Should goalies be allowed to be NHL Captains?

[likid]

Not a total one like Brown. But yeah, I heard he did bad in the Olympics too but then again he wasn't working with the best team.

Sorry? Bad on Olympics? He was +4 on our NT that has goal difference -6 with 2 goals and over 70% in FO...

And on Kings 10 points more than next best one, in +\- is +6 better than next best King (Kopitar +22, Doughty +16)...

To say Kopitar is disappointment (probably just because he is not PPG player right now) is funny...

 

[Degenerate]

Nothing,

Dean Lombardi failed to adress secondary scoring and the Defense is too old.

This is basically a throw away year.

The cap goes up this off season, and the Kings will have contracts coming off the books.

Lombardi has a lot of work to do this off season.

There is no trade, no line tweak, no stripping of letters, Zip zero nada. the Kings can do this year to beat a team like Chicago.

Don't do something stupid, like give up Vey/Pearson/Toffoli hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

Doesn't seem very proactive to me. I'd say the smallest change you could make would be picking a new captain. I am surprised you think noone else would do a better job at it than Brown.

Can I just say one more time that I really like Brown? I will go ahead and agree with you that it might be too early to be having this discussion. I am only speculating on positive changes that could be made for the team as a whole. It's fine to disagree.

By the way , calling any season a throw away year is a losing mentality.

 

[damacles1156]

Stripping the leadership group of letters is never a positive change.

I have been in competitive locker rooms, when something like that happens it means management is ready to clear out the entire roster.

It sends the message that, this locker room is done boy's. That is not a positive message. Good things don't come from those type of moves.

Now if the C or A's are just passing off, like someone retires, that's different.

But people in here are talking about stripping that C off Brown's sweater.

The locker room would not be happy with that, and it would show on the ice. These guy's are human, and they like Brown as their captain.

There are other way's of getting your point across, but Management doesn't seem to be unhappy with the teams effort.

Effort is not really a problem, it's just making the correct play to be in an scoring area.

The Kings are struggling mighty with that.

 

[Degenerate]

Sorry? Bad on Olympics? He was +4 on our NT that has goal difference -6 with 2 goals and over 70% in FO...

And on Kings 10 points more than next best one, in +\- is +6 better than next best King (Kopitar +22, Doughty +16)...

To say Kopitar is disappointment (probably just because he is not PPG player right now) is funny...

Compare him to last season, or the season before that...ect, ect and you'll understand.

 

[Degenerate]

Stripping the leadership group of letters is never a positive change.

I have been in competitive locker rooms, when something like that happens it means management is ready to clear out the entire roster.

It sends the message that, this locker room is done boy's. That is not a positive message. Good things don't come from those type of moves.

Now if the C or A's are just passing off, like someone retires, that's different.

But people in here are talking about stripping that C off Brown's sweater.

The locker room would not be happy with that, and it would show on the ice. These guy's are human, and they like Brown as their captain.

There are other way's of getting your point across, but Management doesn't seem to be unhappy with the teams effort.

Effort is not really a problem, it's just making the correct play to be in an scoring area.

The Kings are struggling mighty with that.

Under what conditions would you say warrant a move like changing captains? If your captain goes from being awesome, to not awesome, when do you say it's time for him to lose the C? Never? I respectfully disagree.

You seem to be the type that would have opposed getting rid of TM for Sutter.

 

[damacles1156]

Under what conditions would you say warrant a move like changing captains? If your captain goes from being awesome, to not awesome, when do you say it's time for him to lose the C? Never? I respectfully disagree.

Mattias Norstrom was not an awesome Defensive player, he was above average most nights. He is regarded by players, and management to be one of the best Captains the Kings ever had.

The Captain does not have to be your best player. There is a lot more that goes into being a Captain of a team.

Bad play for one season, does not make my list for letter stripping.

Brown would have to be a complete cancer or an embarrassment in the community.

Brown and His wife do tremendous work in the LA area, he is a damn good human being.

 

[Degenerate]

Mattias Norstrom was not an awesome Defensive player, he was above average most nights. He is regarded by players, and management to be one of the best Captains the Kings ever had.

The Captain does not have to be your best player. There is a lot more that goes into being a Captain of a team.

Bad play for one season, does not make my list for letter stripping.

Brown would have to be a complete cancer or an embarrassment in the community.

Brown and His wife do tremendous work in the LA area, he is a damn good human being.

