Show me a great coach, and I’ll show you a great goalie..

[centipede2233]

Interesting stat concerning the jack adams trophy,

Of the last 8 seasons, 7 of the 8 jack adams winners had a vezina finalist. 3 of those 7 vezina finalist won it (bob, Ullmark and Holtby). Discuss my fellow hfers!

Correction: I wanted to correct, 1 of the vezina finalist came 5th in voting (fleury during gallant jack adams). So 6 of the last 8 jack adams had a vezina finalist with one of the 2 being a 5th place in vezina voting

Click to read more...

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Also isn't it weird that the Jack Adams rarely goes to the coach of the best team in the league.

 

[Avsfan1921]

The Adams award is quite the trophy. How many coaches have been fired within a season or two after winning the award lol.

Also, Jared Bednar should have an adams despite goaltending.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm convinced Dean Evason is one of the best head coaches in the league. And he does not have a great goalie, at least not at this stop. I said from the beginning I liked that hire for the Jackets.

Ironically, I think one thing that did him in over in Minnesota was him not completely turning the keys over to Gustavsson and giving Fleury too many games.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Also isn't it weird that the Jack Adams rarely goes to the coach of the best team in the league.

No, not really. The best teams are usually those with lots of elite talent, and teams with lots of elite talent tend to succeed regardless of who the coach is.

Coach of the year, across sports, usually goes to coaches who oversaw a massive turnaround, or who are getting spectacular results out of a collection of unspectacular players. As it should be, IMO.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

No, not really. The best teams are usually those with lots of elite talent, and teams with lots of elite talent tend to succeed regardless of who the coach is.

Coach of the year, across sports, usually goes to coaches who oversaw a massive turnaround, or who are getting spectacular results out of a collection of unspectacular players.

If the massive turnaround is because of the coach, why do they usually get fired the following season after being awarded the Jack Adams?

The same argument can be made that the turnaround from unspectacular teams is attributed to the players just as much as the sustained success of spectacular teams.

 

[Just Linda]

A good system makes a good goalie look great.

Isn't it weird that some teams just seem to always make consistent goalies with good positioning look like all-stars?

 

[centipede2233]

The Adams award is quite the trophy. How many coaches have been fired within a season or two after winning the award lol.

Also, Jared Bednar should have an adams despite goaltending.

Yeah it’s really bizarre, but when you look at my stat linking jack adams winners to vezina finalists, it’s not that shocking since goalies are very volatile, great one year, crappy the next. Which would make sense why you see a lot of jack adams winners fired shortly after because their vezina finalist/winner fell off a cliff.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Tocchet and Bowness(retired) and Brunnette not even top 10 in odds. Every year you are good then bad?

This is not a serious award.

 

[centipede2233]

A good system makes a good goalie look great.

Isn't it weird that some teams just seem to always make consistent goalies with good positioning look like all-stars?

You are right. If you don’t have a good defensive system played by good defensive players, it won’t matter who your goalie is today. Steve Valiquette who is a goalie analytics darling, says every goalie, no matter who it is, will let in on average 1 in 3 high danger chances.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

If the massive turnaround is because of the coach, why do they usually get fired the following season?

Is this a statistic about Jack Adams winners you’re referring to?

The same argument can be made that the turnaround from unspectacular teams is attributed to the players just as much as the sustained success of spectacular teams.

Ok? Is that the argument you’re making?

IMO teams with excellent records but only middling talent tend to achieve their success via some combination of

1. strong systems and player buy-in

and/or

2. outstanding goalie play

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Is this a statistic about Jack Adams winners you’re referring to?

Yes. Statistically they are most likely to be fired within 2 years of winning the Jack Adams

2023: Jim Montgomery, Boston Bruins - fired 2024
2022: Darryl Sutter, Calgary Flames - fired 2023
2021: Rod Brind'Amour, Carolina Hurricanes
2020: Bruce Cassidy, Boston Bruins - fired 2022
2019: Barry Trotz, New York Islanders
2018: Gerard Gallant, Vegas Golden Knights - fired Jan 2020
2017: John Tortorella, Columbus Blue Jackets
2016: Barry Trotz, Washington Capitals - not re-signed in 2018
2015: Bob Hartley, Calgary Flames - fired 2016
2014: Patrick Roy, Colorado Avalanche - left 2016
2013: Paul MacLean, Ottawa Senators - fired 2014

 

[Bank Shot]

The problem is they award the Jack Adams on which team was the luckiest.

