Sheldon Keefe Discussion

[Faltorvo]

Is our goal to have leading scorers or to win hockey games?

you don't break something when it's getting the job done

atm , the vesey/JT/nylander line is doing it's job very well,,,, but you want to split it up?

just wow.

 

[Racer88]

Keefe is not afraid to shake things up, so hopefully he'll do the right thing with our lines starting tomorrow night.

Shaking it up is one thing but knowing what to do and how to utilize players to their best. He has not shown us that yet. I mean A 41 year old slow plodding player on the first line......WTF

 

[DarkKnight]

Keefe didn’t really have a normal camp to access his line ideas. Jumbo Joe on the top line was always going to fail imho, but it’s a process and I expect Keefe quickly adjusts. He can’t keep up and he sure as shit can’t play the minutes, so inserting replacements here and there just throws off the team balance.

Two games.

 

[disgruntleddave]

Brodie had a bad game. So did a lot of players. That's shouldn't (yet) invite calls to replace him, or them.

We have some other promising D who should get a shot on the third pair. We hope that there wasn't a promise that bogo will play every game, so they shy from switching things up here and there.

With Thorton I'm more concerned. It's been said that part of the sell they (Dubas? Shanny?) made to thorton is that he'll play with Matthews and Marner. So far there's nothing to suggest that he can be effective in that role.

My only concern about the lineup today is that they promised a vet to play there and they will take too long to abandon it if it continues to not work. The other roster flips and turns will happen.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Thornton is just too slow to be of any use and totally redundant with Spezza.

We're currently only seven quality forwards deep. The remaining five forwards are all guys who need powerplay time to be worth their roster spot and can't PK. So you're not only sinking two lines, but also special teams. We need actual bottom-six forwards that do bottom-six things.

Matthews should also stop passing up scoring chances to Marner, who can't even seem to hit the net. Be selfish and take the shot because it will actually go in.

 

[Pookie]

This is Keefe’s opportunity to show that he can adjust.

This is not a regular season in terms of playing all teams in the league.

This is a 7 team mini tournament with multiple games in multiple nights, often against the same opponent.

Can he, and the plethora of video and stats analysts this team has, figure out how to adjust to Ottawa tonight in order not to lose? Or does he just forge ahead with the same plan?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Keefe is not afraid to shake things up, so hopefully he'll do the right thing with our lines starting tomorrow night.

Yeah I think we'll see some changes for sure

 

[Apex Predator]

Tonight I would do

Mikhayev matthews marner
Vesey Tavares nylander
Robertson Kerfot hyman
Barabonov speeza Simmonds

give Thornton the night off.

I want to see if mikhayev can mesh with Matthews and marner before going back to Hyman. Robertson is not ready for top 6 yet. I would like to see barabonov with more ice time so we can see if there is more there.

Now the problem is cap space and taxi squad. I’m not sure we can do this line up and change up the d pairing at the same time.

 

[Mess]

Not exactly following this Thornton usage logic by Keefe.

He plays Jumbo Joe on the wing with Matthews and Marner to start games, but when Leafs fall behind he reduces Thornton's role and replaces him on that line with Hyman.

Thornton can't skate with Auston and Mitch and slows the overall line and attack down, and when it really needs to produce he is removed and TOI/g limited.

Why not simply play Hyman on that #1 line, and play Joe on the 3rd line C position regularly with Kerfoot and Mikheyev, and on occasion toss Joe out there with AM and MM to mix things up. This seems backwards to me how it currently is being deployed. IMO

At his age Joe is no longer a full time player nor #1 line material, but being played as one with less than optimal results.

 

[Dreakmur]

you don't break something when it's getting the job done

atm , the vesey/JT/nylander line is doing it's job very well,,,, but you want to split it up?

just wow.

Again, “the job” is winning games, not just putting up points.

I don’t want to break it up specifically. I want to win hockey games, and I think the best way to do that is to remake the lines

 

[ACC1224]

Not exactly following this Thornton usage logic by Keefe.

He plays Jumbo Joe on the wing with Matthews and Marner to start games, but when Leafs fall behind he reduces Thornton's role and replaces him on that line with Hyman.

Thornton can't skate with Auston and Mitch and slows the overall line and attack down, and when it really needs to produce he is removed and TOI/g limited.

Why not simply play Hyman on that #1 line, and play Joe on the 3rd line C position regularly with Kerfoot and Mikheyev, and on occasion toss Joe out there with AM and MM to mix things up. This seems backwards to me how it currently is being deployed. IMO

At his age Joe is no longer a full time player nor #1 line material, but being played as one with less than optimal results.

