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Confirmed with Link: Sheldon Keefe Fired -- Discussion Thread

hullsy47 said:
Just wondering if berube turned the leafs down
Maybe they wanna run it back
No good coaches will come into this shitshow
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Which is fair.

It will likely be terrible.

Sulky Marner riding out his contract. JT refusing Robidas island.
 
Fogelhund said:
Every coach was fired, after whatever winning record they'd previously had. How big is the list of coaches who have quit?
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Despite winning the cup, Berube has a losing record, not winning record, in the playoffs.

Does that sound like the sort of coach that is capable of coming in and helping a team that are perrenial playoff losers?
 
rumman said:
so, am I getting this correct, some here would rather have a coach that hasn't won a cup as opposed to a coach who has? If you want success shouldn't your coach have been successful in the past?
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There's different ways to measure success. "Winning a cup" isn't everything.

While I acknowledge that experience matters, I would counter that someone like Paul Maurice, who has never won a cup in his lifetime, is a FAR better coach than all the candidates the Leafs are sniffing around.

I think far too many people, yourself included, are getting way too hung up on "Berube has won a cup", and are completely ignoring the fact that there's no indications beyond that cup run (fueled heavily by an insanely hot goalie), that he's an actual good coach.

Randy Carlyle and Mike Babcock both won cups. Didn't make them good options in Toronto. Berube is Randy Carlyle.
 
Brian Lawton on first up this morning with some good insight into the Leafs and their hunt for a new coach. Gives his reasons why the Leafs have not been successful.
 
I see Berube is taking a page out of the Marner playbook.

Pimping himself for more money. Can't say I blame him. Everyone else on the team made sure to get theirs.

Keefe is still getting paid for another two years.

Berube seems like a reputation hire. If we're being perfectly honest that's all I know of him. It's not like I watch a lot of Blues games.

I have to rely on what I've read and the few stone cold facts I do know.

Namely Berube is a hard nosed coach who rode a hot goaltender to the Stanley Cup one year. For that he gets rewarded with the highest profile coaching gig on the worlds largest hockey stage. And money.

Lots and lots of money.
 
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Tak7 said:
Despite winning the cup, Berube has a losing record, not winning record, in the playoffs.

Does that sound like the sort of coach that is capable of coming in and helping a team that are perrenial playoff losers?
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I'm sorry, you're generally a smart guy, but this is a really really stupid comment. Just by virtue of how the playoffs work and basic math, unless you're always sweeping /winning in 5 when you win and going to 7 when you lose (like Colorado), you're probably gonna have a losing record or .500 record if you aren't making deep runs or winning the Cup every single year. Berube was 24-24 with the Blues, Bruce Cassidy who is last year's winning coach had a losing record with Boston despite going to the finals and losing in 7 (to Berube no less). Rod who everyone jerks off was 32-31 coming into these playoffs. Even Laviolette who has coached perennial playoff teams in his career and won a cup plus has two other finals appearances was 78-76 going into these playoffs.

Cooper, Bednar and DeBoer are pretty much the only guys who have actually coached for a number of years and have high playoff W-L ratios, and DeBoer has yet to win a Cup still while Colorado always gets eliminated in the second round outside of their one Cup run.
 
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Tak7 said:
Despite winning the cup, Berube has a losing record, not winning record, in the playoffs.

Does that sound like the sort of coach that is capable of coming in and helping a team that are perrenial playoff losers?
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2022 Lost in second round to Stanley Cup Champs - 6-6
2021 Lost in first round to Colorado... #1 ranked team in West. 0-4

The question is why is his record 27-31...and if he wins four games without losing, is he suddenly a great candidate?

Babcock had a winning playoff record, how did that work out for us?

Mike Sullivan has a winning record in the playoffs... does that make him someone more attractive for us?

Gallant is another candidate... he is 31-29... no cups... that's a winning record... does that 31-29 make him a vastly better coach than a 27-31 record?

Boucher has a winning playoff record... but then his teams only made the playoffs 2 of 6 years.
Boudreau has a losing record too.

The reality is, if you want an experienced NHL coach, with a cup win, who is available, the list is really short.

Travis Green just got hired by Ottawa, 0.588% in the playoffs... if we only could have hired him right?

Funny enough, when you look at active coaches... most of the ones near the top of the list in playoff win percentage, Cooper, Bednar, Brind'Amour, Knoblauch were rookie Head Coaches, and are still with their first team. But.. we absolutely have to have an experienced, Cup winning coach right? Because they are better right?

I'm not saying Berube is the right choice... but to say absolutely no, to a guy with a 27-31, because he's inferior to a guy with a 31-29 record... seems a bit odd at best.

Honestly, I'm not excited about any of this recycled garbage... The only guy out there, who would be a good coach, is likely Q, but then.... that's not an option, nor should it be.
 
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Fogelhund said:
2022 Lost in second round to Stanley Cup Champs - 6-6
2021 Lost in first round to Colorado... #1 ranked team in West. 0-4

The question is why is his record 27-31...and if he wins four games without losing, is he suddenly a great candidate?

