off the whole site. But I remember him being smart, and I always thought he was fair to the Bruins. Questioning his passion reeks of the same type of awfulness that is too prominent here this summer.

Smart people disagree all the time, and being negative doesn't make you less of a fan or mean what you are saying is any less valid.

Time will sort all of this out, but that doesn't mean posts today need to be so personal.

Eh, I've said my peace. I'm not actually upset or anything, just did some thinking on why this thread irked me in the first place and realized it was just a microcosm of bigger issues at play here.

Good post.

It feels like things are so extreme these days. You share your opinion on something and, like you said, you're thrown into a label of hater or fanboy and you might as well have saved yourself the time. Things are getting personal instead of points being argued. No one's fandom should be called into question because of how they feel about an issue regarding this team.

I love to see the well thought out posts from both sides. One of my favourite things about this place is when someone can challenge you and move you off your original stance on something because their argument was so good.

You lose that when it's one side shouting down and dismissing the other without considering what they have to say.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Id have alot more respect for writers and talk show hosts if once in a while they come clean with their mistakes (id love if posters here did that too)

I try to make sure at least once a month here to own up to 5-10 of my own mistakes because it keeps me a little more humble. When i argue i try to say things like i wouldnt do that... or i dont agree with that... or we see things differnt

Its possible to have your own opinion wothout trying to set yourself up as the authority. Sweeneys moves this summer might take 3-4 years or more to evaluate.

Its fair to call the moves unorthodox or controversial or unique. But anyone trying to lable the moves as a disaster must open up their own record of accountability.

I saw our team ridiculed for the thornton deal... the seguin deal... kessel and wheeler... letting oates and bourque go... allison... guerin...

Again and again ive read these judgements that our team is cheap... that it trades away its young talent..

But then i look at a lineup last year that put more names in tsn top 50 list than anyone. I see this team get me to the finals 2 of the last 5 years.

I guess maybe our decesion makers do know what the hell they are doing?

Personally i wish neely and chiarelli didnt get into a power struggle but i saw behind the b's. I know one man acting alone wasnt making all the decesions.

This team has a team philosophy that stresses character over talent. Team play over individual glory. For the past decade its given us more playoff success than 90% of the league. Ill take it thank you very much.

Come back in 5 years maybe if you want to scream the sky is falling. These guys earned more trust from me than to crybaby after 1 injury plagued season where we had the highest point total in history of any non playoff team. Luck went against us last year... so sad too see so many fair weather fans following flight

 

[unifiedtheory]

I kind of like how this team looks, if I'm honest.

They need another defenseman though, badly.

 

[TCL40]

I think the team is going to struggle a few years. But I see that Sweeney has made moves and decisions with a plan in place. Sweeney made draft choices and moves focused on speed with physical presence. Whether the players live up to that vision is yet to be seen.

I'm actually okay with the draft-it's a gamble anyway and I'm okay with making choices based on who meets your needs than what hockey media day is the best.

The article is pretty negative-which is okay but it also failed to account for why those players were chosen.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Id have alot more respect for writers and talk show hosts if once in a while they come clean with their mistakes (id love if posters here did that too)

I try to make sure at least once a month here to own up to 5-10 of my own mistakes because it keeps me a little more humble. When i argue i try to say things like i wouldnt do that... or i dont agree with that... or we see things differnt

Its possible to have your own opinion wothout trying to set yourself up as the authority. Sweeneys moves this summer might take 3-4 years or more to evaluate.

Its fair to call the moves unorthodox or controversial or unique. But anyone trying to lable the moves as a disaster must open up their own record of accountability.

I saw our team ridiculed for the thornton deal... the seguin deal... kessel and wheeler... letting oates and bourque go... allison... guerin...

Again and again ive read these judgements that our team is cheap... that it trades away its young talent..

But then i look at a lineup last year that put more names in tsn top 50 list than anyone. I see this team get me to the finals 2 of the last 5 years.

I guess maybe our decesion makers do know what the hell they are doing?

Personally i wish neely and chiarelli didnt get into a power struggle but i saw behind the b's. I know one man acting alone wasnt making all the decesions.

This team has a team philosophy that stresses character over talent. Team play over individual glory. For the past decade its given us more playoff success than 90% of the league. Ill take it thank you very much.

Come back in 5 years maybe if you want to scream the sky is falling. These guys earned more trust from me than to crybaby after 1 injury plagued season where we had the highest point total in history of any non playoff team. Luck went against us last year... so sad too see so many fair weather fans following flight

 

[PB37]

I thought about why this thread was irking me and why I felt the need to comment anyway. I think it's because I saw the same types of condescending dismissals of Muir here that have been far too common on this board since draft day. Mainly that if you are negative about what has happened you are stupid, or have an agenda, or that your opinion is worthless.

Lots of smart hockey people are completely perplexed about what this team has done. They aren't all worthless. Plenty of smart people on this forum love what Sweeney has done, they aren't all worthless. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, which is where I know I have settled into. My initial anger and disgust has ebbed, the amazing return on Looch being a huge part of it, but I still don't like the McQuaid extension, abhor the Rinaldo deal, and think the Dougie situation was mishandled.

I've fully explained why I think these things, not with emotion but actual reasons. I've had emotional posts, but those opinions are based in a certain logic. I'm opinionated, but I pick my opinions carefully. It's why I have almost no opinion on the actual draft picks, I don't know enough to have one. I'm excited by things Kirk and Dom have written about them, but I have no personal opinion because I don't feel like I know enough about the guys picked or not picked.

