Shootouts mask how poor this team is playing

[likeabosski]

If we got rid of shootouts and stopped awarding overtime loser points, the Leafs would be 11th in the East instead of 8th (right now Washington is 8th but they have an extra game in hand. If you go by win pct%, Washington is slightly ahead of us).

Standings (by winning percentage) if shootouts were treated as a draw (1 pt) and overtime (non-shootout) losses were treated as losses (0 pts).

Rank Div Team GP ROW D [SOW+SOL] L [L + (OT - SOL)] PTS WIN PCT
1 *M Pittsburgh 48 30 4 14 64 0.667
2 *A Boston 47 29 3 15 61 0.649
3 *A Tampa Bay 48 23 8 17 54 0.563
4 *A Montreal 48 24 6 18 54 0.563
5 *M Philadelphia 48 21 7 20 49 0.510
6 *M NY Rangers 49 22 5 22 49 0.500

7 M New Jersey 49 20 8 21 48 0.490
8 A Detroit 47 19 8 20 46 0.489

9 A Ottawa 48 19 7 22 45 0.469
10 M Columbus 47 20 4 23 44 0.468
11 A Toronto 49 15 13 21 43 0.439
12 M Washington 48 14 14 20 42 0.438
13 M Carolina 46 18 4 24 40 0.435
14 A Florida 47 12 11 24 35 0.372
15 M NY Islanders 49 14 8 27 36 0.367
16 A Buffalo 46 7 9 30 23 0.250

* Top 3 in each division gets playoff birth. #7 and 8 are wild cards.

And this is what the standings look like with the current point structure (by winning pct%)

1 (*M) Pittsburgh .729
2 (*A) Boston .660
3 (*A) Tampa Bay .635
4 (*A) Montreal .615
5 (*M) Philadelphia .552
6 (*M) NY Rangers .541

7 (M) Washington .542
8 (A) Toronto .541

9 (M) Columbus .532
10 (A) Detroit .532
11 (A) Ottawa .531
12 (M) New Jersey .520
13 (M) Carolina .511
14 (M) NY Islanders .459
15 (A) Florida .457
16 (A) Buffalo .348

Some random factoids about the new point structure: .565 is the average winning percentage in the NHL under the current point system. That means .565 is the new .500. Also the average win % is .545 in the east and .589 in the west...

Click to read more...

 

[Ichigo*]

wow you ppl need to stop crying about everything.
last year we didn't win shootouts and all you ppl do is whine.
this year we win shootouts and all you ppl do is whine.

 

[SprDaVE]

Our inability to win shootouts was thought to be this franchise worst problem.

Now that we win them, it's also a problem.

Wooptidoo.

The facts are that the shootouts do exist and we are taking advantage of them, for once since they have been introduced. Saying that if they didn't exist we'd be in crap is irrelevant, just like saying if the NHL had no salary cap we would be awesome.

Let's worry about overtime and shootouts if they ever do remove them.

 

[likeabosski]

wow you ppl need to stop crying about everything.
last year we didn't win shootouts and all you ppl do is whine.
this year we win shootouts and all you ppl do is whine.

Tyler Bozak, Joffrey Lupul and James van Riemsdyk can't bail us out with their shootout skills in the playoffs (unless you commit a penalty on those guys while on a breakaway. Then they would be awarded a penalty shot). So it definitely matters.

New Jersey and Detroit are being robbed. Under the old point system, they would get the playoff wild card spots. But because they suck in the shootout, they have been knocked down the standings.

 

[BeardsGray]

I agree that the Leafs haven't played the best this season. But the ability to win shootouts is necessary in the NHL to help make the playoffs and should be looked as a positive that the Leafs are able to win them.
Just think if they were just as bad as last year in the shootout, they be not be even close to a playoff spot.

 

[SprDaVE]

Tyler Bozak, Joffrey Lupul and James van Riemsdyk can't bail us out with their shootout skills in the playoffs (unless you commit a penalty on those guys while on a breakaway. Then they would be awarded a penalty shot). So it definitely matters.

