Rumor: Shattenkirk for Krejci?

[Alan Ryan]

My guess is if Vesey signs, Boston trades Spooner+(+) for an extended Shattenkirk.

That's a great outcome for Boston.

 

[Trapper]

If the Bruins can agree to an extension for Shattenkirk plus sign Vesey, this isn't a bad deal.
Chara isn't getting younger and this fills a huge need.
Bruins still have a solid top 6:

Marchand...Bergeron...Pastrnak
Vesey...Backes...Hayes

Then a solid 3rd line with Spooner/Beleskey

Krug on one pair, Shattenkirk on the other.

 

[BlueDream]

That's a great outcome for Boston.

Agreed, and not so much anymore for St. Louis.

 

[Brendonhayden]

Correct me if I am wrong but teams are not allowed to talk to shatty or his agent until a trade is in place. I thought I read that the blues and oilers had a trade in place but because he would not sign it would not happen. I assume it was hall or eberle plus based on Larson trade. I may just be making this up.

 

[bluetuned]

Correct me if I am wrong but teams are not allowed to talk to shatty or his agent until a trade is in place. I thought I read that the blues and oilers had a trade in place but because he would not sign it would not happen. I assume it was hall or eberle plus based on Larson trade. I may just be making this up.

This is what's been reported, yeah. If Armstrong gets a trade in place then he will give Shattenkirk and his agent permission to speak with the other team about an extension. He's probably not free to talk to teams otherwise.

And yes, his unwillingness to extend in Edmonton likely prevented a Hall for Shattenkirk trade. The Blues beat writer speculated that Edmonton would have done a 1 for 1 with an extension in place, or Hall for an unsigned Shattenkirk if the Blues added other pieces (spitballing but they probably asked for Fabbri). Shattenkirk wasn't willing to extend, and the Blues weren't interested in adding, so nothing came of it.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Correct me if I am wrong but teams are not allowed to talk to shatty or his agent until a trade is in place. I thought I read that the blues and oilers had a trade in place but because he would not sign it would not happen. I assume it was hall or eberle plus based on Larson trade. I may just be making this up.

I don't have the link but it has been said that is the case. Shatty has permission to work out an extension with teams that he would be open to being traded to. Which is why it is annoying when fans of other teams torpedo interesting discussions with "1 year of Shattenkirk isn't worth such and such"

In negotiations, assume the negotiation is for an extended Shattenkirk is that is what all parties involved are interested in doing.

 

[varano]

Also adding, Krejci has an NTC to put in consideration. But perhaps thinking in the bigger picture.

Krejci was also close with Sobotka from their Providence days, perhaps part of luring them both to St. Louis.

I had no idea that sobotka was close to thirty until you said that...

 

[BruinDust]

Agreed, and not so much anymore for St. Louis.

Depends on the ++ I would think.

Blues fans have to face the fact that Shattenkirk isn't going to bring back an equivalent forward in the mold of a Jones-Johansen trade or Hall-Larsson trade.

Guys his age bring back "packages" of assets. I think Armstrong became a lot less interested in packages once Backes and Brouwer signed elsewhere. He might be waiting a long time if he's trying to get back a comparable forward in terms of age and contract status, even longer if he wants someone younger.

St. Louis have the Sobotka thing to resolve. Boston will want to see if they can get Vesey which opens up options for them.

 

[Frenzy31]

Depends on the ++ I would think.

Blues fans have to face the fact that Shattenkirk isn't going to bring back an equivalent forward in the mold of a Jones-Johansen trade or Hall-Larsson trade.

Guys his age bring back "packages" of assets. I think Armstrong became a lot less interested in packages once Backes and Brouwer signed elsewhere. He might be waiting a long time if he's trying to get back a comparable forward in terms of age and contract status, even longer if he wants someone younger.

St. Louis have the Sobotka thing to resolve. Boston will want to see if they can get Vesey which opens up options for them.

His is Age: As in someone entering his Prime..... No offense that is a bad argument.

Here is the issue: The deal needs to make the Blues a better team now or a better team in the future. A bunch of MEH stuff does neither. That doesn't make us better in either case. At that point the trade only benefits Boston - so why do that?