Of course, you need to be respected, charismatic, inspirational, and level headed. Brown has been some of those, but not all of them. Atleast not this season. I will wait until next season before bringing this up again....but I'm not sure it will be much different than this one. Hope he proves me wrong of course.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Under what conditions would you say warrant a move like changing captains? If your captain goes from being awesome, to not awesome, when do you say it's time for him to lose the C? Never? I respectfully disagree.

You seem to be the type that would have opposed getting rid of TM for Sutter.

Let's flip that around and ask what sample size you think is fair to use? Hundreds of NHL games vs. 50, even disregarding injury?

I know you acknowledged yourself that it may be too early to have this discussion and I agree with that. I think that ripping a C off Brown is premature and negatively shocking to a struggling team. While I agree that you don't want to throw away the season, changing the captain is a negative shockwave. If we continue to struggle, heads are gonna roll, and that means a trade (doubt it would be a coaching change at this opint).

 

[damacles1156]

Under what conditions would you say warrant a move like changing captains? If your captain goes from being awesome, to not awesome, when do you say it's time for him to lose the C? Never? I respectfully disagree.

You seem to be the type that would have opposed getting rid of TM for Sutter.

I was in full support of getting rid of Terry Murray, He is a bridge coach.

But I am realistic about who the GM of the Kings is.

I knew Lombardi was going to replace Murray with a Similar coach.

Coaches like Terry Murray and Ken Hitch have their purpose.

EDM would have been really smart to hire Terry Murray. Thank god EDM hired the disaster that is Dallas Eakins.

 

[jml87]

Good question.

Richards I have the opinion is slightly overrated, and if I could trade anyone, it would be him. But on the flip side, he already has experience as a Captain with the Flyers. But of course, he was traded away, so maybe he wasn't the best at it.

Kopitar is one of my favorite players, and this season has just been a big disappointment. Still, he's a veteran and would still be a better choice than Brown.

Carter seems to be more consistent than Richards and Kopi. Then again, I don't think he has had some of the injuries in his career that they have. I would pick him over Doughty based on this season, but then again I have heard Doughty played great in the Olympics, only Canada game I watched was the one vs the US though.

The more I think about it, any of these guys I would give the C over Brown. Richards because of experience with the role, Kopi because hes a veteran, and Carter he's just good....and here's that word again....consistent.

That's an argument for why Carter has been our best player this year, not why he should be captain. Carter does not like talking to the media, he does not like being the guy in charge. The one time he was called to be that guy, he was miserable in Columbus. He is always more comfortable in a supporting role (Not in a hockey skills sense but in a team sense). Part of the reason why he likes playing with Mike is because Richards fulfilled that role without thinking, so he easily followed him and thrived that way. Same with being on the Kings, Brown fulfills the role fine. The captain position has nothing to do with how good you are playing. It's basically being spokesman and taking care of the team as a whole. And there's nothing I've seen Brown do that makes me question his abilities as a leader.

And that's not an insult to Carter either. I'm the same way. Could I be the leader of a group and do a good job at it? Yeah, probably. Do I want that responsibility when there are others just as capable in my group? No, I don't. I feel better in a supporting role in that instance.

 

[likid]

Compare him to last season, or the season before that...ect, ect and you'll understand.

He is better in almost all aspects except points in compare to previous seasons. But the difference between him and other Kings player percentage wise is even larger than in previous years.

Don't you think that if other Kings players would score at least on their average goal tempo, Kopitar wouldn't add 5 - 10 more assist and would be practically close to PPG player this season?

In last three season he played better as he is playing now only during SC run.

 

[CNS]

100% yes. Goalies > players.

 

[Reclamation Project]

100% yes. Goalies > players.

Uggggghhhhh, the minor agrees with me.

 

[JureEe]

Not a total one like Brown. But yeah, I heard he did bad in the Olympics too but then again he wasn't working with the best team.

It's just my opinion man, he's one of my favorite players, so maybe I'm being extra critical.

not sure if serious... Did you watch any game on olympics? Kopitar was far and away best player on our team... He was 70% on FO (top 5 on olympics) with most FO taken on whole tournament i think... His line was always dnagerous and started most of his shifts in def zone... He played 28min per game... (first few, then stomach flu striked)..

He was THE leader on team that did outstanding job...