New Jersey and Detroit are being robbed. Under the old point system, they would get the playoff wild card spots. But because they suck in the shootout, they have been knocked down the standings.

That's pure bull crap.

No one was crying for us and saying that we were robbed when we absolutely sucked in the shootout, especially the first 2 years after the lockout when we were ousted by a single point. We were told to get more skill in the lineup and keep up with the NHL.

Teams that are not able to keep up because they keep losing in the shootout are not being robbed of anything. They are on equal footing with the rest of the league and they are not taking advantage of it. Cry me a river... seriously. The league wanted this. I believe the teams voted on this. They are responsible for the shootout.

What's next on the list of things that are irrelevant?

 

[Quarter]

It's common knowledge that Toronto hasn't been playing well this year.

 

[likeabosski]

That's pure bull crap.

No one was crying for us and saying that we were robbed when we absolutely sucked in the shootout, especially the first 2 years after the lockout when we were ousted by a single point. We were told to get more skill in the lineup and keep up with the NHL.

Teams that are not able to keep up because they keep losing in the shootout are not being robbed of anything. They are on equal footing with the rest of the league and they are not taking advantage of it. Cry me a river... seriously. The league wanted this. I believe the teams voted on this. They are responsible for the shootout.

What's next on the list of things that are irrelevant?

Shootouts are irrelevant in the playoffs though. If the Leafs manage to squeak into 8th place in the East, they will get destroyed by Pittsburgh. Meanwhile New Jersey or Detroit would be better able to put up a fight against Pittsburgh because they are better equipped to win in regulation or overtime. Which is what really matters in the playoffs.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Did anyone not know this?

 

[SprDaVE]

Shootouts are irrelevant in the playoffs though. If the Leafs manage to squeak into 8th place in the East, they will get destroyed by Pittsburgh. Meanwhile New Jersey or Detroit would be better able to put up a fight against Pittsburgh because they are better equipped to win in regulation or overtime. Which is what really matters in the playoffs.

Shootouts are irrelevant in the playoffs. But we aren't talking about playoffs are we? So that's also irrelevant.

Overtime still very much exists and I'm pretty sure we do fairly well in that aspect as well. Detroit or New Jersey suck at shootouts but they are probably worst in OT. If they got to the shootout, doesn't that mean they weren't able to finish it in OT? Why would we be in trouble in OT when we don't even know how we would do? Why are they better equiped to win in OT than us when they are worst offensively than us?

This is rather confusing logic.

The system is in place and we are taking advantage of it as we should. Would it be better to lose in the SO so that we could cry that we are being robbed? I don't understand.

We haven't played all that well this year, we get it, but it's not like Detroit or New Jersey deserve it more than us either.

 

[bshaw]

If we got rid of shootouts and stopped awarding overtime loser points, the Leafs would be 11th in the East instead of 8th (right now Washington is 8th but they have an extra game in hand. If you go by win pct%, Washington is slightly ahead of us).

Standings (by winning percentage) if shootouts were treated as a draw (1 pt) and overtime (non-shootout) losses were treated as losses (0 pts).

Rank Div Team GP ROW D [SOW+SOL] L [L + (OT - SOL)] PTS WIN PCT
1 *M Pittsburgh 48 30 4 14 64 0.667
2 *A Boston 47 29 3 15 61 0.649
3 *A Tampa Bay 48 23 8 17 54 0.563
4 *A Montreal 48 24 6 18 54 0.563
5 *M Philadelphia 48 21 7 20 49 0.510
6 *M NY Rangers 49 22 5 22 49 0.500

7 M New Jersey 49 20 8 21 48 0.490
8 A Detroit 47 19 8 20 46 0.489

9 A Ottawa 48 19 7 22 45 0.469
10 M Columbus 47 20 4 23 44 0.468
11 A Toronto 49 15 13 21 43 0.439
12 M Washington 48 14 14 20 42 0.438
13 M Carolina 46 18 4 24 40 0.435
14 A Florida 47 12 11 24 35 0.372
15 M NY Islanders 49 14 8 27 36 0.367
16 A Buffalo 46 7 9 30 23 0.250

* Top 3 in each division gets playoff birth. #7 and 8 are wild cards.

