Should the Leafs STRIP Tavares of C If They Get Bounced again?

[Rabid Ranger]

If the Leafs get bounced again there will be the routine handwringing but what realistically can they do? They continue to have several issues:

* Top heavy offense
* A middling defense
* Unreliable goaltending

What they *need* to do is get Tavares off the books and make a hard decision on Marner/Nylander. I don't think the Leafs can afford to carry both. Matthews has been proven to be able to play well with lesser lights. Bring some balance to the lineup.

 

[Strangle]

No, they should fire Keefe though

 

[WarriorofTime]

Has any player destroyed their own legacy by switching teams like John Tavares?

Think about, the perception with him was that he was single-handedly carrying a horrible franchise that would be horrible forever on his back when they made low postseason appearances. People would say he was playing with AHL talent and elevating them to look good. His best seasons were lavished with Hart and post-season All Star consideration. When he signed, lots of comments about joining a "real" hockey franchise. He's only 28 and still in his prime entering his first year in Toronto.

Then the Leafs go on to never accomplish a thing in the postseason, and basically stay where they were before he signed and messed up their cap structure. The Islanders, who were predicted to spend another 40 years wandering the desert when their franchise player left, make the postseason 5 out of 6 times upon his exit, calling some into question how much he carried the Islanders or how impressive that truly was.

The Leafs don't get better, the Islanders don't get worse. So where does that leave the reputation of John Tavares?

His reputation goes from a guy that carried an AHL team into some respectable seasons to the guy largely blamed for possibly ruining the Auston Matthews era.

 

[Derailed75]

Pretty sure stripping him of the C will not fix their defensive scheme issues, the fact the front office struggles to fix the issues with their D personnel, or the fact their front office cant find a decent net minder.

 

[blundluntman]

 

[haveandare]

You win playoff games by only scoring 1 goal though? Makes sense, expecting your goalie to shut out the other team to win is reasonable.

When your goalie lets the other team get a huge lead despite having 1/3 of the chances in the game, they clamp down knowing they don’t need to score anymore.

You don’t win playoff games any one way as a rule, but having garbage goaltending that everyone could have told you would have been garbage goaltending is not a recipe for success

 

[AvroArrow]

If the Leafs get bounced again there will be the routine handwringing but what realistically can they do? They continue to have several issues:

* Top heavy offense
* A middling defense
* Unreliable goaltending

What they *need* to do is get Tavares off the books and make a hard decision on Marner/Nylander. I don't think the Leafs can afford to carry both. Matthews has been proven to be able to play well with lesser lights. Bring some balance to the lineup.

Considering we extended Nylander, Marner is the odd man out. And given he ego, he won't take less than his last deal.

Tavares + Brodie + Marner expire, retool around Matthews/Nylander/Rielly. That's 27M freed up with those 3 guys gone + whatever the cap rises, that is a significant amount.

If Tavares is willing to take 5M, you bring him back as the 3C, otherwise time to move on. Resign Bertuzzi and Domi, spend the next 2 years fixing the holes on the roster, start truly contending in 2026.

The Leafs are a playoff team, I don't see them as a true cup contender this year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Considering we extended Nylander, Marner is the odd man out. And given he ego, he won't take less than his last deal.

Tavares + Brodie + Marner expire, retool around Matthews/Nylander/Rielly. That's 27M freed up with those 3 guys gone + whatever the cap rises, that is a significant amount.

If Tavares is willing to take 5M, you bring him back as the 3C, otherwise time to move on. Resign Bertuzzi and Domi, spend the next 2 years fixing the holes on the roster, start truly contending in 2026.

The Leafs are a playoff team, I don't see them as a true cup contender this year.

Who is replacing Tavares' role at 2C? Regardless of where you land on the "Tavares isn't that good anyway" spectrum (which I clearly do), the problem with the Leafs is he IS the 2C and they'd have to replace his 70-ish points somehow in order to remain a Cup threat.

So I'm not sure why you think they'd be more in a position to contend when he's off the books when you'd then have to allocate a significant amount of his freed up salary to finding a new 2C, while still also having to shore up the D and G positions.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Johnny boy should be taking notes on Adam Lowry's game last night. The guy led by example on the ice and was a warrior. And he's a #3C and makes peanuts compared to John.

 

[AvroArrow]

Who is replacing Tavares' role at 2C? Regardless of where you land on the "Tavares isn't that good anyway" spectrum (which I clearly do), the problem with the Leafs is he IS the 2C and they'd have to replace his 70-ish points somehow in order to remain a Cup threat.

So I'm not sure why you think they'd be more in a position to contend when he's off the books when you'd then have to allocate a significant amount of his freed up salary to finding a new 2C, while still also having to shore up the D and G positions.