 

[Degenerate]

not sure if serious... Did you watch any game on olympics? Kopitar was far and away best player on our team... He was 70% on FO (top 5 on olympics) with most FO taken on whole tournament i think... His line was always dnagerous and started most of his shifts in def zone... He played 28min per game... (first few, then stomach flu striked)..

He was THE leader on team that did outstanding job...

Where can I see his Olympic stats? Winning over half his face offs is nice and all, but how many goals and assists did he have? I would hope he was the leader in those stats since he was the best player on that team.

Been googling for the past 10 minutes trying to find his stats for the Olympics...

Btw I find it hilarious that you think just because he had alot of TOI that he was playing good...wasn't he the only NHL player on the Slovenian team??

And did they really do an OUTSTANDING job? I mean, they beat Austria and Slovakia....Austria.....

I noticed you have a Slovenia flag for your location...makes more sense now.

 

[Degenerate]

He is better in almost all aspects except points in compare to previous seasons. But the difference between him and other Kings player percentage wise is even larger than in previous years.

Don't you think that if other Kings players would score at least on their average goal tempo, Kopitar wouldn't add 5 - 10 more assist and would be practically close to PPG player this season?

In last three season he played better as he is playing now only during SC run.

So he is better with goals/assists this season than last, or the 1 before that? Doesn't seem that way. I mean they had a stretch of winning almost every game this season, and that stopped. What happened? Kopitar not playing his best was a small part of the decline.

 

[Degenerate]

I take it back guys, everyone has been playing great on the Kings. There are no problems and nothing should be done. Richards has been particularly amazing. Brown too, totally dominating.

/sarcasm

Somehow this thread has become about Kopitar because I said I personally have been dissapointed in him this season because someone asked why I would take Carter over someone like Kopitar as captain. Can you stop nit picking and keep on topic? There is still time for him to change that, and anyways it's just my personal opinion...perhaps I expect too much from him?

EDIT: Just noticed the 2 people that got mad at me for saying Kopitar has been dissapointing both have Slovenian flags for their location. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Where can I see his Olympic stats? Winning over half his face offs is nice and all, but how many goals and assists did he have? I would hope he was the leader in those stats since he was the best player on that team.

Been googling for the past 10 minutes trying to find his stats for the Olympics...

Btw I find it hilarious that you think just because he had alot of TOI that he was playing good...wasn't he the only NHL player on the Slovenian team??

And did they really do an OUTSTANDING job? I mean, they beat Austria and Slovakia....Austria.....

I noticed you have a Slovenia flag for your location...makes more sense now.

I take it back guys, everyone has been playing great on the Kings. There are no problems and nothing should be done. Richards has been particularly amazing. Brown too, totally dominating.

/sarcasm

Somehow this thread has become about Kopitar because I said I personally have been dissapointed in him this season because someone asked why I would take Carter over someone like Kopitar as captain. Can you stop nit picking and keep on topic? There is still time for him to change that, and anyways it's just my personal opinion...perhaps I expect too much from him?

EDIT: Just noticed the 2 people that got mad at me for saying Kopitar has been dissapointing both have Slovenian flags for their location. Coincidence? I think not.

Few things:

Don't ask for discussion then be disappointed when people provide discussion. The other posters' points about Kopitar were a retort to your points about Carter so they're equally on topic. Nonetheless, if you have issues with a post/threadworthiness/OT, hit the "report post" button and let the mods handle it. Lastly, attack the post not the poster; poking at country-of-origin is not an argument.

Now, to your points: you admitted you didn't even watch Slovenia play so your critcisms of their play are misinformed at best. They were a heavy underdog, not expected to even qualify, so their advancement in the tourney was impressive to say the least. Kopitar drove the play as usual, and those faceoff stats are impressive, and it's even more impressive when you consider what he was surrounded by vs. who he was playing against in heavy minutes often double- and triple-teamed while fighting sickness. What do you want from the guy?

Here are Slovenias stats for comparison. No, he did not lead them in scoring, but he drove every other important statistical category in relation to his team, including playing a full 2 minutes more on average than anyone else (yes, including defensemen). http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/388/IHM400000_83_46_0_SLO.pdf

In relation to your topic, Kopitar would easily make a better captain than Carter for all around play, character, history with the Kings, ability with the media, and just genuine touch.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So he is better with goals/assists this season than last, or the 1 before that? Doesn't seem that way. I mean they had a stretch of winning almost every game this season, and that stopped. What happened? Kopitar not playing his best was a small part of the decline.