We are better off at that point keeping him and trying to make another run at the playoffs - at least try to get to the 2nd round. It is better for both young players (experience) and for the owner ($$$$). Take a season to see if CP can make a transition to LHD - in which case you keep Shatty and expose Jaybo to expansion. Time doesn't hurt the Blues.

Spooner while he had a great year, doesn't add much to the C position - especially when you look at SIZE. The loss of Backes and Brouwer hurts in that area - we really need Jaskin to step up to fill Brouwer's shoes, but the team's identity will be very interesting this year.

Look I get it. Boston fans don't want to get rid of DK, but Blues fans aren't going to accept a bunch of B level crap for Shatty either. Worst case scenario we keep him for another run and trade his rights in the summer. (Blues would treat him as a UFA rental addition w/o spending any assets).

 

[BruinDust]

His is Age: As in someone entering his Prime..... No offense that is a bad argument.

Here is the issue: The deal needs to make the Blues a better team now or a better team in the future. A bunch of MEH stuff does neither. That doesn't make us better in either case. At that point the trade only benefits Boston - so why do that?

We are better off at that point keeping him and trying to make another run at the playoffs - at least try to get to the 2nd round. It is better for both young players (experience) and for the owner ($$$$). Take a season to see if CP can make a transition to LHD - in which case you keep Shatty and expose Jaybo to expansion. Time doesn't hurt the Blues.

Spooner while he had a great year, doesn't add much to the C position - especially when you look at SIZE. The loss of Backes and Brouwer hurts in that area - we really need Jaskin to step up to fill Brouwer's shoes, but the team's identity will be very interesting this year.

Look I get it. Boston fans don't want to get rid of DK, but Blues fans aren't going to accept a bunch of B level crap for Shatty either. Worst case scenario we keep him for another run and trade his rights in the summer. (Blues would treat him as a UFA rental addition w/o spending any assets).

It's completely valid, he'll be 28 next January. Like it or not big difference between an 28 year old and a 22-23 year old when making these trades. 4-5 years is a life-time in today's game.

I agree your probably better off keeping him, which is likely how it goes down until at least next March. Like you said time is on the Blues side.

Spooner doesn't help you much in the C area I agree. If you get Sobotka back your team is OK up the middle. He'd make a better winger anyways IMO.

No one is saying the Blues need to accept B-level crap as you put it. But your not getting an equivalent forward back if they intend to deal him before the start of the season. But your likely looking at the "star player special", a young NHL level player + a very good prospect + 1st rounder as the best return you can hope for.

My prediction if I want to be honest, Blues hold onto him and deal his rights for a 4th or 5th rounder next June.

 

[Frenzy31]

It's completely valid, he'll be 28 next January. Like it or not big difference between an 28 year old and a 22-23 year old when making these trades. 4-5 years is a life-time in today's game.

I agree your probably better off keeping him, which is likely how it goes down until at least next March. Like you said time is on the Blues side.

Spooner doesn't help you much in the C area I agree. If you get Sobotka back your team is OK up the middle. He'd make a better winger anyways IMO.

No one is saying the Blues need to accept B-level crap as you put it. But your not getting an equivalent forward back if they intend to deal him before the start of the season. But your likely looking at the "star player special", a young NHL level player + a very good prospect + 1st rounder as the best return you can hope for.

My prediction if I want to be honest, Blues hold onto him and deal his rights for a 4th or 5th rounder next June.

That is very valid expectation and one most of us Blues fans are expecting - if he is traded at all. 1 for 1 would be great, but it just isn't very likely and most Blues fans understand that.

DK would be an excellent return, but I agree - I am not sure Shatty makes the Bruins better overall if they have to pull DK out of the line up. Seems like creating a hole to fill one. As I stated earlier, putting DK's name out there was very odd to me and not something Bucchi needed to do. I think if DK was the basis for the deal, it would already have been completed.

I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved in June for 4th or 5th either.

 

[wintersej]

From 2013-2016. All per 60 minute states are minimum 3000 minutes. I, personally, don't think these two guys are much different. Player A is better offensively at evens, Player B on the PP. In the end, it evens up in their total numbers. Both get heavy offensive zone starts, and both do very well in Corsi and Goals Allowed in that role.