And this is what the standings look like with the current point structure (by winning pct%)

1 (*M) Pittsburgh .729
2 (*A) Boston .660
3 (*A) Tampa Bay .635
4 (*A) Montreal .615
5 (*M) Philadelphia .552
6 (*M) NY Rangers .541

7 (M) Washington .542
8 (A) Toronto .541

9 (M) Columbus .532
10 (A) Detroit .532
11 (A) Ottawa .531
12 (M) New Jersey .520
13 (M) Carolina .511
14 (M) NY Islanders .459
15 (A) Florida .457
16 (A) Buffalo .348

Some random factoids about the new point structure: .565 is the average winning percentage in the NHL under the current point system. That means .565 is the new .500. Also the average win % is .545 in the east and .589 in the west...

Mirtle?

 

[Hibachi]

You people are hilarious, moaning about everything. You know that we play pretty well against the Pens? have the past 2-3 years. The only team I'm worried about if we get a bottom seed is Boston.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Shootouts are irrelevant in the playoffs though. If the Leafs manage to squeak into 8th place in the East, they will get destroyed by Pittsburgh. Meanwhile New Jersey or Detroit would be better able to put up a fight against Pittsburgh because they are better equipped to win in regulation or overtime. Which is what really matters in the playoffs.

Who says they will only squeak into the 8th place? They have a chance to move up in the standings. Only 6 points back from 3rd in the division.

Everybody is playing by the same rules. It's not the Leafs fault that they have been winning their shootouts while NJ have not won yet. Not our problem. Sorry.

 

[TootooTrain]

Mirtle?

 

[Clark4Ever]

That's pure bull crap.

No one was crying for us and saying that we were robbed when we absolutely sucked in the shootout, especially the first 2 years after the lockout when we were ousted by a single point. We were told to get more skill in the lineup and keep up with the NHL.

Teams that are not able to keep up because they keep losing in the shootout are not being robbed of anything. They are on equal footing with the rest of the league and they are not taking advantage of it. Cry me a river... seriously. The league wanted this. I believe the teams voted on this. They are responsible for the shootout.

What's next on the list of things that are irrelevant?

This.

 

[likeabosski]

Shootouts are irrelevant in the playoffs. But we aren't talking about playoffs are we? So that's also irrelevant.

Overtime still very much exists and I'm pretty sure we do fairly well in that aspect as well. Detroit or New Jersey suck at shootouts but they are probably worst in OT. If they got to the shootout, doesn't that mean they weren't able to finish it in OT? Why would we be in trouble in OT when we don't even know how we would do?

This is rather confusing logic.

The system is in place and we are taking advantage of it as we should. Would it be better to lose in the SO so that we could cry that we are being robbed? I don't understand.

We haven't played all that well this year, we get it, but it's not like Detroit or New Jersey deserve it more than us either.

How are we better at overtime when we made 13 trips to the shootouts because we couldn't finish our opponents in OT? We need to resort to the skills competition to beat our opponents.

 

[Hanta Yo]

Who the hell cares.

Every team goes through the same process, the Leafs didn't magically get more points than their competitors. It's apart of the game, so deal with it.

 

[SprDaVE]

How are we better at overtime when we made 13 trips to the shootouts because we couldn't finish our opponents in OT? We need to resort to the skills competition to beat our opponents.

That's sort of my point.

Why are they better than equipped than us to win in OT? Why are they more deserving of a Wild Card spot simply because they can't win in a shootout?

You make no sense.

None of the teams that have been "robbed" from losing in the shootout deserve to be in the playoffs more than us. That makes no sense.