Despite team scoring being down, Kopitar is roughly on the same pace as usual.

If you can't find the stats pages and don't watch the games, please stop with the misinformed rants, as they are borderline trolling.

 

[Degenerate]

I could write a lengthy retort, but you're a mod so it'd probably get me banned or something.

But hey, thanks for the link to the Olympic stats. I appreciate that atleast Google Slovenia Olympics Hockey Stats, Slovenia Sochi Hockey Stats, ect ect and you'll see that to find the stats for the whole series is actually harder then it seems. Just didn't think to check the IIHF, although that does make the most sense. My perception that Kopi didn't do so well in the Olympic tournament came totally from reading peoples post on these forums.

And yeah his stats we're pretty unimpressive in the Olympics, sorry to say. Bunch of non NHL players we're pretty much on par with him. Except for FO%.

Just checked his NHL stats, played 12 games less last season than he has so far this season and had 2 more assists. Something isn't right about that, no?

 

[CNS]

Uggggghhhhh, the minor agrees with me.

I only read like every other post from you. You're like the bug in Razzie's avatar. Annoying.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I could write a lengthy retort, but you're a mod so it'd probably get me banned or something.

But hey, thanks for the link to the Olympic stats. I appreciate that atleast Google Slovenia Olympics Hockey Stats, Slovenia Sochi Hockey Stats, ect ect and you'll see that to find the stats for the whole series is actually harder then it seems. Just didn't think to check the IIHF, although that does make the most sense. My perception that Kopi didn't do so well in the Olympic tournament came totally from reading peoples post on these forums.

And yeah his stats we're pretty unimpressive in the Olympics, sorry to say. Bunch of non NHL players we're pretty much on par with him. Except for FO%.

Just checked his NHL stats, played 12 games less last season than he has so far this season and had 2 more assists. Something isn't right about that, no?

Yeah, it's like they didn't tag the stats, they were easy to find if you knew exactly where to look but searches weren't picking them up

You're welcome to retort of course. I'm not trying to shut down discussion, just temper it to the subject on hand rather than posters' credibility and if you full on admit to not having the appropriate info to argue a subject it's just best to concede for the time being.

Olympic stats are a small sample size of course but I think he did well given the circumstances. It's not like it was raining goals for Slovenia. And as I pointed out he flat-out dominated the other stats so imo it's a wash. He did tie Crosby, and outscored Stastny, Corey Perry, and Jamie Benn, for example, in fewer games, so it's a matter of perspective.

And you don't think him having less assists but more goals than this time last year is a problem rather than a function of a team-wide drought? Can't get phantom assists, need someone else to score to pick those up!

 

[Degenerate]

Yeah, it's like they didn't tag the stats, they were easy to find if you knew exactly where to look but searches weren't picking them up

You're welcome to retort of course. I'm not trying to shut down discussion, just temper it to the subject on hand rather than posters' credibility and if you full on admit to not having the appropriate info to argue a subject it's just best to concede for the time being.

Olympic stats are a small sample size of course but I think he did well given the circumstances. It's not like it was raining goals for Slovenia. And as I pointed out he flat-out dominated the other stats so imo it's a wash. He did tie Crosby, and outscored Stastny, Corey Perry, and Jamie Benn, for example, in fewer games, so it's a matter of perspective.

And you don't think him having less assists but more goals than this time last year is a problem rather than a function of a team-wide drought? Can't get phantom assists, need someone else to score to pick those up!

Well said. When someone is right, they are right. Can't argue with this post, damn

I especially agree with the bolded part.

 

[Degenerate]

Thank you Slovenia for producing Anze Kopitar. Beyond impressed with how he took control in tonights game vs the Avs. It's kinda funny how I was saying I had been slightly disappointed with him before the break, then he comes back and totally dominates. Not even sure what I was thinking and I take it all back

 

[King'sPawn]

FWIW, I think the rule is kind of silly, considering any captain could complain about everything and delay the game.

But I also think it's a bad idea to have a goalie become the captain, for multiple reasons:
- He is very rarely on the bench. When you need your captain to step up, be a leader, and speak up, the goalie is far removed mentally from the team. His focus is on stopping the pucks.
- He can never criticize the team play without sounding like he's deflecting blame. Thus, nobody is held accountable from a player-leadership standpoint
- There are times when the backup plays instead, and the captain is left sitting on the bench. Do you just give the letter to someone else then? Because the backup can't step on the ice.