jfj really wasn't given enough time for you to say he shouldn't have been in the situation in the first place.
he was a new gm, he should have been given 10 years before being judged, if you accept ken holland's idea.
Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?
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he was a new gm, he should have been given 10 years before being judged, if you accept ken holland's idea.
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
Jfjs prospects made it because they developed. Fire Burke today and in five years some of his prospects are on the team.
Jfj inherited one of, if not the best Leaf ever in Sundin. Burke inherited Tomas Kaberle and some good prospects just now showing what they are
Bomber0104
Registered User
They also made it despite the Leafs finishing nearly in the playoffs...as opposed to the Leafs who have been one of the worst teams in the league under Burke.
We should not only have better prospects than we do because we've been so bad...but at least one should be on the roster making a difference. Not one though.
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
exporta
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- Jul 30, 2005
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LeafsRReady
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- Aug 14, 2011
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Burke has done many good things and many negative things. For me, at this point, his overall body of work tells me he stays for a least a couple of years.
Having said that, his biggest mistake was allowing RWilson as much rope as he did. RW hockey was nothing close to what BB promised and he should have pulled the plug on Ronnie at the end of the 10/11 season. I get that the RW extension last December was arguably meaningless, but I was extremely unhappy that it was done and even more upset at BB for allowing that clown Wilson to embarrass the Leafs by his twitter announcement last Christmas. Highly unprofessional.
Having said that, his biggest mistake was allowing RWilson as much rope as he did. RW hockey was nothing close to what BB promised and he should have pulled the plug on Ronnie at the end of the 10/11 season. I get that the RW extension last December was arguably meaningless, but I was extremely unhappy that it was done and even more upset at BB for allowing that clown Wilson to embarrass the Leafs by his twitter announcement last Christmas. Highly unprofessional.
Saul Goodman
Attorney at law
So it's fair to judge Burke using hindsight, but not JFJ?
When the pick was traded it wasn't the "highest pick the leafs ever encountered". It was a first round pick, that simple.
JFJ inherited a better team than Burke did. JFJ had career seasons of Mccabe/Kaberle and Sundin as a #1 centre. Who cares if the teams did better than Burke's? They still missed the playoffs.
And comparing JFJ's draft picks to Burke's is absurd. Burke's has not developed yet.
And comparing JFJ's draft picks to Burke's is absurd. Burke's has not developed yet.
Gobias Industries
Registered User
It's certainly part of the GM's job to have an understanding of where their team should compete when they're trading first round picks though, no?
Can you guys stop whining. We got a superstar who was 21 at the time of the trade. Who the hell predicted he'd be a PPG player without Marc Savard,
Gobias Industries
Registered User
True enough, I think any criticism of Burke shouldn't revolve much around that trade.
It's tough judging Burke, I don't think there have been many impactful gaffes, and it gets really blurry when you're judging a GM for the moves he didn't make.
Rants Mulliniks
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- Jun 22, 2008
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I like how people ignore this. I also like how they ignore Kessel in the "Kessel" deal. Of course, you're also likely to find them bashing Reilly and bent over for Hamilton.....
why shouldn't he have been hired in the first place? you're judging him based on his time in toronto, which wasn't close to 10 years.
his title was gm, so we have to assume he had the same powers and authority as any other gm in the league. doesn't really matter much to your argument though. if someone else was pulling the strings, then that person should have gotten 10 years before being judged.
if you buy ken holland's idea, then you have to admit jfj was judged far too early into his tenure and should have been given 10 years.
hotpaws
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- Nov 21, 2009
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WTF do you think people are ignoring ? The team finished 7th last in back to back seasons yet for some reason his supporters keep saying there's no way he could have known he was giving up the 2nd and 9th overall picks . I also love how on one hand his supporters say this rebuild is taking so long because the team was god awful when he took over then turn around and say there's no way anyone could have known the picks would be this high .
What has Kessel done for the team in his 3 years here ? Yes he's done what Burke expected of him but it has made zero difference in the standings .
WTF does Reilly have to do with Hamilton ? They're both excellent prospects and i don't need to knock one to be a fan of the other .
That's like saying John Tavares doesn't make a difference. This isn't the NBA, you need more than 1 star.
Stephen
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Gerber came in at the end of 2009, when we had our own pick. If we had just lost one or two more games, the Leafs would have jumped from 7th to 5th in the draft order, which would mean a swap of Kadri for Schenn or Oliver Ekman-Larsson potentially in our system. Kadri vs Schenn is up for debate, but if we had drafted OEL, our fortunes could have been very different the past year or two...
hotpaws
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JFJ had full autonomy and admitted as much when he said the only time anyone interfered with his job was when he asked to do a full rebuild and was told that wasn't an option . However he only wanted to do a full rebuild once he failed at retooling a 100 pt team .
JFJ unlike Burke wasn't allowed to fail multiple times and if you want to blame the ownership for anything it's that they didn't allow him to keep trying to ice a quality team after multiple failed seasons .
LeafsNation75
Registered User
I'm not one to defend the Rask for Raycroft trade but I remember hearing JFJ originally wanted to trade Pogge for Raycroft, however Boston didn't want him and got their wish by getting Rask.
So had Toronto still kept Rask and got Raycroft for Pogge would they be a better team today or not?
hotpaws
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What about the other stars i keep hearing Burke aquired like Lupul and Dion ? All these starts and yet the team still finished 26th .
those kinds of moves wont happen with bell /rogers owning the team ...if they extend burke ,it wont be with full atonomy ,and hence once burke wouldve been forced to fire wilson ,never mind give him a million dollar bonus ,its not whether burke should be extended ,its rather can burke work for bosses who expect results,my guess is burke wont want to answer to anyone ,i mean how is he explaining extending ron wilson ,then canning him ,canning francios allare ,dicking around with lousy goaltending ,and possibly having to ask the new board to give phill kessel a raise
i think burke will be gone ,especially if in a 48 game season ,kesel has even one of those 7-12 game goaless streaks ....
Gobias Industries
Registered User
hotpaws
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You should explain that to Burke , then again Burke did think he had a great coach when he said Ronnie was his num 1 star .
Also if it's all about the goalie and the coach then Burke should and traded the picks for a star goalie and not a soft one way winger .