Player A:
5 on 5
Minutes: 3672 (52nd in NHL amongst D)
Offensive Zone Start%: 38.8 (3rd)
Corsi %: 53.0% (20th)
Points: 60 (20th)
Goals: 19 (10th)
P/60: 0.98 (18th)
G/60: 0.31 (11th)
Goals Allowed/60: 1.83 (8th)

All Situations
Minutes: 4661 (61st)
Points: 124 (20th)
Goals: 30 (20th)
P/60: 1.60 (12th)
G/60: 0.39 (21st)


Player B:
5 on 5
Minutes: 3354 (83rd)
Offensive Zone Start%: 36.2 (8th)
Corsi %: 53.9 (11th)
Points: 44 (64th)
Goals: 12 (52nd)
P/60: 0.79 (44th)
G/60: 0.21 (40th)
Goals Allowed/60: 2.02 (30th)

All Situations
Minutes: 4543 (66th)
Points: 133 (17th)
Goals: 32 (13th)
P/60: 1.76 (6th)
G/60: 0.42 (12th)

 

[bleedblue1223]

If you want to compare Shattenkirk and Krug, also include PP stats. Shattenkirk is statistically the best PPQB in the league.

 

[wintersej]

If you want to compare Shattenkirk and Krug, also include PP stats. Shattenkirk is statistically the best PPQB in the league.

Thats what the all situations stats are for????

 

[wintersej]

Or are you suggesting that Shattenkirk is a PP specialist and only his PP stats should be listed?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Thats what the all situations stats are for????

It's factored into that, but doesn't show the complete picture.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Or are you suggesting that Shattenkirk is a PP specialist and only his PP stats should be listed?

I'm saying all their stats should be listed if you want to start to break them out. His splits are comparable to Backstrom's and Giroux's among the forwards.

You might not mean to, but the way it's framed, people will think the 5 v 5 player is superior.

 

[wintersej]

I'm saying all their stats should be listed if you want to start to break them out. His splits are comparable to Backstrom's and Giroux's among the forwards.

You might not mean to, but the way it's framed, people will think the 5 v 5 player is superior.

I don't think Krug is superior, and in my comments I tried to frame it as Krug better at 5 on 5 and Shatty better on the PP and it all evening out.

But, I also think that if a Bruins fan went on the main board and suggested Krug for a #1C he would be called an idiot, and I don't think Krug and Shattenkirk are THAT far apart in talent.

Shattenkirk is right handed and has a couple inches on Krug. While it doesn't show in the goals against, I think he is better defensively than Krug. He also is older and will be more expensive.

edit: for those that didn't figure it out, player A is Krug and player B is Shattenkirk.

 

[SPV]

I guess I buy that Krug & Shattenkirk are closer than it appears on paper; but that doesn't take away from the fact that Shattenkirk is a big upgrade on defense for us.

Assuming we end up with Vesey; I'd do the Krejci trade with a promised extension and expanded to take some salary back. St. Louis can add Ty Rattie, and could throw in Joe Morrow for good measure.

Krejci & Morrow
for
Shattenkirk (signed), Berglund, and Rattie


edit: Would Lehtera be a better option for either team instead of Berglund??

 

[bleedblue1223]

Lehtera would be a better option for St. Louis, but probably not for Boston with their future cap situation.

 

[kimzey59]

I guess I buy that Krug & Shattenkirk are closer than it appears on paper; but that doesn't take away from the fact that Shattenkirk is a big upgrade on defense for us.

Assuming we end up with Vesey; I'd do the Krejci trade with a promised extension and expanded to take some salary back. St. Louis can add Ty Rattie, and could throw in Joe Morrow for good measure.

Krejci & Morrow
for
Shattenkirk (signed), Berglund, and Rattie


edit: Would Lehtera be a better option for either team instead of Berglund??

1- Lehtera would be much better for the Blues.
I don't know that Boston would like it though. He's just entering the first year of a 3 year contract at 4.75 mil.

If we got Krejci, Lehtera would be relegated to the 3rd line and that is a LOT of money for a 3rd liner. And it especially complicates things with Sobotka. Sobi's main attribute is his FO ability, and Lehtera is a good FO man in his own rights. It doesn't make any sense having two FO specialists on the same line, especially when they both shoot from the same side.