I think the vast majority here recognized that Thornton on the top line wasn’t going to work. It’s really the handful that feel Dubas/Keefe are infallible that were loving this idea. Thankfully the experiment if not over is on its last legs.

 

[therealkoho]

not that it matters, but certain LeaFlanders on a different site have already dangled the F word when it comes to Sheldon

FML LeaFlanders total maroons....it's 2 bloody games

 

[Menzinger]

I think the vast majority here recognized that Thornton on the top line wasn’t going to work. It’s really the handful that feel Dubas/Keefe are infallible that were loving this idea. Thankfully the experiment if not over is on its last legs.

I dont think being interested to see if Thornton would have chemistry with some of the younger stars on the team for a couple of games the same as thinking any coach/GM is infallible...

The first few games of this season, with no preseason games were always going to be used for a degree of experimentation. Id expect a few different things over the next couple games too.

In this case Thornton likely settles info a 3rd line role once things are figured out

 

[Martin Skoula]

IMO Thornton is a dry run for sheltering the last years of Tavares' contract on #1LW if his skating falls off. Luckily Tavares looks a lot younger than last year so far.

 

[lazyboy]

I do feel that there might be something more long term in mind with Jumbo Joe on the first line. If the leafs are to hold true to putting so much of their cap space into their top handful of players year after year they will always be in search of the next entry level contributor AND also guys willing to come to Toronto at the end of the careers on the 'cheap'.

Spezza did not get that warm fuzzy feeling with Babcock early on with little opportunity to contribute. Putting Joe on the #1 line (to start) may give him welcome home feeling with opportunity to succeed. Then slowly diminish his role for someone more worthy but knowing he could be a fall back plan on the #1 line because he has done it before. I'm not sure how much rope you can give these aging players for the opportunity to succeed on a shortened season but I do think it might be part of the long term process.

 

[killer1980]

Taking Hyman away from the guys that score proved to me Keefe has as much a clue as Dubas. Matthews is now forced to go get the puck and try to score. Hyman was the set up guy. Now, AM has no help. Marner is floating around counting his money and Thornton is collecting social security. Have no idea what the thought process is of this management team.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Simple stupid Keefe ... get willy some protection tonight ... sit Mitch for rest of game after first couple of shifts if he decides again he does not want to play ... ask your defense to each throw a hit on their 1st shift ... put whoever is going with Matty asap in game as he might start to give up ... start Soup ... play a simple defensive game tonight with 5 guys back to start and wait for a mistake

 

[Faltorvo]

Again, “the job” is winning games, not just putting up points.

I don’t want to break it up specifically. I want to win hockey games, and I think the best way to do that is to remake the lines

that line that you want to break up won us a game already and did the heaving lifting in this one

it's time to stop making excuses for the 22.5m tandem and hold them accountable for not doing their jobs

 

[nuck]

Someone tell me what Robertson replacing Barbarnov for 4 minutes a game does please. Robertson should be in the top 9. Spezza, Simmonds, and Thornton shouldn't be playing every game, especially giving Thornton 19 minutes a game.

I think the club has to be patient because the biggest issue is Freddy right now. This does seem like a good time to spot Robertson in for Jumbo IMO. There was never any intention for Joe to play every game.

 

[Pookie]

Keefe didn’t really have a normal camp to access his line ideas. Jumbo Joe on the top line was always going to fail imho, but it’s a process and I expect Keefe quickly adjusts. He can’t keep up and he sure as shit can’t play the minutes, so inserting replacements here and there just throws off the team balance.

Two games.

Two games or 3 points handed to opponents who also didn’t have time to assess lines.

The future isn’t written so any talk of where they finish is gibberish.

That said, it’s been a pretty disappointing last quarter of last season, disappointing series with CBJ and a disappointing start to the season. All with virtually the same core group of players.

that’s not up for debate. It’s exactly what it is. Disappointing.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

 

[Pookie]

amazing how they have fallen.

if you do the last 30 games, they drop to 15th.

 

[Menzinger]

Structurally the tonight's game was their best. Maintained total dominance of the puck and moved it well (minus a couple individual errors)

Called the timeout at the right time o calm things down as well

 

[dubplatepressure]

Structurally the tonight's game was their best. Maintained total dominance of the puck and moved it well (minus a couple individual errors)

Called the timeout at the right time o calm things down as well

Does that mean that Ottawa is way better than we thought? Or....?

 

[Zybalto]

amazing how they have fallen.

if you do the last 30 games, they drop to 15th.

Losing 3 of your top 6 dmen and 2 of your top 9 wingers for most of that time and goaltending ranked 30th in the league (31st 5v5) and they are still 15th in the league?

Thats one hell of a team. Kudos to Keefe!