That's why they get fired.

A subpar team massively overachieves because everything goes right for them one season.

Of course it's impossible to replicate luck so they go back to being subpar the next year.

Coach gets fired because of raised expectations from management.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[HockeyVirus]

All of these awards not based on pure stats are political nonsense. Media members are more concerned with not seeming "wrong" with their votes than voting for who they think should really win. By the time voting comes, there is a consensus of who you should vote for if you really know what you are talking about, which is really nonsense.

Look at Lou winning B2B Gm of the year for doing really nothing but hiring a coach. Look at Canadian media voting for big Canadian names and Americans voting for American names. Then eat shit talk each other about bias.

It's all a racket.

 

[Voight]

Also isn't it weird that the Jack Adams rarely goes to the coach of the best team in the league.

It's the most improved team award basically.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think goalie is a generally unstable position that is largely dependent on the team in front of them. Very overrated position. People act like it's the hockey equivalent of a quarterback. But QB more often than not goes at the top of the draft. You might get one goalie in the first round somewhere.

 

[Machinehead]

It's not just the Jack Adams, specifically. Short-term regular season winning is entirely how we judge coaches and wins and in the short-term are a small skip from team save percentage.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Yes. Statistically they are most likely to be fired within 2 years of winning the Jack Adams

lol that's not what you just said though. you claimed most Jack Adams winners get fired the season after winning it.

your exact quote was:

"If the massive turnaround is because of the coach, why do they usually get fired the following season after being awarded the Jack Adams?"​

Since the 1999-2000 season, only 3 out of the last 24 Jack Adams winners were fired the next year. So yeah, like I said, your original claim holds no water.

2023: Jim Montgomery, Boston Bruins
2022: Darryl Sutter, Calgary Flames - fired 2023
2021: Rod Brind'Amour, Carolina Hurricanes
2020: Bruce Cassidy, Boston Bruins
2019: Barry Trotz, New York Islanders
2018: Gerard Gallant, Vegas Golden Knights
2017: John Tortorella, Columbus Blue Jackets
2016: Barry Trotz, Washington Capitals
2015: Bob Hartley, Calgary Flames - fired 2016
2014: Patrick Roy, Colorado Avalanche
2013: Paul MacLean, Ottawa Senators

 

[Nogatco Rd]

The problem is they award the Jack Adams on which team was the luckiest.

That's why they get fired.

Fake news, see above post ^^

A subpar team massively overachieves because everything goes right for them one season.

Of course it's impossible to replicate luck so they go back to being subpar the next year.

Coach gets fired because of raised expectations from management.

Rinse and repeat.

I have no doubt it plays out that way on occasion, but to characterize it as a "rinse and repeat" recurring pattern is completely incorrect.

Again, only 3 times in the last 24 seasons has a coach been fired the year after winning the Jack Adams.

 

[Bank Shot]

Fake news, see above post ^^

I have no doubt it plays out that way on occasion, but to characterize it as a "rinse and repeat" recurring pattern is completely incorrect.

Again, only 3 times in the last 24 seasons has a coach been fired the year after winning the Jack Adams.

Looks like 8 of the last 11 were gone in 2 years.

Seems pretty normal that they would get one grace season to recover their lucky touch before being fired the second.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Looks like 8 of the last 11 were gone in 2 years.

Seems pretty normal that they would get one grace season to recover their lucky touch before being fired the second.

Careful bro, this guy is really passionate about the semantics of how long after coaches get fired after winning the Jack Adams. Tread carefully.

 

[5 14 6 1]

Also isn't it weird that the Jack Adams rarely goes to the coach of the best team in the league.

It's always the team that no one thought would be good, but they are lol

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Harry Neale once famously said, "If you have a goalie, it's 70% of your team. If you don't, it's 100%."

Of course a coach's level of success is very dependent on the goalie.

 

[MXD]

...You guys know who are the last head coach of the last two goaltenders to win the Hart?

Clue : This isn't "who are", but "who is".

 

[LevelingSolo]

The Adams trophy is just whatever team overachieved the most

Some of the best coaches haven’t even won this award