For Boston; he would give you guys a bit of a safety net for Spooner, but that contract might muddy things up with Marchand, Spooner and Pastrnak. That might be a situation you guys are comfortable navigating with all the young bodies coming up, but from my POV Berglund would be more highly sought after.

2- I know we may have to take a little salary back to even things up Cap wise, but Morrow just really doesn't entice me. Furthermore, If we're adding Rattie we'd much prefer to get a depth forward in return. Rattie is slated to be one of our first injury callups and I think we're going to need the depth. JMO but I think somebody like Randall or Rinaldo would have more value to us than your low end D men.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

1- Lehtera would be much better for the Blues.
I don't know that Boston would like it though. He's just entering the first year of a 3 year contract at 4.75 mil.

If we got Krejci, Lehtera would be relegated to the 3rd line and that is a LOT of money for a 3rd liner. And it especially complicates things with Sobotka. Sobi's main attribute is his FO ability, and Lehtera is a good FO man in his own rights. It doesn't make any sense having two FO specialists on the same line, especially when they both shoot from the same side.

For Boston; he would give you guys a bit of a safety net for Spooner, but that contract might muddy things up with Marchand, Spooner and Pastrnak. That might be a situation you guys are comfortable navigating with all the young bodies coming up, but from my POV Berglund would be more highly sought after.

2- I know we may have to take a little salary back to even things up Cap wise, but Morrow just really doesn't entice me. Furthermore, If we're adding Rattie we'd much prefer to get a depth forward in return. Rattie is slated to be one of our first injury callups and I think we're going to need the depth. JMO but I think somebody like Randall or Rinaldo would have more value to us than your low end D men.

You can take Rinaldo....

No takesies backsies

 

[wintersej]

I guess I buy that Krug & Shattenkirk are closer than it appears on paper; but that doesn't take away from the fact that Shattenkirk is a big upgrade on defense for us.

Assuming we end up with Vesey; I'd do the Krejci trade with a promised extension and expanded to take some salary back. St. Louis can add Ty Rattie, and could throw in Joe Morrow for good measure.

Krejci & Morrow
for
Shattenkirk (signed), Berglund, and Rattie


edit: Would Lehtera be a better option for either team instead of Berglund??

Oh, I'm a huge proponent of getting Shattenkirk. I think having Krug and Shattenkirk both in your top 4 changes the whole dynamic of the defense in an extremely positive way. But, Shattenkirk isn't worth a #1C. And STL can't even make the trade without sending back salary in Berglund/Lehtera (who is my mind add negative value to the Bruins). So, in my mind, it would need to be Krejci for Shattenkirk + Berglund + another ATTRACTIVE asset. Not Rattie/Jaskin (although I do like Jaskin), but something really good. And don't see STL doing that (nor can I even think of what that would be). Nor do I see Krejci waiving regardless.

 

[bluetuned]

Oh, I'm a huge proponent of getting Shattenkirk. I think having Krug and Shattenkirk both in your top 4 changes the whole dynamic of the defense in an extremely positive way. But, Shattenkirk isn't worth a #1C. And STL can even make the trade without sending back salary in Berglund/Lehtera (who is my mind add negative value to the Bruins). So, in my mind, it would need to be Krejci for Shattenkirk + Berglund + another ATTRACTIVE asset. Not Rattie/Jaskin (although I do like Jaskin). And don't see STL doing that. Nor do I see Krejci waiving regardless.

Once Sobotka is added to the roster, the Blues can't take back a significantly larger salary. Sobotka's return is presumed, but I don't think anybody will be totally convinced until he's physically in camp in St. Louis. Either way, the Blues are operating under the assumption that he will return, and as such salary has to be pretty close to 1 for 1 in any deal. They can take back maybe 1M more than what they send out, but will likely want it to be closer to even so that they're not absolutely up against the cap.

 

[wintersej]

Once Sobotka is added to the roster, the Blues can't take back a significantly larger salary. Sobotka's return is presumed, but I don't think anybody will be totally convinced until he's physically in camp in St. Louis. Either way, the Blues are operating under the assumption that he will return, and as such salary has to be pretty close to 1 for 1 in any deal. They can take back maybe 1M more than what they send out, but will likely want it to be closer to even so that they're not absolutely up against the cap.

Yeah, that was a typo. Should have been "can't", which makes the rest of the message actually make sense.