If he signs a 5M deal, he stays as the 2C, if he wants more, find someone, the way other teams find people.

Because we would have 22M between him and Marner + Brodies 5M this year, coming off the books. 27M is a lot of cap space to bolster the roster.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If he signs a 5M deal, he stays as the 2C, if he wants more, find someone, the way other teams find people.

Because we would have 22M between him and Marner + Brodies 5M this year, coming off the books. 27M is a lot of cap space to bolster the roster.

But Tavares clearly isn't good enough anymore (particularly at 5on5) to be the 2C on a Cup threat. So if he returned, even at a discount, it would still leave you lacking. Especially if your plan involves moving on from Marner, who *is* a legitimate elite producer who you'd have to now replace.

It's one thing if it was easy like in a video game to swap Marner out and bring in Makar or Fox, but moving Marner/Brodie out and bringing in ... who? Going out would be a roughly 95 point winger, a roughly 30 goal center, and a top 4D (role, not performance). Replacing those three job titles with UPGRADES seems like a tall order unless Treliving somehow manages to absolutely fleece another GM.

 

[ffh]

They should strip Matthews of that mustache tho.

 

[Artemi Panarin]

How is Tavares on the hot seat for roster construction problems that should fall on the management team?

 

[Cats2TheCup]

If you ever believed this Leaf core had what it takes to win a Stanley Cup, I’m sorry, but you are not the guy with a solution. Many beleafers have no idea what a Stanley cup winning team looks like.

 

[Kranix]

What does Tavares being the captain have to do with Keefe being a loser coach?

 

[Bizz]

Yes, because it's Tavares's fault the the Leafs have 50% of their cap space tied up in 4 players.

 

[Moose Head]

Pajama boy's heart would be forever crushed if his team that he idolized throughout his childhood did this.

He’ll burn the PJs when the inevitable divorce happens.

 

[IronCladCane]

The Leafs and oilers year in and year out continue to be an example of why a team with a multiple Mega stars won't win a cup

 

[Moose Head]

Has any player destroyed their own legacy by switching teams like John Tavares?

Joseph cup chasing and going to Detroit?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Has any player destroyed their own legacy by switching teams like John Tavares?

Think about, the perception with him was that he was single-handedly carrying a horrible franchise that would be horrible forever on his back when they made low postseason appearances. People would say he was playing with AHL talent and elevating them to look good. His best seasons were lavished with Hart and post-season All Star consideration. When he signed, lots of comments about joining a "real" hockey franchise. He's only 28 and still in his prime entering his first year in Toronto.

Then the Leafs go on to never accomplish a thing in the postseason, and basically stay where they were before he signed and messed up their cap structure. The Islanders, who were predicted to spend another 40 years wandering the desert when their franchise player left, make the postseason 5 out of 6 times upon his exit, calling some into question how much he carried the Islanders or how impressive that truly was.

The Leafs don't get better, the Islanders don't get worse. So where does that leave the reputation of John Tavares?

His reputation goes from a guy that carried an AHL team into some respectable seasons to the guy largely blamed for possibly ruining the Auston Matthews era.

I honestly thought that his legacy was something he would consider and be the deciding factor in staying with the Islanders. Who knows what would've happened the past 5 years if he was still an Islander (Tavares, Barzal, Nelson down the middle looks pretty strong). Regardless, he would've been the face of the franchise, THE guy in a major (yet small) market. Seems like playing for the Islanders more closely matches his personality than the limelight pressure cooker of Toronto. Really could've had his cake and eaten too. Had he retired an Islander, he would've heir to the throne as the dynasty players sadly leave us.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yes, because it's Tavares's fault the the Leafs have 50% of their cap space tied up in 4 players.

It’s not a coincidence that he only has 2 playoff series wins in his career. I don’t think it is. He can’t lead a horse to water.

 

[POVERTY]

It’s not a coincidence that he only has 2 playoff series wins in his career. I don’t think it is. He can’t lead a horse to water.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't he like the most dominant player on the ice when the Isles won that series with him? And those rosters weren't that great either.

I'm not saying current Tavares isn't disappointing, especially at the price tag, but it's silly imo to suggest it's his "leadership" that's the problem. How Sheldon Keefe is still the coach of this team is beyond me.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't he like the most dominant player on the ice when the Isles won that series with him? And those rosters weren't that great either.

I'm not saying current Tavares isn't disappointing, especially at the price tag, but it's silly imo to suggest it's his "leadership" that's the problem. How Sheldon Keefe is still the coach of this team is beyond me.

You’re probably right. I don’t remember how dominant he was. I just don’t know if he is a good leader, I have my doubts he is any good. Sheldon Keefe might be a bigger problem, you’re right.

 

[Kimota]

It's the least of what they should do.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Off season topic that can be discussed if/when the leafs are eliminated.