Being dismissed because someone doesn't like your opinion is crappy, and terms like hater or fanboy are equally dismissive.

I haven't read Muir for a long time, ever since CNNSI ****ed up their page and made it unreadable. Also loathing peter king turned me off the whole site. But I remember him being smart, and I always thought he was fair to the Bruins. Questioning his passion reeks of the same type of awfulness that is too prominent here this summer.

Smart people disagree all the time, and being negative doesn't make you less of a fan or mean what you are saying is any less valid.

Time will sort all of this out, but that doesn't mean posts today need to be so personal.

Eh, I've said my peace. I'm not actually upset or anything, just did some thinking on why this thread irked me in the first place and realized it was just a microcosm of bigger issues at play here.

That's a very fair and honest response. Excellent post.

 

[Eddie Munson]

I thought about why this thread was irking me and why I felt the need to comment anyway. I think it's because I saw the same types of condescending dismissals of Muir here that have been far too common on this board since draft day. Mainly that if you are negative about what has happened you are stupid, or have an agenda, or that your opinion is worthless.

Lots of smart hockey people are completely perplexed about what this team has done. They aren't all worthless. Plenty of smart people on this forum love what Sweeney has done, they aren't all worthless. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, which is where I know I have settled into. My initial anger and disgust has ebbed, the amazing return on Looch being a huge part of it, but I still don't like the McQuaid extension, abhor the Rinaldo deal, and think the Dougie situation was mishandled.

I've fully explained why I think these things, not with emotion but actual reasons. I've had emotional posts, but those opinions are based in a certain logic. I'm opinionated, but I pick my opinions carefully. It's why I have almost no opinion on the actual draft picks, I don't know enough to have one. I'm excited by things Kirk and Dom have written about them, but I have no personal opinion because I don't feel like I know enough about the guys picked or not picked.

Being dismissed because someone doesn't like your opinion is crappy, and terms like hater or fanboy are equally dismissive.

I haven't read Muir for a long time, ever since CNNSI ****ed up their page and made it unreadable. Also loathing peter king turned me off the whole site. But I remember him being smart, and I always thought he was fair to the Bruins. Questioning his passion reeks of the same type of awfulness that is too prominent here this summer.

Smart people disagree all the time, and being negative doesn't make you less of a fan or mean what you are saying is any less valid.

Time will sort all of this out, but that doesn't mean posts today need to be so personal.

Eh, I've said my peace. I'm not actually upset or anything, just did some thinking on why this thread irked me in the first place and realized it was just a microcosm of bigger issues at play here.

Well said. More people need to be less sensitive around here, including myself. When you have a passion for something like most of us here do for hockey or the Bruins, it's easy for your emotions to take hold when you read something negative. But negativity isn't always a bad thing, I for one am happy people are labeling this team an underdog. I truly don't care what people think of Sweeney or that after 3 bad years in a row here that Edmonton fans have atoned Chia of all his previous sins.

All and all Mike this place needs more posters like you. You stick to your guns and say what you feel. Well said again bud!

 

[JOKER 192]

Exactly. It was tongue in cheek based on the way posters here change their opinions of writers singularly based on the criteria of whether they agree or disagree with the article. They will dismiss a writer's entire resume if the view irks them, and even if they'd agreed with the guy in the past. It's laughable. But in no way was my post serious or dismissive of downgoesbrown or it's author.

Whoa, does that mean if I agree with you once, I always have to agree with you? I have on occasion agreed with you but most of the time...............

 

[LSCII]

Whoa, does that mean if I agree with you once, I always have to agree with you? I have on occasion agreed with you but most of the time...............

There's a big difference between just disagreeing with something a writer said and calling that writer a hack with an agenda, no? The fact that some of the same people had previously sung the guy's praises just illustrates the nonsense I was talking about. Saying the guy is a good writer only when he agrees with a poster is the dynamic that a few of us here are talking about.

 

[JOKER 192]

There's a big difference between just disagreeing with something a writer said and calling that writer a hack with an agenda, no? The fact that some of the same people had previously sung the guy's praises just illustrates the nonsense I was talking about. Saying the guy is a good writer only when he agrees with a poster is the dynamic that a few of us here are talking about.

Ok, it sounds better said that way.

 

[member 96824]

Muir's written about the Bruins for years even back in 2006 when being a Bruin fan was a lot like trying to sneak a drink in the prohibition. Looking at google, back then it seems he was subject to a number of different Hockey's Future topics

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=286353

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=282088

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/archive/index.php/t-296218.html

He called Boychuk one of the top 5 free agent bargains pre-2011.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/archive/index.php/t-812819.html

Not too shabby.

 

[Gordoff]

Muir's written about the Bruins for years even back in 2006 when being a Bruin fan was a lot like trying to sneak a drink in the prohibition. Looking at google, back then it seems he was subject to a number of different Hockey's Future topics

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=286353

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=282088

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/archive/index.php/t-296218.html

He called Boychuk one of the top 5 free agent bargains pre-2011.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/archive/index.php/t-812819.html

Not too shabby.

Thank you Finance Guy, these "look backs" have brought much into perspective!

 

[EverettMike]

Thank you Finance Guy, these "look backs" have brought much into perspective!

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=6421648&postcount=8

Wow.

 

[Spooner st]

Being dismissed because someone doesn't like your opinion is crappy, and terms like hater or fanboy are equally dismissive.

Over reacting and ****hing all over the organization like a 6 year old wen the FO make a move someone don't like is also Dismissive.