Should Connor Hellebuyck be in the Hart Conversation?

[JKG33]

Again, the comparison was to ensure that you understand how the Hart Trophy is awarded independently of past playoff performances. Seems you understand that.

As to your other claim, my eye test tells me that Matthews is highly dependent on his teammates spoon-feeding him goals, and the reason why his goal scoring rate drops to 34 goals per 82 games in the playoffs is because teams focus on stopping this.

My eye test doesn't actually tell me this, and if it did I would see if my eye test can be backed up by anything else. That's generally a prudent approach.

So you made up a scenario to say you don't? Lol

 

[gojetsgo]

They are bang average over this full season so far. Regardless how they ended up there, that's their defensive performance this year.

if these numbers are the end all be all sure, but they are far from perfect require context, saying they are mediocre defensively because a bad stretch and ignoring the reasons why that bad stretched happened is a terrible way to use these numbers

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

He's also pumping out the most rebounds out of any goaltender by a huge margin in the league. It's why his high danger chances, saves above expected, etc. are all super inflated.

Why doesn't a guy like Swayman simply just allow more rebounds so he can win multiple vezinas and lead goalies in all categories?

 

[Le Tricolore]

He should've won it last year, and should obviously be in the mix this year too.

 

[Romang67]

So you made up a scenario to say you don't? Lol

 

[TheNumber4]

He's having a crazy year stats wise, and the Jets are near the top of the league this year.

For perspective:

Those lists must be in error, they don’t include the Leagues best goalie $11.5M Sheshturkey

 

[TheNumber4]

I think he should be in the conversation, but even more than the high scoring forwards I think his team being second in goals per game will hurt him. If you go back to the last wins from Price and Theodore, Montreal was 20th and 19th in goals for, and even Buffalo was 17th and 13th in Hasek’s wins.

If we look at top 3 Hart finishes for goalies, the Rangers were 16th (Shesterkin in ‘22), Columbus was 6th (Bobrovsky in ‘17), Rangers again were 11th (Lundqvist in ‘12), Canucks were 21st (Luongo in ‘07), Jersey was 27th (Brodeur in ‘07), Calgary was 27th (Kipper in ‘06), Jersey was 14th (Brodeur in both ‘03 and ‘04), Colorado was 18th (Roy in ‘02), Buffalo was 17th, 18th and 11th (Hasek in ‘99, ‘95 and ‘94), Montreal was 14th (Roy in ‘92), Chicago was 8th (Belfour in ‘91).

You have to go back to Fuhr in ‘88 where the Oilers were 2nd in goals to find a goalie top 3 in Hart voting on a top 5 scoring team, and only two teams were top 10 in that time frame. If Winnipeg was 10-15th in goals for I think he’d have a much better chance, and a fairly decent one if they were in the bottom half of the league.

I thought they threw out importance to teams success as a metric for the Hart when Matthews won it.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I do. But do you understand the difference in the situations? I'll break it down for you.

Matthews, great regular season. He's responsible for those performances. He's also responsible for not showing up in the playoffs. No matter how good or bad the Leafs are, he disappears. That's on him.

Meanwhile Hellebuyck is so reliant on his team playing a shut down brand of hockey. His regular season numbers aren't based on his performance alone. Just like in the playoffs, where his team is also shit, isn't entirely on him either (although his performances don't help).

If you can't see that the scenarios aren't comparable we're done here

Toronto created a situation for Matthews to succeed by having a great playmaker and focusing their team on offence, Helly is in same position as his team also does everything they can to boost his numbers.

 

[Regal]

I thought they threw out importance to teams success as a metric for the Hart when Matthews won it.

I’m not sure why Matthews’ win stands out in that regard, but regardless, forwards will always have a leg up on the Hart, so narrative is a big factor in goalie wins.

 

[Regal]

Why doesn't a guy like Swayman simply just allow more rebounds so he can win multiple vezinas and lead goalies in all categories?

Do you really not understand why allowing more rebounds would be important context when evaluating goalies?

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Do you really not understand why allowing more rebounds would be important context when evaluating goalies?

I'm just trying to follow along with what Crayon was saying about rebounds - seems like you'd be an idiot not to just copy Helle and allow lots of rebounds if it allows you to fraud your way into being #1 in all goaltender metrics and 2 vezinas.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

I would say yes he should be. But the Jets need to rest him in the latter parts of the season. They always run him into the ground and then he's fatigued come playoff time.

 

[Dust]

As long as there are guys pacing for 130+ points, he doesn't have any realistic shot at the award. It would require him to sustain his pace which is not a realistic ask, and also have the top forwards fall off the face of the earth. He'll get some votes but they won't be top 3.

 

[featherhawk]

absolutely

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Absolument!

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Yep

 

[Carbooja]

Friday Four: Jets' Connor Hellebuyck making case for Hart

It’s extremely rare for a goaltender to win the Hart Trophy, but Connor Hellebuyck just might join an exclusive club this season. Michael Amato looks at Hellebuyck and more in this week's edition of the Friday Four.

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