Skills competition or not, this is what it takes to get points. Obviously not a great way to keep up but what else can you do? Lose in the shootout instead? What are we, New Jersey?

 

[likeabosski]

I think the point is being lost on people in this thread.

Leafs can't rely on the skills competition in the playoffs. The fact that the Leafs can't win in regulation and finish off their opponents in overtime is very alarming. I find it amusing how Leafs fans complain about their inability to win in regulation. But the minute you point out that the Leafs would be 11th without shootouts and OT loser points and that the Leafs can't be bailed out by shootouts in the playoffs, they start getting defensive.

 

[likeabosski]

That's sort of my point.

Why are they better than equipped than us to win in OT? Why are they more deserving of a Wild Card spot simply because they can't win in a shootout?

You make no sense.

None of the teams that have been "robbed" from losing in the shootout deserve to be in the playoffs more than us. That makes no sense.

Skills competition or not, this is what it takes to get points. Obviously not a great way to keep up but what else can you do? Lose in the shootout instead? What are we, New Jersey?

For one, New Jersey and Detroit can win in regulation. We can't. They have more ROW. We only have like 15 out of 49 games. And Toronto is team that collapses in spectacular fashion and chokes in pressure situations. Not something that is going to lead to victories in sudden death overtime where you can't be bailed out by a shootout if you survive for 5 minutes.

 

[Hanta Yo]

I think the point is being lost on people in this thread.

Leafs can't rely on the skills competition in the playoffs. The fact that the Leafs can't win in regulation and finish off their opponents in overtime is very alarming. I find it amusing how Leafs fans complain about their inability to win in regulation. But the minute you point out that the Leafs would be 11th without shootouts and OT loser points and that the Leafs can't be bailed out by shootouts in the playoffs, they start getting defensive.

I think the mindset is that let them get into the playoffs first, and then we'll cross that bridge when it comes.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think the point is being lost on people in this thread.

Leafs can't rely on the skills competition in the playoffs. The fact that the Leafs can't win in regulation and finish off their opponents in overtime is very alarming. I find it amusing how Leafs fans complain about their inability to win in regulation. But the minute you point out that the Leafs would be 11th without shootouts and OT loser points and that the Leafs can't be bailed out by shootouts in the playoffs, they start getting defensive.

I think the point is clear, but to complain that the Leafs are winning in the shootout is pretty irrelevant.

If we remove the shootout in the regular season and put OT, I think we'd be able to compete just fine. Heck in all the OT's we've played we dominated a lot of them, just not enough time for us to put one in as 5 minutes is fairly short. There's no way to know how well we would be doing if the point system was completely different.

I'm pretty sure the game plan is to win in regulation and the inability to close games is really alarming, there's no denying that... But that's completely different than saying that Detroit or New Jersey deserve it more because they can't win in the shootout. That's their problem, not ours. The system exists for a reason and to chose not to get the extra point is not our fault.

 

[Quarter]

I think the point is being lost on people in this thread.

Leafs can't rely on the skills competition in the playoffs. The fact that the Leafs can't win in regulation and finish off their opponents in overtime is very alarming. I find it amusing how Leafs fans complain about their inability to win in regulation. But the minute you point out that the Leafs would be 11th without shootouts and OT loser points and that the Leafs can't be bailed out by shootouts in the playoffs, they start getting defensive.

Correction: The Leafs can't finish off their opponents in the first 5 minutes of overtime. Which is fine, because overtime periods are 20 minutes long in the playoffs. Not 5.

Even if the shootout didn't exist we'd still have a winning record post-regulation. 2-1-13. Extend the overtime by 5 minutes and most of those ties would be decided.

 

[Mess]

Hockey is a Team sport and shootout is an Individual skills competition.

Leafs struggle at a team sport, but excel as individuals might help explain being outplayed and outshot so often.

Circus time shootouts are not a part of playoff hockey, so Leafs will need to win on merit at that point.

 

[dubey]

blah blah

It's part of the game so deal with it