Babcock had a winning playoff record, how did that work out for us?

Mike Sullivan has a winning record in the playoffs... does that make him someone more attractive for us?

Gallant is another candidate... he is 31-29... no cups... that's a winning record... does that 31-29 make him a vastly better coach than a 27-31 record?

Boucher has a winning playoff record... but then his teams only made the playoffs 2 of 6 years.
Boudreau has a losing record too.

The reality is, if you want an experienced NHL coach, with a cup win, who is available, the list is really short.

Travis Green just got hired by Ottawa, 0.588% in the playoffs... if we only could have hired him right?

Funny enough, when you look at active coaches... most of the ones near the top of the list in playoff win percentage, Cooper, Bednar, Brind'Amour, Knoblauch were rookie Head Coaches, and are still with their first team. But.. we absolutely have to have an experienced, Cup winning coach right? Because they are better right?

I'm not saying Berube is the right choice... but to say absolutely no, to a guy with a 27-31, because he's inferior to a guy with a 31-29 record... seems a bit odd at best.

Honestly, I'm not excited about any of this recycled garbage... The only guy out there, who would be a good coach, is likely Q, but then.... that's not an option, nor should it be.
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To add to this:

Rick Tocchet -- In 7 years between the Lightning and Arizona he made the playoffs one time. He was 1-4.

Paul Maurice was at 41 wins and 51 losses prior to joining the Panthers.

Like I get it -- some really don't like Berube. But the Leafs don't exactly have world class coaches to pick from and certainly can't just throw money at them. It's about timing and finding the right fit. Berube checks boxes that probably most others don't. You can say Gallant this Quenneville that Brind'Amour whatever but they have their own warts, some are way too big to even get into.

Removing Berube's cup win or dismissing his early work like he basically closed his eyes and did nothing is just not being objective. He might be the next Randy Carlyle, but so can Gallant or which ever dinosaur that you can get. Or you can get the next Maurice or Laviolette or whatever.
 
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SprDaVE said:
Or you can get the next Maurice or Laviolette or whatever.
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Maurice also has a playoff losing record, and has only made the playoffs 11 of 26 seasons.

Laviolette has a 0.521 playoff record, but missed the playoffs 8 seasons out of 22.

Everyone has their warts.
 
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Every coach is different in their best strengths also.
Some coaches are best with young rebuilding teams that need to develop their talent while others are better with teams that are pretty close but need that extra boost to get over the hump.

Hard task master type coaches usually have a shelf life of about 2-3 seasons before the players usually start tuning said coach out.
 
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Dale Hunter why has his name never been brought up ?
Maybe he is happy coaching in junior
 
horner said:
Dale Hunter why has his name never been brought up ?
Maybe he is happy coaching in junior
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His run with Washington was pretty awful and he seems content in staying in Junior. He's got carte blanche to do what he wants and gets paid a lot to do it.

Mark Hunter is apparently in the running for the Columbus GM job so maybe Dale can go there to coach?
 
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SprDaVE said:
To add to this:

Rick Tocchet -- In 7 years between the Lightning and Arizona he made the playoffs one time. He was 1-4.

Paul Maurice was at 41 wins and 51 losses prior to joining the Panthers.

Like I get it -- some really don't like Berube. But the Leafs don't exactly have world class coaches to pick from and certainly can't just throw money at them. It's about timing and finding the right fit. Berube checks boxes that probably most others don't. You can say Gallant this Quenneville that Brind'Amour whatever but they have their own warts, some are way too big to even get into.

Removing Berube's cup win or dismissing his early work like he basically closed his eyes and did nothing is just not being objective. He might be the next Randy Carlyle, but so can Gallant or which ever dinosaur that you can get. Or you can get the next Maurice or Laviolette or whatever.
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Also for the Carlyle comparison that a lot of people have brought up - Carlyle won a Cup with what is widely considered one of the top ~3-5 rosters to win a Cup since the lockout.

Berube won a Cup with a roster that would be closer to the bottom. I'm not saying he turned the current Ducks into a Cup winner, the Blues still had a deep team, but relative to other Cup winners, they were weaker on paper with no legit superstars.

Doesn't mean Berube will 100% be a fantastic coach here, but I do think you need to consider context and the Carlyle comparison is a lazy one.
 
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ToneDog said:
Listen closer to the end when they ask him about who would be best coach for Leafs.

www.tsn.ca

Lawton on Maurice's post-game comments, non-call on McAvoy's goal and Tocchet's growth as a coach

NHL Network analyst Brian Lawton joins the show to talk about Paul Maurice's post-game comments, whether the non-call on Charlie McAvoy's goal was the right one and Rick Tocchet's growth as a coach.
www.tsn.ca www.tsn.ca
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Good listen and very true in certain aspects. For a team that structured itself completely around 4 forwards, they never put the highest priority on drafting/developing D.
Even now, who are the best prospects in our system. How many D are ready to bust through?
 
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